Beneteau First lost her keel, four good men lost at sea.

[fergie_mac66]

Shattered windows

In the posts re last contact with CR I see no mention of shattered windows,and yet uscg mentions shattered windows . I really cannot see that the weather condition were bad enough to shatter windows nor can I see that the keel detaching and the boat turning over would shatter the windows . So guess we will never know whether CR hit something else after the turn to the Azores or whether something hit the CR .....

 

[haydude]

In the posts re last contact with CR I see no mention of shatterd windows,and yet uscg mentions shattered windows . I really cannot see that the weather condition were bad enough to shatter windows nor can I see that the keel detaching and the boat turning over would shatter the windows . So guess we will never know whether CR hit something else after the turn to the Azores or whether something hit the CR .

The shattered windows could be explained by debris (pans, floorboards) bobbing inside the boat and crashing around after the yacht capsized.

I agree that an assessment based just on pictures might be the best we could hope for. The USCG did not seem willing to salvage the yacht for further investigation. I hope they will eventually.

 

[E39mad]

Completely aggree with you.The keelbolts arrangement doesn't inspire confidence to me.Naval architects get it wrong ,usually with spectacular results.

And what arrangement is that? You can only see either end, not the middle arrangement, nor the stringer etc.

Why have people come to the conclusion that the design is the fault when we don't know the facts?

Maybe the keel has been off in the past and the bolts not torquered up correctly

Maybe previous grounding was not properly inspected

Maybe a ........

Again we do not know the facts

 

[Daydream believer]

I do not care if it is relevant but she could check out my nuts any day of the week !!!!

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I do not care if it is relevant but she could check out my nuts any day of the week !!!!

She would, happily. For a financial consideration.

 

[Daydream believer]

The fact that the boat is afloat suggests air trapped in the hull
Although there are several areas where air could be trapped one would expect that if a bolt pulled right out it would let some air out leading to the boat sinking
Air in cabins would find their way along drain holes etc in the bilges.The highest part of the upturned hull is where the bolts would be.
The section of glass cloth pulled away could have been stuck to the keel by sikaflex etc & not ripped out by parting bolts pulling through the hull
So does this suggest the bolts sheared rather than pull out?

 

[Daydream believer]

She would, happily. For a financial consideration.

I could take her for a sail in my First 40.7 if that would swing it

 

[iain789]

I do not care if it is relevant but she could check out my nuts any day of the week !!!!

Really???

 

[sailorman]

Really???

But, she is very experienced

 

[30boat]

And what arrangement is that? You can only see either end, not the middle arrangement, nor the stringer etc.

Why have people come to the conclusion that the design is the fault when we don't know the facts?

Maybe the keel has been off in the past and the bolts not torquered up correctly

Maybe previous grounding was not properly inspected

Maybe a ........

Again we do not know the facts

As far as I can see the bolts are not staggered.They appear to be inline.

 

[Aardee]

The shattered windows could be explained by debris (pans, floorboards) bobbing inside the boat and crashing around after the yacht capsized.

I agree that an assessment based just on pictures might be the best we could hope for. The USCG did not seem willing to salvage the yacht for further investigation. I hope they will eventually.

It's not a case of USCG's willingness, it's simply not their remit to salvage wrecks at sea. They're there to save lives.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

The fact that the boat is afloat suggests air trapped in the hull

To me, it suggests that the boat is at least partly made with a cored construction and/or has additional buoyancy built in

 

[fergie_mac66]

The shattered windows could be explained by debris (pans, floorboards) bobbing inside the boat and crashing around after the yacht capsized.

I agree that an assessment based just on pictures might be the best we could hope for. The USCG did not seem willing to salvage the yacht for further investigation. I hope they will eventually.

I dont know what the first's hull windows are off but I do know you cannot break 5mil polycarb with a sledge hammer I cannot see the first havin less than 8/ 10 mil acrilic or polycarb
unlikely to be glass but have you ever tried to break a toughend car winscreen, they were in an area with large shipping, distracted by looking for leaks,with thoughts of possible abandoment of vessel,not to mention planning a new route , a large ship on auto wouldnt even notice them and a sidewipe by a tanker or large cargo ship would produce and has produced in the past this scenario

Not wishing to impune any organisation but I'm not all together sure that all the shipping at sea would stop if they did notice. The possible multimillion law consequences might close eyes.

 

[sailorman]

I dont know what the first's hull windows are off but I do know you cannot break 5mil polycarb with a sledge hammer I cannot see the first havin less than 8/ 10 mil acrilic or polycarb
unlikely to be glass but have you ever tried to break a toughend car winscreen, they were in an area with large shipping, distracted by looking for leaks,with thoughts of possible abandoment of vessel,not to mention planning a new route , a large ship on auto wouldnt even notice them and a sidewipe by a tanker or large cargo ship would produce and has produced
in the past. this scenario

Not wishing to impune any organisation but I'm not all together sure that all the shipping at sea stop if they did notice. the multimillion law issues might close eyes.

pressure from (compressed) trapped air might have blown then outwards

 

[fergie_mac66]

pressure from (compressed) trapped air might have blown then outwards

I agree. No doubt there are other possibilities but there was a hole left by the keel to relieve pressure

 

[Deleted member 36384]

pressure from (compressed) trapped air might have blown then outwards

It's not the air, it's the momentum of the water inside relentlessly pounding the windows, which they are not designed for, the window flanges are likely designed to take pressure externally not internally. The forces are massive. Consider a drum of water sitting on a trailer unsecured, at 5 mph brake suddenly, the force force on that drum moving is significant. This is what is happening each time the boat heaved, pitched and rolled.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I could take her for a sail in my First 40.7 if that would swing it

Probably would. She might bring her friend along....ChristineKeeler. Seems appropriate.

 

[Otter]

I really dislike threads like this, that come to damning conclusions based on very little real information.

No doubt in the fullness of time more real information will come to light.

My thoughts are with the family, friends and colleagues of the crew that died.

Agreed, some on the forum are really really clever, without knowing the actual boat or being there but just by looking at a picture posted on the internet they can work out exactly what happened. Clever lads indeed.

 

[Horace]

With that type of keel & all the previous I reckon my granny could work out what happened.

 

[30boat]

Agreed, some on the forum are really really clever, without knowing the actual boat or being there but just by looking at a picture posted on the internet they can work out exactly what happened. Clever lads indeed.

I was there and got the T shirt.My boat hit a very large ship at 7 knots head on at night .The shock capsized the boat to over 90 degrees incredibly fast.The windows ,made of 10mm perspex, were underwater for a while and didn't shatter .It takes a lot to break a modern porthole particularly small ones like the ones on the First.The keel must have been a separate incident.