Best basic electronics for dinghy/mini-cruiser - GPS, VHF etc

[mrming]

Some nice thread drift here. Dan sails on a tight budget in a dinghy. He has struggled how to work out how to use his phone with apps. I admit I don't like tablets or mobiles although use both a bit. But on a budget surely no i pad in a waterproof case in a dinghy.... and I think a dose of cruising the Solent is prescribed before Dan crosses the channel

Luckily Dan had already got some good sensible advice from a number of people before someone waded in and started a row without reading the thread properly.

 

[Iain C]

No doubt the iFad is water resistant when encased within a waterproof plastic box

However I strongly disagree with suggestions, either explicit or implied, that a mobile telephone is in any way a substitute for a VHF radio. The notion is as absurd as it is dangerous.

Erm, you're really not helping yourself now are you. NEVER really on a mobile without a proper VHF. That's almost as daft as making out that's what people are actually advocating...

And FWIW the Nüud case on my iPad on the picture is not "encasing it in a waterproof plastic box". It's a bezel that fits around it, sealing the leaky bits. When you touch the screen, you are touching the actual screen...not a box, not a membrane, not a cover, you are touching the actual screen.

Whilst the solution might not be best for Dan's use...I can quite understand why he might want something AA powered...steaming in and making some pretty uninformed negative criticism of what is undoubtedly clever, reliable, and proven technology is not really adding anything useful to the discussion.

What exactly is the difference between an iPad in a case and a dedicated plotter? They both have delicate circuitry that needs protecting from the elements by design, they both are fairly reliable means of navigation that should always be backed up with a chart, an eyeball, knowledge and common sense, they are both capable of being upgraded and modifed, they both have disclaimers when you power them up, it's just that one of them can be used for planning and reference at home, and doesn't go "phut" if your 12v system dies...

 

[Ravi]

Some nice thread drift here. Dan sails on a tight budget in a dinghy. He has struggled how to work out how to use his phone with apps. I admit I don't like tablets or mobiles although use both a bit. But on a budget surely no i pad in a waterproof case in a dinghy.... and I think a dose of cruising the Solent is prescribed before Dan crosses the channel

My mistake. I misinterpreted 'ashore in France' to mean that Dan had sailed across there.

Mind you, I can't think of many better dinghies to do it in, than an Osprey - with the prerequisite 15 stone of beef hanging out on the wire!

 

[Seajet]

mrming,

don't know if you're referring to me; i have been following the thread from the outset, just chipped in with what I thought I knew of my chum's I-pad when that was discussed.

I never thought Dan would have such a tablet for a second, I know his approach and what he hopes to do quite well by now as we are both Osprey and dinghy cruising fans...

 

[mrming]

mrming,

don't know if you're referring to me; i have been following the thread from the outset, just chipped in with what I thought I knew of my chum's I-pad when that was discussed.

I never thought Dan would have such a tablet for a second, I know his approach and what he hopes to do quite well by now as we are both Osprey and dinghy cruising fans...

Not at all Seajet. More the comments re: mobile phones, VHFs and "iFads".

 

[elton]

I should have realised I'd be on dangerous ground criticising iFads

I maintain, relying upon such a toy for navigation is plain dim.

There are many people who believe a mobile phone will suffice for comms at sea, so I prefer to make quite clear the hazards of the practice, to the uninitiated.

 

[mrming]

I should have realised I'd be on dangerous ground criticising iFads

I maintain, relying upon such a toy for navigation is plain dim.

There are many people who believe a mobile phone will suffice for comms at sea, so I prefer to make quite clear the hazards of the practice, to the uninitiated.

Lets have some technical proof to back up your argument then.

Accepting that anyone worth their salt will have paper charts as a backup (and the skills to use them), and probably a simpler battery powered handheld GPS too, what is the reason that an iPad with a good chartplotter app, in a waterproof case is an inferior device to a dedicated 12V chart plotter?

What in your view, makes the iPad a "toy"?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I should have realised I'd be on dangerous ground criticising iFads

I maintain, relying upon such a toy for navigation is plain dim.

There are many people who believe a mobile phone will suffice for comms at sea, so I prefer to make quite clear the hazards of the practice, to the uninitiated.

Same toy that is certified for use in commercial airline cockpits for electronic charting! http://www.fokkerservices.com/iPad-EFB

 

[FairweatherDave]

Mr Ming
I am confused how you quote my post as inappropriate. I read it all before my first contribution and my second was purely to say that the OP asked about budget solutions in a dinghy. IanC Ravi and Mavanier's advice is all good and I can see it is obvious that in certain boats phones and tablets can be used, no problem. I've seen enough cracked screens on smart whatevers to think that a properly robust waterproof one is not that much of a budget option. Purpose handheld waterproof GPS off e bay is the appropriate budget option for cruising a wet dinghy.

 

[mrming]

Mr Ming
I am confused how you quote my post as inappropriate. I read it all before my first contribution and my second was purely to say that the OP asked about budget solutions in a dinghy. IanC Ravi and Mavanier's advice is all good and I can see it is obvious that in certain boats phones and tablets can be used, no problem. I've seen enough cracked screens on smart whatevers to think that a properly robust waterproof one is not that much of a budget option. Purpose handheld waterproof GPS off e bay is the appropriate budget option for cruising a wet dinghy.

