Best time to shoot the Raz going South

[TonyS]

We normally aim for slack water but have never seen any action in the Raz going south. Last week it was a calm day with 85% coefficient and a Frenchman persuaded us to go with him leaving Camaret at high water. We had tide all the way to the Raz which although there were obvious overfalls close to the lighthouses, half a mile off it was smooth. We had a max of 9.3 kts (we were doing 6). The advantage was that the tide was with us to Penmarsh and then again with us into Benodet as it turned. It was the fastest trip we have made.
Do you ever get serious overfalls going South? For us there was no wind. I have to admit though that I have had a roller coaster ride going north at mid tide 85% coefficient, and wont do that again. What are your experiences.

 

[youen]

If the wind is with the tide ,so if you go south and the wind blow from the north it is not a problem if you arrive near the raz at or sometime after high water and so you can get the tide with you until Penmarch Point.But you must avoid to be wind against the tide in that case you need to be in the Raz at slack or one hour before to avoid overfalls

 

[Robin]

Tony we have been through in both directions at all states of the tide even on springs. The rough water patches are localised but a good start is to set wpts that avoid two shallowish (relatively) patches that are clearly shown on the charts. We have 4 wpts for the Raz passage, two are the entry/exit ones NE and SE of the Pointe De Raz itself and the other two mark our ideal ground track North/South (pretty well due N/S true) to go through. This track keeps us safely clear of La Vielle but with a strong stream going it is difficult to stay on as the currents sweep you away westwards, the track left on the plotter will show a big bulge however hard you try to stay on the track!

It can be rough and times to avoid if possible are wind against tide say if the wind is more than F4 but also take into account the swell height and direction (La Houle in the French forecasts). We went through once under power with no wind at all all the way from Concarneau headed for Morgat, but there was a hefty atlantic swell which I was photographing breaking on the lighthouse. I'd just handed the camera down below for SWMBO to put away when I saw the wave and yelled for her to hang on. In those days we had a half inflated Avon on the coachroof of our then W33 Ketch, the wave broke solid over the deck, was hardly stopped by the Avon, ripped the sprayhood apart along the bottom edge (it was getting on a bit) and poured a large amount of water down the hatch and SWMBO's neck. We didn't see another wave and motored on to Morgat wondering where the heck that one came from.

We have chickened out a couple of times with a NE 5/6 when headed north and dropped into St Evette anchorage outside Audierne and had another go at slack water, actually feeling rather soft as it was like a millpond.

If you do find it rough the key I think is to just slow right down if you can and just go with the flow letting the tide carry you through, we've done this many times in Alderney Race too.

Southbound never does seem as bad as northbound, but then that might be because we don't like going back! However we like to make the trip from Camaret to say Glenans or Benodet/Concarneau and the other way round in one go rather than stopping over at St Evette/Audierne and that makes it harder to time the Raz at slack. Then there is also my preference to go through the Touliget shortcut from Camaret in daylight, even though we have done it in thick fog with plotter and radar once when we had no option.

Have you seen these You Tube videos of the Raz?

Raz and PenMarc'h storm

Trouziard Passage

 

[TonyS]

Thanks Robin, I thought I might get a learned answer from you. I particularly noted your experience last year with the lifeboat and the video of the storm. I fully agree that North is worse than South but am not sure of the reasons still. It must be something to do with the swell, which often seems to come from the North West but may also be that the bottom is shallower on the North side. Anyway we had an excellent journey down using our usual hops and have had nearly a week in Benodet and now La Foret. We played golf yesterday in ideal conditions and the course was empty. I only hope this high pressure system lasts. Best wishes,

 

[jonjo]

Robin I will be heading down to SW Brittany in 3 weeks which for me means heading west of Treguier for the first time. I have gone down the Alderney Race F5-6 wind over tide and rated that experience as exciting, whereas last summer I went through the wrong bit of the Portland Bill Race at the wrong time and had a horrible time, e.g. I needed two life lines just to get from the helm to the cabin.

How do you rate the Raz and Chenal du Four relative to the Alderney Race or Portland Race?

 

[Robin]

All of the tide races have their moments and can never be taken for granted!

Alderney Race when headed south is relatively easy to time at slack water if starting from Cherbourg where there is a back eddy tide inshore to use to arrive off Cap De La Hague as the tide turns south. We have always managed to arrive more or less at the right time even going direct across Channel from Poole headed for St Peter Port. The Race is wide and the smoothest water is about 2/3rds across to Alderney from Cap De La Hague, the roughest in the third near to Cap De La Hague. Headed north from St Peter Port the tides (and marina sill if inside) dictate departure and therefore arrival at the Race when it is all shook up, again roughest near to Cap De La Hague. We went through once with NE6/7 (don't ask) going north, it was not nice, we lost a spinnaker pole overboard (didn't notice it go!) but two fisherman lost their lives when their boat broke up. We went through whilst the search aircraft and lifeboats were overhead looking for them.

