Best 36-40ft cruiser-racers for... well... cruising

Trevelyan said:
... . I assume the uppers out there limits the extent to which an overlapping headsail can be used, which might have appealed for my brief of good light airs performance?
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A boat with a bigger overlapping headsail is not necessarily better for light winds. They generally have smaller mainsails than boats designed for blade jibs.
You need to look carefully at the numbers for sail area vs displacement. Also boats that are faster in light winds often have narrower beam at waterline level.
I am not an expert on the Jeanneau 39i but i dont believe these were intended as performance cruisers per se (unlike Sun Fast), just a new generation of cruiser (with different moulding method?) - though nothing wrong with that. But check the numbers vs other options.
 
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Trevelyan said:
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Here's the arrangement on the Jeanneau 39i.... so it looks like a conventional track, which terminates in line with the lowers, the upper shroud is then out on the gunwale. Ouch my head hurts (showing my lack of experience here!). So it sheets between uppers and lowers, upwind presumably is fine, downwind ?? . I assume the uppers out there limits the extent to which an overlapping headsail can be used, which might have appealed for my brief of good light airs performance?
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Almost certainly done to make it easier to walk forward as you can walk between the shrouds, rather than duck under the lowers.

A few years back I converted my old MGC27 to a full width spreader rig, moved the shrouds outbound to the hull.
Best decision I ever made, only ever felt underpowered when winds were below 7 knots.
 
dunedin said:
A boat with a bigger overlapping headsail is not necessarily better for light winds. They generally have smaller mainsails than boats designed for blade jibs.
You need to look carefully at the numbers for sail area vs displacement. Also boats that are faster in light winds often have narrower beam at waterline level.
I am not an expert on the Jeanneau 39i but i dont believe these were intended as performance cruisers per se (unlike Sun Fast), just a new generation of cruiser (with different moulding method?) - though nothing wrong with that. But check the numbers vs other options.
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The efficiency and ease of handling of the big main, blade jib rig outweighs the large overlap quite easily. That’s before you add a code 0. Most especially if you don’t have a spare crew to help the genoa round the front of the mast.
 
Here’s a light airs rig. Obviously the boat format helps, but it wouldn’t be a light airs flyer without, as flaming says, a high aspect rig. The actual area is not extreme for a 30 footer. The job shape is easier to maintain on a roller furler too. As a rig for a short handed boat, it’s hard to beat. I guess you could say an in mast main is easier. But that might be counter productive for light airs. We can sail perfectly well in 3kn. And will do so in preference to motoring 9 times out of 10.
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dunedin said:
A boat with a bigger overlapping headsail is not necessarily better for light winds. They generally have smaller mainsails than boats designed for blade jibs.
You need to look carefully at the numbers for sail area vs displacement. Also boats that are faster in light winds often have narrower beam at waterline level.
I am not an expert on the Jeanneau 39i but i dont believe these were intended as performance cruisers per se (unlike Sun Fast), just a new generation of cruiser (with different moulding method?) - though nothing wrong with that. But check the numbers vs
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Taking the example of say Hanse, these are fitted with big mains and self-tackers for real ease. They come with Genoa tracks too, so my assumption was (not based on any real expertise!) that if you wanted to improve performance particularly in light airs you would fit a larger Genoa. For the example of the sun odyssey 39i is this however prohibited by the shroud arrangement? Ie this puts me off vs more conventional rigging (although I’m not sure what percentage overlap headsails people do typically fit to Hanse…)
 
Trevelyan said:
Taking the example of say Hanse, these are fitted with big mains and self-tackers for real ease. They come with Genoa tracks too, so my assumption was (not based on any real expertise!) that if you wanted to improve performance particularly in light airs you would fit a larger Genoa. For the example of the sun odyssey 39i is this however prohibited by the shroud arrangement? Ie this puts me off vs more conventional rigging (although I’m not sure what percentage overlap headsails people do typically fit to Hanse…)
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I think even without the self tacker most modern Hanses would set only minimally overlapping jibs. Say 105%. Normally this is basically sheeted back to the swept back spreaders.
 
flaming said:
I think even without the self tacker most modern Hanses would set only minimally overlapping jibs. Say 105%. Normally this is basically sheeted back to the swept back spreaders.
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Same on my ten year old Benny Oceanis. 105% with the clew about 2mm off the shrouds when sheeted in hard.
 
Same with my Bavaria 33. The weakness of these rigs is offwind in light airs - up to 12-15 knots or so when an asymmetric earns its keep.

Suspect the headsail on the 39i might have more overlap as it was the generation before the move to less overlap and larger mains. The current equivalent SO380 has more than 50% in the main and a moulded in bowsprit to take code sails. Headsail sheeting is to the top of the coachroof rather than the deck.
 
I find the 105% jib / 50:50ish area split v main and jib a very flexible set up: It’s easily tacked / gybed short handed. Plus full jib can be carried (to be benefit of pointing ability v's a part rolled genny) up to 25kts (on my HR310 at least). Whilst the main is steadily reefed, without detriment to its shape, to keep her on her feet. Only weak point, as said, is off the wind in light airs. Where a Code 0 / Gennaker on a short sprit & furler conveniently fills the gap. And provides welcome ‘occupational therapy’ in otherwise less interesting conditions.

