jimmiboy
New Member
Thanks for the info
, at my level (total novice) where would I start trying to find a place on a racing yacht?
Best way to learn to sail
- Thread starter jimmiboy
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, at my level (total novice) where would I start trying to find a place on a racing yacht?merjan
Well-Known Member
I would contact the nearest club that has a series on. Their office will know how they do their "crew matching". At least they should pass on your "crew avaialble" notice to the owners at their club. You find lots of Facebook ads for the Solent from individual boats.Thanks for the info
Though you say you are by a lake, and I am not sure if you have any such clubs neary. Also most clubs run their races over the summer, so you might want to invest in training over the Winter and look into finding a boat to crew on during spring.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Ah, your timing is slightly off... I had someone pull out for this weekend, but I filled the spot last night.Thanks for the info
There is a facebook group called "Last minute crew wanted solent". It's basically where a good number of Solent based race boat gets crew when they're short. Join that and start messaging boats when you see opportunities that seem to suit you. Fair warning though, when I put an add out for 1 spot I generally get 10-12 replies at least, so don't get disheartened if it takes a while, simple maths suggests you'll have to sent 10 messages before you get on a boat.
In my experience, there are 2 types of race boat owner / crew boss. Those who will only take "rockstars" and those who are happy to take enthusiastic newbies prepared to commit to the boat. I've made a bit of a habit of the latter over the years, which has worked well for us, you do need some experienced sailors if you want to be at the front, but to me being easy and fun to have on the boat and "turns up when they say they will" are bigger deals than "is a rockstar". I also think that a lot of the top boats don't do enough to encourage new people, but that's a subject for a different day....
So I offer a couple of tips.
1. Be absolutely honest about your experience. It isn't necessarily an issue that you are new to the sport, it is a much bigger issue if you claim you can do x if you can't.
2. Make it clear if you're looking for a 1 off spot, or to get on a boat and sail most of their events for the next couple of years.
3. When you do get on a boat, make it easy for you to be invited back. Make sure that you're clear on your role, and if new to it that someone has explained it to you clearly. If you're unsure about anything just ask. Not necessarily the skipper, maybe just the person next to you on the rail. Little things like helping with the packing up etc get noticed by all the crew, not just the owner. You'd be surprised how often people new to the boat just sit and watch the regulars packing up the boat at the end of the day instead of helping. Pretty easy way not to get invited back that....
4. If you say yes to an event, cancelling within the last 2 weeks or so is a big headache for the skipper. Sure, life happens, and sometimes something comes up that you simply have to do. An invite to a decent party is not one of those things if you want to really get into the sport though.
Most skippers will quietly ask their core crew their opinion of the newbie, and the opinions then are often more about the person mucking in and gelling with the team than how brilliantly they trimmed the jib.... But you'd be surprised how quickly you can go from newbie to core crew on a boat just by turning up when you say you will and being keen and willing to learn.
jimmiboy
New Member
Thanks so much for this advice.
oldbloke
Well-Known Member
I would be surprised if there aren't people at Rickmansworth who have yachts as well as dinghies, ask around.
While you are at Rickmansworth try and get a sail on one of the Classic 14s, it's the dinghy equivalent of a LeMans Bentley
While you are at Rickmansworth try and get a sail on one of the Classic 14s, it's the dinghy equivalent of a LeMans Bentley
KompetentKrew
Well-Known Member
There are two Solent crewing groups on Facebook - one has "wanted" in the name, and the other "available". But you have to subscribe to both because people ignore the name and simply post to one or the other.
In 2018, I got a Dover to Solent delivery from these groups, then a Channel crossing, 3 weeks in Brittany and Faro to Gibraltar and back.
You need to build a bit of a CV and once you've got a couple of decent little trips with Phoenix, maybe your competent crew, then you'll be more readily accepted. A lot of the Phoenix lot are just into jollying around in the Solent - Gosport, Isle of Wight, Chichester and home on Sunday - but some of the skippers are up for trips to Dartmouth and such. The club has a good culture of mentoring and club-based training.
I did a mile-builder with www.sailracingacademy.org but I have no idea what their racing slots are like. It was quite a full boat, and I expect it usually is, so be prepared for one or two plonkers.
In 2018, I got a Dover to Solent delivery from these groups, then a Channel crossing, 3 weeks in Brittany and Faro to Gibraltar and back.
You need to build a bit of a CV and once you've got a couple of decent little trips with Phoenix, maybe your competent crew, then you'll be more readily accepted. A lot of the Phoenix lot are just into jollying around in the Solent - Gosport, Isle of Wight, Chichester and home on Sunday - but some of the skippers are up for trips to Dartmouth and such. The club has a good culture of mentoring and club-based training.
