beneteau engine problem

oldgit said:
. I wonder how many will be running around in 20/30/40 years like we have today with some older Volvo's, Perkins, BMC's etc
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Being in a motor trade which comes into contact with vehicles frequently covering starship mileages,evidence suggests that modern diesels will exceed the achievements of earlier stuff.This is simply because the car around it will last so much longer.
Where as once it would have been only Mercedes legendary oil burners managing high mileages it is now virtually anything that is well maintained(and many that are not.).
It started with the old private hire favorite the Nissan Bluebird and seems to have continued with anything VAG and now Ford/Vauxhall.
Many Citreons,Renualts and Peugeots power units might be just as good but the cars tend to fall to bits first.
The only thing which appears to limit the life of all these engines are the electronics,when failure means the end of the line because replacement will exceed the value of the car.This is frequently due to water ingress,poss. class action in US against VAG.Well known problem with ECU in Audisand Passats etc.
Some 10 year old cars with less than 100K on the odometer have gone to the great carpark in the sky due to this.[/QUOTE]

Any opportunity and the Luddites cannot resist having a go......

Misinfomation again, Class Action Lawsuit against Audi VW for car bodies leaking, nothing to do with engine management ECU also Class action regarding cam belts and sludge formation in engine lube oil of turbocharged 1.8 liter GASOLINE engines!

Motor trade muppets who refuse to embrace technology and troubleshoot like plumbers, replacing components starting with the most expensive first are culprits most of the time.
 
When Nanni / Peachement finds this thread, I wonder if they will be inclined to contact the OP before more damage is done to their brand? It has to be in their interests to try and help him out surely. Its a shame he didn't name the thread Nanni engine problems rather than the boat manufacturer name.
 
lovezoo said:
When Nanni / Peachement finds this thread, I wonder if they will be inclined to contact the OP before more damage is done to their brand? It has to be in their interests to try and help him out surely. Its a shame he didn't name the thread Nanni engine problems rather than the boat manufacturer name.
Click to expand...

Have to confess. Nanni's lack of reaction (albeit it may only be perceived and not reality) is rapidly putting me off Nanni's.
 
Do you have a VAG vehicle ? This may be of interest,

"Misinfomation again, Class Action Lawsuit against Audi VW for car bodies leaking, nothing to do with engine management ECU also Class action regarding cam belts and sludge formation in engine lube oil of turbocharged 1.8 liter GASOLINE engines!"


The VAG problem.

At the bottom of the plenium chamber that drains surplus water from screen and scuttle etc are two rubber drain plugs.One is hidden under the battery a second lies almost impossible to see and find,let along get at.So not looked at during services.
Leaves and assorted muck form a layer at bottom of chamber preventing rubber drains from working,Chamber fills up with water and enters cabin via assorted bulkhead grommets.
The footwells of the car fill up and if your are lucky your car may stink a bit and windows mist up a lot.
If you are not lucky and have a automatic the gearbox ecu will drown cos its in the driver footwell this is not good a good thing and will destroy ECU and then almost certainly the gearbox which then goes on to damage engine ecu.
A very common problem and there are websites in US about this daft design fault which VAG have known about for many years.
The recommendation is to punch out the rubber valves with a screwdriver.
 
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oldgit said:
"Misinfomation again, Class Action Lawsuit against Audi VW for car bodies leaking, nothing to do with engine management ECU also Class action regarding cam belts and sludge formation in engine lube oil of turbocharged 1.8 liter GASOLINE engines!"


The VAG problem.

At the bottom of the plenium chamber that drains surplus water from screen and scuttle etc are two rubber drain plugs.One is hidden under the battery a second lies almost impossible to see and find,let along get at.So not looked at during services.
Leaves and assorted muck form a layer at bottom of chamber preventing rubber drains from working,Chamber fills up with water and enters cabin via assorted bulkhead grommets.
The footwells of the car fill up and if your are lucky your car may stink a bit and windows mist up a lot.
If you are not lucky and have a automatic the gearbox ecu will drown cos its in the driver footwell this is not good a good thing and will destroy ECU and then almost certainly the gearbox which then goes on to damage engine ecu.
A very common problem and there are websites in US/UK about this daft design fault which VAG have known about for many years.
The recommendation is to punch out the rubber valves with a screwdriver.
Click to expand...