Portland is nasty but has the advantage of being avoidable with a way out offered if needs be by going well offshore. That said we have been through under power going eastbound when it really wasn't nice at all in the inshore passage but then it wasn't slack just big springs.

Chenal Du Four is a bit different as it is a long Solent like channel and starts with a wide gap funnelling as you go south. There are several places it can kick up with long bits in between that are very ordinary. Swell is a big factor at the north end particularly off the Four light and it can be very spectacular braking over the rocks off Portsall (Amoco Cadiz some of us are old enough to remember went on these rocks). Into the Four the swell dies under the lee of Ushant, there is a short roughish bit off Platresse otherwise not much until around Grande Vinotiere beacon and then at the very bottom off Pointe St Mathieu. It is even possible to go through with a foul tide or at least to start with except maybe at springs when it would be masochistic.

The Raz is something else. The gap it runs through is narrower than Alderney and there is the addition of tide streams meeting back eddies AND it is exposed again to Atlantic swells. There is often an added complication of fog appearing unexpectedly as the tide turns and cold waters are pumped up to the surface. See my earlier comments but aside from the obvious strong wind over tide situations we would normally make our plans to pass through at a time suitable for when we can/wish to start off or arrive at our destination, whilst passing the Raz with a favourable tide. The short cut out of Cameret through the Toulinget Passage saves many miles but isn't lit. It is wide enough but doesn't look it initially because of the angle of approach until you get there and radar sees it as fairly solid too until it suddenly opens up. We have been through northbound in thick fog (didn't see either side) using plotter with trusted waypoints and radar but we had passed many times before, not recommended for a first time! Anyway from choice I prefer to leave Camaret with some daylight or expected daylight by the time of the Toulinget, it is then around 14mls I think to the Raz so that might conflict with arriving at slack water. Actually I don't think I've ever seen 'slack' water in the Raz, because it turns at different times at different points so 'slack' is a relative term! Once through the Raz the streams are not huge until Pointe De Penmarc'h and even that is passable with a foul tide and anyway if fair to there it will most likely be foul once headed east to Benodet/Glenans/Concarneau. Tides south of there can largely be ignored and one of South Brittany joys is no early tide driven starts!

Going homewards along the North Brittany coast be aware of the corner around Le Four Light and keep offshore a bit more if there is a big swell or it is windy. We use an offshore wpt for the Four from Dartmouth on the light sectors) and an inshore one for going round the corner to L'Aberwrac'h, with a swell we might split the difference between them but then the French seem much less concerned!

Also going homeward along the North Brittany coast be very aware of more rough water off Isle De Batz, an extra mile off here makes for a lot more comfort! If headed direct for say St Peter Port from L'Aberwrac'h this will not be an issue but if you plan to use Trebeurden, Perros or Treguier it will. Also for this leg from L'Aberwac'h there is a back eddy (or slackish) tide starting east inshore about 2hrs before the main Channel tide turns which combined with the tides getting later as you go east gives you an 8hr slot to get where you are going. We usually do L'Aberwac'h to Perros like this, occasionally Treguier and rarely Trebeurden which I find boring and expensive.

Sorry for information overload!

 

[Robin]

Hi Tony, Golf De Cournouaille is nice, we played it once when in La Foret with rented clubs, no two of which were from the same set and 'woods' were just that - wood!

I think the Raz gets patches where the streams meet from different directions. There is a back eddy right in close to La Platte/La Vielle and the north going tides south of the point are running NW and north of it NE whilst on the point it is N except in the S going eddy! As you say throw in some shallower bits and a very rocky bottom and you have a recipe for rough!

Our lifeboat incident last year ironically was caused by a total LACK of wind and our engine losing all it's freshwater right on the start of the Raz and with a biggish swell. Our problem initially was not to miss the rocks because we couldn't have hit them if we tried with the tide taking us away SW, it was when we were though and an hour later the tide turning northbound and towards the rocks that we needed outside help! We didn't call the Lifeboat either but the big (BIG) fishing boat that pulled us out of the tide into Audierne Bay did unknown to us, total bill 850 Euros! Can't grumble though as they couldn't have been nicer or more helpful and even got an engineer to meet us in Audierne when they got us there.

We will be leaving Poole around 25/7 this year so there sometime around end July I guess.