mjcoon
Well-Known Member
Do you mean you do not know how to view lat/long (it may require a downloaded app as mrming says) or that you do but it never obtains a fix?
Mike.
Best basic electronics for dinghy/mini-cruiser - GPS, VHF etc
- Thread starter Greenheart
- Start date
Do you mean you do not know how to view lat/long (it may require a downloaded app as mrming says) or that you do but it never obtains a fix?
Mike.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I meant that the mapping facility on my phone (which was an application that came as standard) presumably uses some manner of GPS receiver...yet, if I'm anywhere where either the phone or internet signal is poor, the mapping just gives up and becomes a greenish blur, giving the phrase "cannot establish your location"...
...granted, I've never downloaded any applications so I've no idea what it might be able to do...but isn't it likely that the significant ability to calculate location through satellite triangulation, is inherent to the phone's hardware rather than a bit of downloadable programming? Hence, mine can't judge its whereabouts without a good ordinary phone/net signal.
I'll be pleased to find I'm wrong.
...granted, I've never downloaded any applications so I've no idea what it might be able to do...but isn't it likely that the significant ability to calculate location through satellite triangulation, is inherent to the phone's hardware rather than a bit of downloadable programming? Hence, mine can't judge its whereabouts without a good ordinary phone/net signal.
I'll be pleased to find I'm wrong.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
That's because it needs internet access to download the map in real time, the gps still works . If you want mapping , you need an app that already has map downloaded
mjcoon
Well-Known Member
Though there is also a thing called "AGPS" ("augmented", or something) by which the phone grabs some data on-line which helps it get a fix. An elderly Windows Mobile device of mine does this and then counts down three days after which it says the data is out of date and it wants to get a new one. The download is very quick.
Without it the GPS should still triangulate but the fix may take longer because the same data (which tells it where the satellites are in the sky) has to be acquired from the satellites themselves which can take longer. (The data rate is slow because of the low power.)
A trivial app (people like me write them as an exercise) may be needed to get co-ordinates from the built-in GPS and show them to you. Without that, or equivalent, you don't know whether the GPS is working or not!
Mike.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Typically if it can get only 2 satellites , otherwise if it can see 4 or more, the fix will be quicker. Useful in urban environments where much of the sky is blocked by buildings
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Thank you gents, that's pretty clear. Considering how little I demand from my phone compared to the innumerable, doubtfully-beneficial things I'm told it can do, I expect it has enough memory left over to keep some map/chart files permanently, as a frame of reference for showing the GPS arrow.
Dear me, I've had the thing for a couple of years, what else might it have done for me?
The trouble with "apps" (apart from the monkey one feels like, saying the word) is that there are far too many for a normal person to go searching through for a function which might actually make life better. 
Dear me, I've had the thing for a couple of years, what else might it have done for me?
The trouble with "apps" (apart from the monkey one feels like, saying the word) is that there are far too many for a normal person to go searching through for a function which might actually make life better. 
elton
Well-Known Member
Mention of iPads, eTrex and smartphones for offshore navigation, and words fail me
mrming
Well-Known Member
Thank you gents, that's pretty clear. Considering how little I demand from my phone compared to the innumerable, doubtfully-beneficial things I'm told it can do, I expect it has enough memory left over to keep some map/chart files permanently, as a frame of reference for showing the GPS arrow.
Dear me, I've had the thing for a couple of years, what else might it have done for me?
Nonetheless you have the GPS side of your needs already paid for and in your pocket - a reason to embrace apps if ever there was one.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Mention of...smartphones for offshore navigation, and words fail me
Why, sir? Earlier on this thread I was happily resigned to reverting to lead & line, compass and paper charts...I hope getting a bit of help from my old friend the phone, doesn't indicate abandonment of real sailing? If it wasn't so damned cloudy so often, I'd happily have bought a sextant instead. And a year's training in using it...
Nonetheless you have the GPS side of your needs already paid for and in your pocket - a reason to embrace apps if ever there was one.
Agreed, thank you. I'll report when I've been to the store for the...whatever it is? Which makes it work? Oh God, I bet I'm supposed to find it online...how embarrassing...no idea...
mrming
Well-Known Member
There should be an icon for the Google Play Store somewhere on your phone. Start there and Google for help if necessary.
elton
Well-Known Member
Phone isn't waterproof.Why, sir? Earlier on this thread I was happily resigned to reverting to lead & line, compass and paper charts...I hope getting a bit of help from my old friend the phone, doesn't indicate abandonment of real sailing? If it wasn't so damned cloudy so often, I'd happily have bought a sextant instead. And a year's training in using it...