Just google any combination of.. Audi....Volkswagen etc ..Water... Footwell ...ECU and watch the results flow in :)
There is talk of a class action in US.
 
oldgit said:
"Misinfomation again, Class Action Lawsuit against Audi VW for car bodies leaking, nothing to do with engine management ECU also Class action regarding cam belts and sludge formation in engine lube oil of turbocharged 1.8 liter GASOLINE engines!"


The VAG problem.

At the bottom of the plenium chamber that drains surplus water from screen and scuttle etc are two rubber drain plugs.One is hidden under the battery a second lies almost impossible to see and find,let along get at.So not looked at during services.
Leaves and assorted muck form a layer at bottom of chamber preventing rubber drains from working,Chamber fills up with water and enters cabin via assorted bulkhead grommets.
The footwells of the car fill up and if your are lucky your car may stink a bit and windows mist up a lot.
If you are not lucky and have a automatic the gearbox ecu will drown cos its in the driver footwell this is not good a good thing and will destroy ECU and then almost certainly the gearbox which then goes on to damage engine ecu.
A very common problem and there are websites in US about this daft design fault which VAG have known about for many years.
The recommendation is to punch out the rubber valves with a screwdriver.
Click to expand...

There is a bit more to it to that as well. On the Passat B5/5.5 it fills the passenger footwell and submerges one of the main ecu's that control several different systems. Causes all manner of faults and can easily ruin the ecu if not found in time.
 
Drill a Hole in floor ?

"There is a bit more to it to that as well."

Gearbox repair place next door to me has had numerous examples of this,A4/A6/Passat.they end up there when Audi or VW tell the owner that car is BER.After charging £200.00 for diagnosis of course :)
He can usually sort with rebuilt gearbox and refurbed ECU from specialist local firm,still costs 2k ish tho.
In really bad cases we have bought car for scrap price,spent a few weeks stripping car,drying out,cheapo ECU from breaker/ebay and hey presto.
You do take chance that nothing else was damaged when ECU told gearbox to select 1st gear at 60mph but ...Hey ho...........

Was able to help good friend recently when he mentioned in pub,that his A4 Estate rear footwell carpet was "floating " it was full of water!
 
Excuse me guys...........

Poor OP is up to his neck in the do do with some Toyota/Nanni engine issues.

This is unhelpful and rampant thread hi-jacking with anecdotal VW garage bodging stuff!
 
lovezoo said:
Latestarter: do you think this thread could be relevant to the OPs problems?
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Failure analysis from afar is a dangerous game. Does seen to have a ring of similarity to OP's problems.

However Nanni know the truth, just a matter of teasing it out of them!

Slicing up sections of the head and conduct proper investigation is only way be be 100% sure. Less expensive is to get Nanni to come to the table and talk.
 
information form nanni received

Hi,
Progress to day on Beneteau Nanni engine problem.
firstly Peachment now have a head in stock, I have sent them the crankshaft, collets and springs from the old head.
Peachment have also had a response as to why both my engines have failed!

*****QUOTE******
This confirm my thought:
We have already written to MR Payne that we are thinking that his engines are overloaded, and that it was the reason of the failure.
Indeed we think that due to the overload the exhaust temp is far too high and it makes the cooling liquid to boil when it gets to the cylinder head (hottest point),this explain why there is less aluminum as when it boils it damages the cylinder head(cavitations).
This can also be confirmed when we see the picture 1 (with the hole found when removing the head)because we can see some mark at the place of the cylinder head gasket that shows that the cylinder head has moved (cylinder head not marked all the way the same).
Best regards. Guillaume PUJOL NANNI After Sales Department
*****END QUOTE*********
So Nanni think my engines are overloaded? The only thing I can think of is that the Solent water is much thicker, more like treacle - nothing like French water!!! Or maybe I still have the pontoon in tow? ha! I will investigate both of these further! If the engines in my boat are overloaded then they are in all the other identical boats out there.
As to what they mean by the head has moved I have no idea. You opinons would be much appreciated.
The picture Guillaume is refering to is
http://www.austin-7-bits.co.uk/headhole1.jpg
The pics show the head overall and just the 4th cylinder.
http://www.austin-7-bits.co.uk/DSCN6007.JPG
and
http://www.austin-7-bits.co.uk/DSCN6004.JPG
 
jim99bob said:
So Nanni think my engines are overloaded? The only thing I can think of is that the Solent water is much thicker, more like treacle - nothing like French water!!! Or maybe I still have the pontoon in tow? ha! I will investigate both of these further! If the engines in my boat are overloaded then they are in all the other identical boats out there.
As to what they mean by the head has moved I have no idea. You opinons would be much
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm not at all surprised. Sorry. Unfortunately gone are the days of landing a combine harvestor oil burner into a motorboat with barely a second thought.

