steve yates
Well-Known Member
I am singlehanding, and prob will be knackered
and hopefully won't be anywhere near hartland.
best timings round lands end and the lizard from the north?
- Thread starter steve yates
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I am singlehanding, and prob will be knackered
and hopefully won't be anywhere near hartland.steve yates
Well-Known Member
Where are the manacles? And great tips for the anchorages, thank you.
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
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jdc
Well-Known Member
The Manacles (Cornish: Maen Eglos, or Church Stones) are a group of rocks about 1/2 way between Lizard and Falmouth. My 'suggestion' about the inshore passage was tongue in cheek btw. You're welcome to the suggestions - serious this time - about anchorages on the E side of the Lizard peninsula; it's a wonderful cruising place in its own right.
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
jdc isn't joking when he said he was joking in his previous post.
Leave the Cardinal to port and go outside the Manacles. If you really want to try the inshore passage come back when you have time to prepare properly and aren't cold and tired.
Leave the Cardinal to port and go outside the Manacles. If you really want to try the inshore passage come back when you have time to prepare properly and aren't cold and tired.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
Naaa, I'll be happy to pass them on by on the outside, I just want to get the damn boat to essex
doug748
Well-Known Member
You can go inside the Runnel Stone as fisherman has suggested but enough local boats have hit it so if in any doubt on the day go outside the buoy.
The key reason I would keep well away from the Lizard is because of pots which are often under water in the tide.
I would not even toy with the idea, as a joke, of going inside the Manacles on passage.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
Yeah, pots will be a worry, as I will usually be sleaving and arriving in the dark now
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Not sure I’ve been round 100 times but I’ve been passed a fair few and I’ve never been 3 miles off either.
First time round Lands End I went outside everything.
Every time since, I’ve been inside Longships. It’s a very very easy bit of pilotage.
I might be pretty confident about taking inside passages but the only thing I go inside at the Manacles is the Manacles Easterly Cardinal. Usually only by a few boat lengths!
A lot of these inshore passages are easier if you check the depth vs danger. “No dangers outside the 20 metre contour” might be your conclusion and then allow for rise of tide and it cross checks that you are safe at a glance. This assumes you’ve got an echo sounder that reads off what the depth actually is....
fisherman
Well-Known Member
You won't find many pots within 2 miles of the lizard at this time of year, but there will be gear further off, more when the nets are out if tide below 5mts. Many more pots further east, in fact end on end to the Manacles. FYI the inside passage at the Manacles is not difficult. Keep St Anthony light on the Shark's Fin, the triangular rock projecting from Manacle point, as you pass Lowland Point, then at the Fin which you can pass within 50 yards, turn inshore, port, head for Pendennis Castle, for a quarter mile. In fact you can do the whole passage with the Castle on the fin unless dead low water springs and ground sea+ deep draft. It only really saves time if you are headed for Helford. Beware, the lifeboat slip mentioned above is at Kilcobben, to the E of Bass Point, not the one at Polpeor under the light.
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steve yates
Well-Known Member
Really useful stuff, not going to reach the boat in time to leave tonight now, and miderate gale forecast for fri, so wimping out and driving to essex for a couple of days to catch up at home. Will head over to wales on sat now and carry on from then.
Loads of really useful info here, thank you.
I suspect she wiuld be fine in f 6-7 on the quarter, but I'll be extremely tired, and im not sure tge autopilot would cope, even if it works. Looks like being a much easier time of it fir sake of a couple of days and can bank some sleep too.
Loads of really useful info here, thank you.
I suspect she wiuld be fine in f 6-7 on the quarter, but I'll be extremely tired, and im not sure tge autopilot would cope, even if it works. Looks like being a much easier time of it fir sake of a couple of days and can bank some sleep too.
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Dutch01527
Well-Known Member
I admire your b**** but I think the plan is wreckless for the following reasons from what you have said in your various posts (apologies if I have misunderstood the situation):
1) The boat is old and newish to you. You should anticipate major and minor failures such as engine, rigging, electrics, auto pilot, furler ect ect. You have already said that the steering is suspect and the autopilot unproven.