I did a mile-builder with www.sailracingacademy.org but I have no idea what their racing slots are like. It was quite a full boat, and I expect it usually is, so be prepared for one or two plonkers.
laika
Well-Known Member
Are these actually any cop for actually learning to sail (as the OP is wanting to do) as opposed to doing what it says on the tin for those working towards Yachtmaster etc.? They seem to be similar cost day-on-day to actual RYA courses, but how much you learn is probably going to depend on the skipper. When doing my zero-to-hero course we had a couple of these where they'd sold the last bunk on an already pretty packed boat to an additional punter who was "mile building". The instructor was a bit rubbish and without a syllabus to follow seemed to shirk any opportunity to actually teach. I'm sure a good instructor would take the opportunity of long passages to teach skills that maybe don't get covered so well in courses but I was just unlucky...
jimmiboy
New Member
I spoke to someone today about a zero to hero course. If I’m honest it seemed like she was giving me the hard sell. 16 weeks doesn’t seem like a long time to be a Yacht Master. How was it? Was it enjoyable or a bit of a slog? I don’t think it’s for me as I’m in no rush to get any qualifications I just want to enjoy the process as much as I can.
laika
Well-Known Member
This, unfortunately, is well worn territory for this forum. Everyone who was taught by their parent who was taught by their parent before them now piles in to say they once sailed with someone who'd done one of these courses and they were rubbish, ergo the concept is rubbish. I disagree. If done well and you're of the appropriate mindset, there's no better way to learn a lot in a short time. I chose to do mine, based in the solent, in the middle of winter. 16 weeks may not sound a lot but it is. you'll have 3-4 weeks of classroom stuff but then everything else is sailing in any and all weathers. If you work out how many actual sailing hours the average recreational sailor gets in a year you'll see that pretty much living and breathing sailing for 12 weeks is several years of "normal" experience with the additional benefit that "normal" people don't go out in a howling gale. A lot depends on the instructor though. I'd recommend going to somewhere big like UKSA where you get a range of instructors. A smaller place where you get stuck with one instructor may be great, but can, as I experienced, be rubbish. Usual forum comment: "these people come off these course thinking they know it all...". Well, no. Arrogant people are just arrogant: it doesn't make the course bad. Sensible people take these courses and use them as the base for further learning.
Yes it was a slog but given the stressfulness of it it was a fascinating study in group dynamics (which is precisely why I might one day be tempted to do the clipper race). Given the cost and time commitment though, this route is not for everyone
KompetentKrew
Well-Known Member
I didn't advocate them as a replacement for competent crew. Probably the Solent mile-builders are ok.
I think I paid about £10 or £20 a day (about 30 days) for a Southampton to Malta mile-builder with Sail Racing Academy. That was in 2018 and it looks like their prices have gone up a bit, but it was a very cheap way to clock up a couple of thousand miles of offshore passage making. For someone who doesn't have a boat, has to book holiday from work months in advance, they can pay £750 and cross Biscay with them. I think that's a good value way to buy the experience.
There are plenty of Solent schools which will sell you a 5-day Competent Crew course and then let you immediately do a 5-day Day Skipper course. In my opinion you still need a bunch more days on board to get you to the right level to actually skipper, depending on the size of the boat and your plans. It's not just about specific training, it's about building experience.
I think there are a lot of people on this forum who grew up with their families learning to sail - they have so many years of experience and so much knowledge that sailing has become "easy" for them and they don't appreciate how much there is to learn. I see now you made a similar comment about the structured learning of a Day Skipper course, so I somewhat share your views. On paper all you need is 10 days training to get Competent Crew, Day Skipper and ICC then you can buy a 40' boat (or larger) and sail it around the world. In practice I think a 10-day Day Skipper is fine for taking a 25' boat out around the Solent in the daytime, but you're probably still going to shit yourself the first time you get caught in a gale. But people on here say, 'oh, get a 40' boat as your first boat if that's what you want" and the way I did it was just a lot more time on board, the cheapest ways I could get it, to build experience first. And I still made a tonne of mistakes, so I do accept your argument in favour of more structured learning.
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capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Mrs S and I managed and eventually had our own sailing school for a lot of years. Our advice to all those new to yacht sailing was to try it out on a competent crew course. Its a structured teaching syllabus. It's not vital you learn it all in 5 days. Most people forget stuff very quickly anyway.
I reckon the most fundamental part of it is do you actually like sailing? Not everyone does. So for not a lot of outlay, you can get to the core of it all. No books to buy, no special clothing you may never wear again. It's your own personal test, no one can tell you otherwise.
Of course when you find you are happy at sea and not too prone to vomiting, you can climb the ladder with dinghies, racing, yadda yadda.
Good luck and I hope you get to enjoy being on the water!!
jimmiboy
New Member
Thank you to everyone that has taken the time to answer my question. As I suspected there isn’t a one size fits all answer. But thanks to you guys I have a lot more of an understanding of what’s out there and which route I’m going to take.
jandnrowe
Active Member
How about making a learning break of it with someone like these?
Sail On The Norfolk and Suffolk Broads With Eastwood Whelpton
It's only a couple of hours drive from Ricky.
I moor a cruiser nearby, and their fleet always looks well turned out and they're a friendly bunch.
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
Hi.
One thing you must accept is that if you live most places in England you will have to drive a few miles or so to your yacht in its mooring or marina and both will be expensive, and the number of ports moorings and marinas quite limited. From Rickmansworth the nearest sea is Maldon about 50 miles away or Harwich about 70 miles away. These are muddy tidal waters best suited to a shallow draft boat or even a bilge keeler. Both have relatively sheltered estuaries. We have chosen to have our boat 120 miles 2.5 hours away because we plan whole weeks or months. When we day sailed we had a mooring about 40 minutes away.
Obviously doing a Competent Crew Course is an ideal training, but one suggestion is try and do it in the waters where you might hope to keep your eventual boat so you have some idea about the real problems you might eventually encounter - running aground or the water departing are your risks, but not giant waves in the Bay of Biscay or massive tidal flows in the Bristol Channel
So think of what you might want to do in future and bias your instruction to that end. And finally if you do buy a yacht, find a nice friendly yacht club whose members will be delighted to advise and console as required.