Phone isn't sunlight viewable.
Phone is often useless as a phone offshore and doesn't broadcast. Totally useless if not dangerous.
iPad likewise. Clueless advice.
eTrex is designed for use on land. GPS 72 is designed for use at sea. Each have unique features supporting the target consumer.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Sincere thanks Mr Ming. I hope I won't spend the next month emptying my wallet to turn my phone into a John Lewis bar-code reader, Vulcan-Mongolian translator, etc...
You seem to be speaking some sense...but, if I had no seagoing high-tech, just compass & chart, and there's a haze developing which is bringing visibility down to under a mile...
...won't I be vastly better off if my water-vulnerable phone can give my position accurately & repeatedly as I progress? Sounds like a boon, assuming it's not relied upon in isolation.
Ravi
Well-Known Member
I have a cheap Sony Ericson Experia Active.
It IS Waterproof (and can take photos underwater if you want to prove it).
It IS Sunlight viewable.
It gets a phone reception further offshore than my VHF picks up land signals.
It is an old phone but you can get new Xperia, phones and tablets that do the same. Oh, it is also shockproof, has a barometer, a GPS and will act as a chart plotter with !cheap! maps downloaded. I believe it also plays games and will sends pictures of dolphins to those ashore.
I also have a Garmin GPS 72C ( handheld plotter). It is a marvellous piece of kit and I love it. It is Waterproof, floats and has a lovely interface. You can download courses from your PC and upload the tracks that you have sailed. Fabulous! Of course, every time I want up to date charts, or I want to sail in a different sea area, I need to pay Garmin four times as many £££s as my phone cost me.
Yes, marine plotters and equipment are (obviously) better for the job. But, IMHO, they do not justify the huge disparity in price.
The point of having a chart plotter on a dinghy? Well, after beating up a narrow channel, there is nothing better than sitting and purring (or despairing) over the tacking angles. Absolutely no use, perhaps, but strangle satisfying!
On a yacht, given the money, I would have a ruddy great chartplotter on the binnacle with the latest (expensive) map updates. But, compared to what you get from a tablet or phone, that is a lot of ££££s.
On the subject of VHFs.... I would always want one (on a yacht) that you can recharge on 12V but that can also take the usual AA batteries, in an emergency.
Rav.
davidaprice
Well-Known Member
Dan: your Samsung Galaxy S2 should be able to run Navionics Marine Europe, a chart-plotter app with built-in charts for the whole of Europe, available from the aforementioned Google Play Store. It's 35€ so not cheap (but much cheaper than a Garmin). I run it with no problems on my Samsung Galaxy S3 (though we use our Garmin 78s when actually sailing, since it can be running all the time and still last several full days of cruising before its batteries need changing). And Amazon sells lots of waterproof cases which would fit a Galaxy S2.
onesea
Well-Known Member
I could debate most of the points, personally if in a cruising dinghy and having a choice of the **** hitting hte fan with nothing more than:
1) A leadline and compass
2) A leadline compass and mobile phone
I know which I would choose, it might not have signal it might not give my GPS position, it might give me a light or reflective ish glass to signal like a mirror with.
I certainly do not see how they are dangerous except when within phone range and you might be using it an not watching for the lobster pot sandbank etc....
Obviously a dedicate waterproof GPS would be better with a DSC VHF, AIS (Class B of course), Wind speed devices, echo-sounder, small weather station for measuring humidity (incase of fog) a Laptop for tidal calcs and 32" television and surround sound would all be better.
PS Dan if you want you can use google maps on your phone download the maps and satellite image and use your phone of line on the GPS and navigate like that. I find it kind of useful on occasions, although some say this is totally dangerous.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
SWMBO has a Galaxy 2S but is far to precious about it it to take it out on the boat. It is great in the car as a satnav though. If the waterproof cases really are good (I have never used one) then pre-load the maps for where you are sailing and it will be useful onboard. Or download Navionics.
I initially mentioned a waterproof mobile meaning a simple old brick that I use for dinghy sailing. I mentioned it because, whilst I will often set out with that phone, my VHF, GPS, and a compass, invariably I only actually I end using one of the above devices... Guess which one...
