Best oil.

[Quandary]

Ego trip

All cut and paste stuff, however laced with comments sadly lacking in objectivity, there is zero data to support comments regarding comments regarding TBN. Quoted conversation with Shell chemist who is not what one would expect from a chartered engineer, more like a couch engineer.

To understand this post you have to go back to one of the previous times lubricants were discussed on here, then there was a bit of 'polarization' between the poster and Vyv Cox, it seemed to irritate Latestarter at the time that most of the posters had more respect for Vyvs straightforward and intelligible advice than his self claimed expertise.
I still do.

 

[bigwow]

I still have about 20 galls of R40 in my shed, wonder if I can use that in my 2002's

 

[vyv_cox]

All cut and paste stuff

I wrote every word, except the tables, obviously.

I do my best not to advertise my ex employers and very rarely recommend their products only. However, since my expertise has been questioned once again, I was a lubricants adviser for Shell's rotating equipment department in The Hague for seven years and prior to that a member of the Lubricants team at Shell Research. It is no secret that I was originally trained as a metallurgist but for most of my career worked with lubricants specialists and chemists on a wide variety of machinery.

 

[Heckler]

To understand this post you have to go back to one of the previous times lubricants were discussed on here, then there was a bit of 'polarization' between the poster and Vyv Cox, it seemed to irritate Latestarter at the time that most of the posters had more respect for Vyvs straightforward and intelligible advice than his self claimed expertise.
I still do.

+1
late starter still hasnt got to the finishing post!
Stu

 

[Sans Bateau]

Thing is, Vyv's advice also makes sense! Old engine = old oil spec! Simplees.

 

[ccscott49]

I use LIDL oil, good stuff, semi synthetic, has all the correct api, eec, ad infinitum etc ratings and is fine in my marine diesels, diesel car and petrol motorbike!

 

[vyv_cox]

Thing is, Vyv's advice also makes sense! Old engine = old oil spec! Simplees.

API CC seems to be the oil of choice for thousands of canal boat users. Many of the big oil companies still make it and sell tons. Specialist companies like Morris Lubricants make much of their living from it. Are they all wrong? There are so many case histories on the web pointing out the error of using modern oils in old cars, trucks, boats, stationary engines, etc that I'm amazed anyone can doubt it.

Thanks for the support from all posters.

 

[prv]

API CC seems to be the oil of choice for thousands of canal boat users. Many of the big oil companies still make it and sell tons.

But presumably this is "older" than ideal for the typical yacht engine? Seems strange that there would be a gap of availability in between the old and the new.

Pete

 

[rosssavage]

My engine manual specs Volvo VDS 2, so that's what they get. I buy it in 20l drums from Hayes Truck and Bus centre at significant discount from the swindlers... Only difference is picture of a truck on the container, rather than a boat...

 

[ithet]

Low grade oil thread?

This should IMO be a permanent link on the forum, see below:

http://coxengineering.web.officelive.com/oil.aspx

Agreed, but what would be more usefull to us old engine bods is a permanent thread of where to currently get CD oil, or low TBN CE from - rather like the diesel price thread. Mr Cox could maybe add comments to any recomendation suitability?

 

[Spyro]

All cut and paste stuff, however laced with comments sadly lacking in objectivity, there is zero data to support comments regarding comments regarding TBN. Quoted conversation with Shell chemist who is not what one would expect from a chartered engineer, more like a couch engineer.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Agreed, but what would be more usefull to us old engine bods is a permanent thread of where to currently get CD oil, or low TBN CE from - rather like the diesel price thread. Mr Cox could maybe add comments to any recomendation suitability?

Agreed. My usual source (French supermarkets) have now stopped selling API CD. But I have not given up yet.

 

[RivalRedwing]

At the risk of offending the CD purists, this 15-40 mineral oil is pretty good value (if you buy 20L)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370531779631?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

It is to CI spec but also has CF rating

no links to the company etc...

 

[theoldsalt]

RivalRedwing,

That may be excellent oil and suitable for newer engines but I would certainly not put it in my engine for which API CC or equivalent is specified. I have a 25 year old Thornycroft T80 (Mitsubishi) and I have used Carlube Daytona for years which is very cheap and API CC.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Daft thing is, CC is available even at Halfords, in fact it is widely available, CF mineral is widely available, but no CD!!!