Nothing against you either Dave. It's elton that's talking rollocks imo - should have named him in the first place - apologies.

Edit - also I agree with your suggestion although as Dan doesn't want to spend any money his phone with a GPS app is better than nothing and could get him out of a tight spot in a fog.

 

[elton]

Lets have some technical proof to back up your argument then.

Accepting that anyone worth their salt will have paper charts as a backup (and the skills to use them), and probably a simpler battery powered handheld GPS too, what is the reason that an iPad with a good chartplotter app, in a waterproof case is an inferior device to a dedicated 12V chart plotter?

What in your view, makes the iPad a "toy"?

It can't be charged inside a waterproof case. I don't know because I've never seen an iFad inside a waterproof case, but I wonder how the touch screen works?

 

[elton]

Same toy that is certified for use in commercial airline cockpits for electronic charting! http://www.fokkerservices.com/iPad-EFB

To the best of my knowledge, there's no water in an aircraft cockpit.

 

[mrming]

It can't be charged inside a waterproof case. I don't know because I've never seen an iFad inside a waterproof case, but I wonder how the touch screen works?

I already stated that was the main limitation. The case works like a gasket around the glass screen so you interact with the touch screen as normal. I pop mine on charge at the chart table when on longer trips - it's still totally useable there.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

To the best of my knowledge, there's no water in an aircraft cockpit.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I already stated that was the main limitation. The case works like a gasket around the glass screen so you interact with the touch screen as normal. I pop mine on charge at the chart table when on longer trips - it's still totally useable there.

Real world data: iPad 2 running imray charts and a bad elf external GPS runs for 9 hours with the screen on 3/4 brightness. On internal GPS it will run for about 11 hrs. Thats plenty of time between charging.

 

[Greenheart]

What a lot of claim and counter-claim! I'm glad to hear such breadth of opinion on the ups & downs of what is available, rather than a chandlery salesman's spiel. Thank you all.

Having learned to sail decades ago in dinghies and having back then foolishly commenced adventuring across miles of foggy Solent (from Chichester) without so much as a compass for guidance...and having then spent 20 years off ashore, the unimaginable leap forward which any GPS receiver permits, today still seems miraculous to me...

...so whether phone, tablet or dedicated device is really "best", if my indispensable phone can receive just basic lat. and long., that's great news. If it can also carry stored (rather than received) mapping, much better...and if indeed Navionics charting can be permanently downloaded to reliably display depths, sea-marks and my whereabouts, then I doubt I'll look much further with my present financial outlook, except for a waterproof casing. As Mr Ming says, it's much better than nothing, which is what I'm used to!

I nevertheless accept that for communications, it wouldn't be smart to dismiss VHF. I like the Uniden combined VHF/small screen GPS... http://ow.ly/t2nig ...but no price shown!

BTW - I love the Osprey. Surely there can't be a non keel boat more graceful through the water. There are a few on Kielder Water where I dinghy sail. I even owned one for long enough to improve my swimming. ;-) I am fascinated that it sounds like you are cruising across the channel in it. All the best.

Thank you kindly Ravi, but as was mentioned, I'm quite a few hours of practice yet, from a midsummer Ventnor-Barfleur dash. Although, it was done in Ospreys: http://ow.ly/t2iUv

 

[Iain C]

Dan

I think you've sussed it yourself...Navionics and similar have the charts installed as part of the app, so you can zoom right in and all the device needs is a GPS signal wherever you are on the planet and the position is displayed accurately. You just need to make sure that your downloaded chart covers the area you wish to sail in...however as mine stretches from the Scillies to Holland, I think that should cover it!

Google maps, and most land based mapping apps on phones, pull the map data down via WiFi/3G/4G/GPRS connection each time you use them, so yes, if you have no service, you are knackered. However the marine apps realise this issue and therefore don't rely on a connection to work.

However, I'm sure this is all just a dangerous fad and someone will be along soon with a nice reliable waterproof astrolabe to revolutionise navigation for the masses...

 

[Iain C]

Oh, and Dan, who is the dog on your avatar? I saw someone at Euston station yesterday with a T shirt printed with the very same character!

 

[JumbleDuck]

There are many people who believe a mobile phone will suffice for comms at sea, so I prefer to make quite clear the hazards of the practice, to the uninitiated.

Off the Solway coast there is good mobile phone coverage all the way across from Scotland to the Isle of Man. Coastguard VHF reception is patchy, in particular if one only has a low-powered low-down handheld as would be the norm in dinghies or dayboats. I'd say that anyone who thought that VHF made an acceptable replacement for a mobile phone there would be most unwise to do so.

 

[elton]

Off the Solway coast there is good mobile phone coverage all the way across from Scotland to the Isle of Man. Coastguard VHF reception is patchy, in particular if one only has a low-powered low-down handheld as would be the norm in dinghies or dayboats. I'd say that anyone who thought that VHF made an acceptable replacement for a mobile phone there would be most unwise to do so.

At sea, close to cliffs, there is usually no phone coverage, even if the signal is strong on land.

I was rescued only because my mayday was picked up by a drilling rig, well offshore, and relayed to RNLI. I'd be dead meat otherwise, so I have strong feeling on the matter.