2) Even a good weather window at this time of year can change very quickly, force 4/5 forecast can become force 8 actual very easily.
3) There are very few safe bolt holes if the worst happens.
4) The effects of fatigue, cold and stress are magnified many times over by sailing solo on a new to you boat in unfamiliar waters.
One of the attractions of sailing is that we all make our own decisions and live or die by them and I would never presume to say don’t do it, that is your call. I would, however, respectfully suggest that you think about if your desire to get the boat home / save money is overriding prudent decision making. If it was me I would either:
1) ship the boat home from the Bristol Channel
2) leave it over winter in somewhere like Milford Haven, sail it there as much as I could and make the trip home in the new year when I had more confidence and experience in her and less chance of bad weather
3) as a absolute minimum, hire a very experienced local delivery skipper to accompany me at least as far as say Falmouth. I think that you might struggle to find one who agrees to make the trip on a largely untested older boat which tells it’s own story if I am correct.
1) The boat is old and newish to you. You should anticipate major and minor failures such as engine, rigging, electrics, auto pilot, furler ect ect. You have already said that the steering is suspect and the autopilot unproven.
2) Even a good weather window at this time of year can change very quickly, force 4/5 forecast can become force 8 actual very easily.
3) There are very few safe bolt holes if the worst happens.
4) The effects of fatigue, cold and stress are magnified many times over by sailing solo on a new to you boat in unfamiliar waters.
One of the attractions of sailing is that we all make our own decisions and live or die by them and I would never presume to say don’t do it, that is your call. I would, however, respectfully suggest that you think about if your desire to get the boat home / save money is overriding prudent decision making. If it was me I would either:
1) ship the boat home from the Bristol Channel
2) leave it over winter in somewhere like Milford Haven, sail it there as much as I could and make the trip home in the new year when I had more confidence and experience in her and less chance of bad weather
3) as a absolute minimum, hire a very experienced local delivery skipper to accompany me at least as far as say Falmouth. I think that you might struggle to find one who agrees to make the trip on a largely untested older boat which tells it’s own story if I am correct.
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Mataji
Well-Known Member
Well said. And prophetic!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you and the previous poster should read about Steve's previous exploits with this and his previous boat before commenting so negatively.
While I would not do what he is planning - I would also not have done what he did with his previous boat over the last couple of years.
As ever best to set your advice in the poster's context not your own.
bitbaltic
Well-Known Member
Agree with that in general; Steve has achieved feats with both his boats so far and I would not bet against him getting the window he needs for the south coast.
Toning down Dutch’s comments however, most experienced owners (including you and me) would not plan that trip at this time of year and I would worry that he has kicked the can a bit far down the road to the point where it could be challenging to go either to the south coast or up the Bristol Channel, if windows and daylight are short.
Mataji
Well-Known Member
I agree wholeheartedly. I remember Steve’s first posts on here and think his achievements since have been exceptional. However, a relatively unknown boat? See Steve’s latest post over in PBO.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
I appreciate that not everyone would do it, we all have our own comfort levels, but reckless I have to disagree with.
I take calculated risks, weighing what I know, what is logical, what I don't know, and what my options are. I am well aware of my inexperience in sailing, but it is balanced against my considerable experience in other hostile environments, far more dangerous. I ask a lot of questions here and am always happy to listen to the answers. I don't take them all as gospel, as sailing, like climbing, has a broad swathe of folk who operate at comfortable levels to themselves, but they are not necessarily the limits to others who have a higher tolerance of risk.
I am not sailing her to save money, that's daft, as someone said in a previous thread, trucking her is cheaper and quicker than farting around like this, spending money on food,diesel, berthing fees and hire cars, not to mention the time out of my business. I am doing it because I fancy the challenge, no more, no less. If it becomes unrealistic, I will truck her.
1) The boat is old, yes but not new to me now, I have sailed over a 1000 miles in her this year so far. She is bombproof.