I initially mentioned a waterproof mobile meaning a simple old brick that I use for dinghy sailing. I mentioned it because, whilst I will often set out with that phone, my VHF, GPS, and a compass, invariably I only actually I end using one of the above devices... Guess which one...
Buck Turgidson
Well-Known Member
I used an iPad with Imray charts and a solar charger as a standalone navigation system for a 1200nm trip from the Algarve to Azores. It was faultless. Zero electrical demand from the boat. Zero outage. SBAS all the way with <5m accuracy. It was also our primary long range wx source with the help of a simple SW radio receiver and a smart app to decode HF wx fax.
Say what you like but the fact is it works.
FairweatherDave
Well-Known Member
Dan
I'm with Elton. Yes a smartphone etc etc with GPS can do a job but surely it is completely wrong for cruising an Osprey. Take it by all means in a waterproof case as a back up but it is far too vulnerable for the type of sailing you are planning...... wet hands, plop onto the wet cockpit floor and into the bilges. Hand held GPS is the only way, put in your Waypoints into your GPS and put your charts away until you are back ashore,lunching at anchor.... If you want to be proper fit a compass to the boat on a bracket but on a budget get a waterproof handheld GPS and a cheapo walkers compass. I bought a handheld VHF same time as the GPS, I've barely used it and could have always used a phone instead...... of course they have their place but on a budget compared to the amount of use and pleasure from a GPS it is a no contest.
By the way you could simply play with your phone GPS on land and start to learn how to use GPS. Then it could be used in anger in emergencies at sea. However for navigating, ie keeping it switched on you will find you have drained the phone batteries very quickly, and you don't want to be opening up the back of your phone bobbing up and down. Equally you can take a tablet in the dry bag with your electronic charts, but that is where it must stay while you're sailing the Osprey.
I love my Garmin!
Dave
I'm with Elton. Yes a smartphone etc etc with GPS can do a job but surely it is completely wrong for cruising an Osprey. Take it by all means in a waterproof case as a back up but it is far too vulnerable for the type of sailing you are planning...... wet hands, plop onto the wet cockpit floor and into the bilges. Hand held GPS is the only way, put in your Waypoints into your GPS and put your charts away until you are back ashore,lunching at anchor.... If you want to be proper fit a compass to the boat on a bracket but on a budget get a waterproof handheld GPS and a cheapo walkers compass. I bought a handheld VHF same time as the GPS, I've barely used it and could have always used a phone instead...... of course they have their place but on a budget compared to the amount of use and pleasure from a GPS it is a no contest.
By the way you could simply play with your phone GPS on land and start to learn how to use GPS. Then it could be used in anger in emergencies at sea. However for navigating, ie keeping it switched on you will find you have drained the phone batteries very quickly, and you don't want to be opening up the back of your phone bobbing up and down. Equally you can take a tablet in the dry bag with your electronic charts, but that is where it must stay while you're sailing the Osprey.
I love my Garmin!
Dave
Iain C
Well-Known Member
iPhone is waterproof.
iPhone is sunlight viewable.
iPhone runs Navionics.
iPad is waterproof.
iPad is sunlight viewable.
iPad also runs Navionics.
OP was asking about electronics, not paper charts.
I never said they were any use for broadcast, in fact he would need a separate VHF regardless.
So before steaming in with "clueless" and "dangerous" perhaps read what the OP is asking about originally and also have some experience of using the devices. I would NEVER advocate carrying an iPhone instead of a chart, however my iPhone has been extremely useful in navigating the Newton Creek in the pitch black in my tender where a chart would have been pretty useles, and the iPad has confirmed that yes, I was still making way up the Beaulieu River (backed up by use of the Mk1 eyeball and withies and the fact that we were still sailing...) where my dedicated plotter at the chart table swore blind we were in the middle of a field. My iPad (lifeproof waterproof case and heavy duty Velcro mounted in the cockpit) was totally invaluable this year navigating some of the more "interesting" passages/channels around the CIs this year, and I regard mine as another invaluable source of information to help me decide where I am and where I'm going.
elton
Well-Known Member
Please enlighten me, which models of iPhone or iPad are waterproof? I've never seen one.
Neither have I seen a sunlight viewable iPad or iPhone. A photo would settle the disagreement.
I maintain a phone is totally useless offshore, no matter how close to land. Signal blind spots are everywhere. You don't know you're in one until you need to make a call.