 

[RivalRedwing]

RivalRedwing,

That may be excellent oil and suitable for newer engines but I would certainly not put it in my engine for which API CC or equivalent is specified. I have a 25 year old Thornycroft T80 (Mitsubishi) and I have used Carlube Daytona for years which is very cheap and API CC.

fine, from the info you give, nor would I.

 

[Latestarter1]

RivalRedwing,

That may be excellent oil and suitable for newer engines but I would certainly not put it in my engine for which API CC or equivalent is specified. I have a 25 year old Thornycroft T80 (Mitsubishi) and I have used Carlube Daytona for years which is very cheap and API CC.

If you are happy just carry on..........

Just proves that little Japanese puddle jumpers are pretty insensitive to lubricants.

Looked at Carlube Daytona, B&Q sells at £11.98 for 5 liters (£2.36) Vs previous poster quoted £40.88 20 litres for Shell Rimula (30p/liter) less.

Carlube Daytona is middle of the road a 20W50 viscosity lube.

The Shell Rimula is a quality 15W40 viscosity lube.

Old Mitsubishi lube specs called for 10W40 CD which a few years later was updated to 15W40 CF4.

Whilst you are happy to dismiss RivalRedwing you have been paying top dollar for a middle of the road lube of the wrong viscosity for your motor.

Provided nobody tries to stretch their lube drain intervals on small Japanese engines just do what you feel comfortable with. Nasty old Bukh, and other such like thump thump motors may have own rules, they do have other uses now scrap price is high.

 

[reeac]

Thing is, Vyv's advice also makes sense! Old engine = old oil spec! Simplees.

Maybe for diesels but I've been using modern mineral oils in a 1958 MG [1953 engine design] since 1982 without any problem. Of course, the spec. has changed over the 29 years and I've changed from 20W50 to 15W40 as the former has become difficult to find without resorting to deliberately old fashioned oils which I don't favour.

 

[vyv_cox]

Agreed, but what would be more usefull to us old engine bods is a permanent thread of where to currently get CD oil, or low TBN CE from - rather like the diesel price thread. Mr Cox could maybe add comments to any recomendation suitability?

Sorry, it would be an impossible task for me to keep up to date with who sells what. Until very recently I bought from French supermarkets, so sorry to hear from Galadriel that they no longer stock it.

 

[Bilgediver]

When I change my oil at the end of the season I want to use the best I can buy. The engine is a Beta 50 and the manual specifies SAE 15W/40 API CF (CD or CE). Halfords, chandlers and the supermarkets seem to sell the same stuff in different containers. Is there somewhere to buy better quality oil?
Allan

The Beta and Nanni engine is based on a Kubota engine from Japan. The basic engine is based on a design which has seen many years service in the paddy fields of Japan powering mini tractors and powered ploughs(plows to those across the pond). Not particularly sophisticated and used to abuse!

These engines will quite happily run on Lo Tech MINERAL OIL . Nothing to do with quality just all about grade. The TBN question is a red herring in our applications and certainly TBN's of 16 . Blimey we didn t go that high on the big unless burning boiler fuel

The synthetic base oil and additives in the more expensive oils serve no purpose and in fact can accelerate liner bore glazing in lower powered engines.

This info is all included in Cox Eng though a certain amount of reading between the lines may be required

For Bukh,lower powered Volvo, Beta and Nanni I don t see any need to go for anything other than the Mineral Oil available in Tesco Asda Morrisons Halfords etc. It is perfectly adequate and best for the job.

If you have a mobo that you insist on running at max power and fitted with turbos then do not follow this advice You might need something better for the job but nothing to do with quality. Just have a different base oil and different additives to cope with the different running conditions.

Volvo used to sell a mineral oil at eye watering prices however I believe the main difference between it and supermarket oils was the inclusion of an anti rust additive . Possibly a benefit at layup.

The reason for frequent oil changes is to remove the water from condensation the products of combustion not collected by the filter and the fuel dilution from fuel pumps where the pump spill goes to the crankcase. To much fuel dilution and the engine. Which reduces the viscosity.