I do anticipate failures, the reason she is in neyland is from an engine failure. I suspect it is because of low fuel levels and rough conditions in the race of skomer. But I had a diver check the prop and rudder for rope/pot lines as well in case.
I intended the trip down from neyland to dale as an engine test, after refuelling. Any problems would hopefully show up then and I would abort. Calculated.
If the autopilot didn't work, I would have diverted to Lundy, anchored for a sleep, then headed up the Bristol Channel to Cardiff and trucked her. Calculated.
If it worked and then failed later, then I would hand steer for the 20 hrs required, no big deal. I have done 17 hrs before, I know I can do it. I wouldn't do it by choice, hence heading up to Cardiff if it didn't work at all. Calculated.
The engine, the sails and the standing rigging are all brand new, in the last 4 years, probably much more reliable than many newer boats with older kit. If the curler fails, I can drop the Genoa and sail under main and mizzen. Or just motor, I have the range. Calculated.
The steering is stiffer than it should be, but it works, the emergency tiller is an excellent piece of kit and I have tested it, works perfectly. So there is a solution if the steering cables fail. Calculated.
2) mmm, this isn't really relevant, and not a speciality of the Bristol Channel, nor winter. It applies anywhere. However, I check a range of forecasts, I am fairly confident they will be in ballpark, and if not, I have a boat that can deal with it.
3) Now that is true, but not a reason not to go, or no one would sail this sea. I am not coastal hopping, but going straight for lands end, so have some sea room for most of it. If in doubt I would head further west to have room if anything went wrong.
4) the effects of cold and fatigue are what they are, I don't think they are magnified many times by a boat new to me, (which it is not now) or unfamiliar waters, tho it will certainly be ramped up a bit. But really, by definition of the way I sail, it is always new and unfamiliar waters, that is the point!
And, again, that is the challenge. I can certainly handle that.As for what you would do, well
1) quite agree, and is still an option.
2) quite agree, but wouldn't bother coming to sail at all, unless it was round lands end and points east
I have every confidence in her and no amount of day sails from Milford haven will give one the experience of a 100mile + sea passage.The best way to get experience there is to just do it
Better weather in the new year? Do you think so? I don't know anything about that, and would have thought it was all a bit of a lottery, but I do hope your right.
3) Naaaa, I did look into it, sure enough one guy wouldn't do it in my boat at that time of year
but I discounted it for price. Easier and cheaper to truck her, and I don't want another skipper on my boat So, as it happens, the engine was playing up before I even reached milford haven to refuel ( neyland fuel depot is closed on a Sunday! Wasn't expecting that!) so I am now in the marina there.
If I was reckless, I would fuel up, think I have plenty of wind and will be sailing and just go, relying on the engine working for a short period into newlyn harbour. But I already knew what I would do if the engine showed any signs of issues, which was come back to Milford haven and leave her here.
I have a really important hospital appointment for my partner on Thursday which I need to be around for, and depending on results, probably stick around for quite a while.
I could get her lifted out here in the next few days and transported, but it's too early to throw in the towel yet.
Assuming the engine problem is a simple fuel delivery issue, which I will test and come back too, she can sit here for a month, or two, or three while I attend to my girlfriend, and to my business. Then with no time pressure, if I get a weather window in the winter, I can come back and sail for lands end then. I might even persuade some idiot to crew
If it doesn't work out, I will lift and transport her. The cost in Milford is pretty much what I would be paying if I left her in Cumbria, January sometime will be the latest, if I can't sail by the end of then, she will come by truck to get the work done.
Then I will need to get her back to Cumbria, east coast maybe? Ah, but that is a different story entirely
By the way, Dutch, no offence taken, just felt I should respond to the reckless charge.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
Lol, those other posts weren't there when I started this essay!
Mataji
Well-Known Member
Long may your big jib draw.
fisherman
Well-Known Member
.....and apart from a bit of light/mod S wind on weds/thurs you have a good weather window for the week.