On my previous boat (Elan 31) I could set, and carried, both a 140% and a 105% genny. In practice I almost always rigged the 105%, for reasons of flexibility. Prefer current set up. For performance and handling.
 
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Tranona said:
Same with my Bavaria 33. The weakness of these rigs is offwind in light airs - up to 12-15 knots or so when an asymmetric earns its keep.

Suspect the headsail on the 39i might have more overlap as it was the generation before the move to less overlap and larger mains. The current equivalent SO380 has more than 50% in the main and a moulded in bowsprit to take code sails. Headsail sheeting is to the top of the coachroof rather than the deck.
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Having studied a bit harder you are indeed correct - the 39i headsail is something like 105% to 112% (dependent on where you read). The headsail sheets between the lowers (on the inside) and the uppers (on the outside). It has a removable bowsprit to take clever modern sails (you can see I have some learning to do). I am quite liking the 39i, but put off by concerns about the headsail sheeting and also read somewhere that they swing around a lot at anchor (....although all of the more modern still boats do that?). Does anyone have any experience of sailing them or comparison of say the Sun Odyssey 39i and a Hanse 371/370/375. The latter would be bit easier moorings-wise, but seems to be very much lacking in locker space....

Swings and roundabouts!
 
Trevelyan said:
Having studied a bit harder you are indeed correct - the 39i headsail is something like 105% to 112% (dependent on where you read). The headsail sheets between the lowers (on the inside) and the uppers (on the outside). It has a removable bowsprit to take clever modern sails (you can see I have some learning to do). I am quite liking the 39i, but put off by concerns about the headsail sheeting and also read somewhere that they swing around a lot at anchor (....although all of the more modern still boats do that?). Does anyone have any experience of sailing them or comparison of say the Sun Odyssey 39i and a Hanse 371/370/375. The latter would be bit easier moorings-wise, but seems to be very much lacking in locker space....

Swings and roundabouts!
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If you look at a drawing of the 39i vs something like the Hanse 371, you’ll see they have very similar underwater profiles and foil designs. I can’t imagine they’d behave hugely differently at anchor.
 
I see a couple of Dehler 39cws at very low prices. I think it is the open cockpit which makes them harder to sell. I put up a solar arch made of 4" aluminium and it is a great thing to lean against. When I took it down for road transport there was a different feeling to the boat. The crew stands hanging onto it and steers.

You need less than 12m for Med pricing system.
 
dgadee said:
I see a couple of Dehler 39cws at very low prices. I think it is the open cockpit which makes them harder to sell. I put up a solar arch made of 4" aluminium and it is a great thing to lean against. When I took it down for road transport there was a different feeling to the boat. The crew stands hanging onto it and steers.

You need less than 12m for Med pricing system.
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I'm not sure I could ever get my head around the cws's central winch/split cockpit arrangement. Also of the earlier Dehler's I've seen, they tend to carry the conventional smaller volume to the stern (smaller aft cabins and smaller cockpit).

On that note, I am really liking twin wheels (more spacious cockpit for when at anchor/accessing from stern, better geometry for 'lazy sailing light airs' sat on the gunwhales and for children - wheel reach and being able to see the headsails. Applying those criteria, I have Jeanneau 39i and some Hanse 375/400 models (it seems twin wheel was an optional extra). Grateful for any other suggestions please (being mindful that I am trying not to stray/stray too far into six figures - I appreciate twin wheels is more of a thing on modern boats)....
 
Trevelyan said:
I'm not sure I could ever get my head around the cws's central winch/split cockpit arrangement. Also of the earlier Dehler's I've seen, they tend to carry the conventional smaller volume to the stern (smaller aft cabins and smaller cockpit).

On that note, I am really liking twin wheels (more spacious cockpit for when at anchor/accessing from stern, better geometry for 'lazy sailing light airs' sat on the gunwhales and for children - wheel reach and being able to see the headsails. Applying those criteria, I have Jeanneau 39i and some Hanse 375/400 models (it seems twin wheel was an optional extra). Grateful for any other suggestions please (being mindful that I am trying not to stray/stray too far into six figures - I appreciate twin wheels is more of a thing on modern boats)....
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And huge master cabins with those wide sterns.

Clambering over pillows is certainly something I could do without. But I won't be taking the divider down between my two stern cabins, as some have.
 
Two wheels is great provided the plotter is mounted centrally and not behind wheel . Ideally you would find a vessel with a stern seat /locker behind the helm to sit on -some have nothing and can feel exposed plus not so comfortable to sit on -at 39feet this might be a hard ask but i just mention as a consideration for twin wheels. Also check you can sit up in bed in stern cabin without bashing head .
 
ashtead said:
Two wheels is great provided the plotter is mounted centrally and not behind wheel . Ideally you would find a vessel with a stern seat /locker behind the helm to sit on -some have nothing and can feel exposed plus not so comfortable to sit on -at 39feet this might be a hard ask but i just mention as a consideration for twin wheels. Also check you can sit up in bed in stern cabin without bashing head .
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I am a twin wheel convert. But whilst we do have seats behind the wheels, and an enclosed / lifting stern, we never use the seats behind the wheels. Only three modes - sitting on the side-deck to see the sails when sailing, standing for manoevering, autopilot on.
Agree a chart plotter mounted at back of central table works well.
 
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