How much load you put on the engines will be very specific to lots of factors, how much fuel, people and chocolate bisuits you've got on board, the sea state, EGT will climb significantly when climbing a big swell, dirty bottom, how hard you drive the boat and so it goes on.

Sounds to me that when Ben/Nan did the installation they either we're diligent enough or didn't allow enough margin, perhaps they both amount to the same thing.

I'd be getting them fixed and some EGT monitoring in place and a proper set of sea trials completed with someone proffessional on board and subsequently adjusting the props to suit.
 
nanni engine overheating

Hi,
Yes, that is the plan, however if the overheating is in a very specific part of the head - ie between valves on 4th cyinder, which I suspect, it won't necessarily show up in the exhaust gas temperature.
 
jim99bob said:
Hi,
Yes, that is the plan, however if the overheating is in a very specific part of the head - ie between valves on 4th cyinder, which I suspect, it won't necessarily show up in the exhaust gas temperature.
Click to expand...

One small step at a time..............

If cause of alleged cavitaion engine is overloading it WILL show up it EGT at WOT.

Next step. Contact Guillaume PUJOL and request their complete installation guidelines specific to this engine model. Document must include maximum exhaust temperature (turbine out).

The fact that NANNI are claiming engine overload is possible cause is actually very positive. You now have somthing to get your teeth into.

#1 I have asked this before but have never had and answer............What was maximum rpm attained at WOT when you first did sea trial, was surveyor on board?

#2 Has tacho accuracy ever been verified?

Now life gets interesting. Double check your propeller sizing. Write to Beneteau requesting original engine sign off documention for your specific type of vessel INCLUDING propeller dimensions used for installation sign off. Suggest it may be smart at this point to have props removed and scanned to ensure that what is stamped on the hub reflects exactly what is stamped on the hubs and can repudiate any suggestion props have been 'tweaked'. You require written report on results of prop scan.

When you have original report from Beneteau compare data, WOT rpm propeller sizing. IF your numbers appear to be the same as those on original engine sign off for your specific vessel type the statement regarding engine overloading may be well on the way to putting some French balls in the vice. If Nanni accepted installation of engines in overloaded condition which has directly resulted in your engine failure......Ball back in your court Mr NANNI.

Re-reading the report from Guillaume PUJOL I sense he has been here before, explanation is too pat.
 
Hi,
Prior to these engine problems the engines would run around the 3500 max, although they were generally operated around 2000 rpm or less because the primary use of the boat was 1 to 1 training for my yachtmaster.
Since these issues I have replaced the rev counters (the hour meters had faded) I have not checked these for accuracy, I have bought a hand held rpm meter so I will be able to do this once I have the head back on the engine. i am away for 10 days from next wed so I think this will have to go on hold until after that, I will in the meantime get the propeller data etc.
I have an EGT meter (handheld) so once the engine is back together I can do some testing.
There are quite a lot of cracked heads on Toyota 1KZ engines in the automotive marget http://www.toyota-granvia.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=673
Thanks for your input to date!
Regards
jim
 
jim99bob said:
Hi,
Prior to these engine problems the engines would run around the 3500 max, although they were generally operated around 2000 rpm or less because the primary use of the boat was 1 to 1 training for my yachtmaster.
Since these issues I have replaced the rev counters (the hour meters had faded) I have not checked these for accuracy, I have bought a hand held rpm meter so I will be able to do this once I have the head back on the engine. i am away for 10 days from next wed so I think this will have to go on hold until after that, I will in the meantime get the propeller data etc.
I have an EGT meter (handheld) so once the engine is back together I can do some testing.
There are quite a lot of cracked heads on Toyota 1KZ engines in the automotive marget http://www.toyota-granvia.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=673
Thanks for your input to date!
Regards
jim
Click to expand...

Jim,

Alarm bells starting to ring now......If you were only making 3,500 rpm engines were WAY overloaded. Spec sheet rated speed is 3,600 rpm! This is automotive base engine therefore could have around 10% governor droop, high idle is probably over 3,900 rpm. With tachos reading optimistic situation could be faar worse. With calibrated tacho I would expect to see at least 3,700 rpm at WOT, more for comfort considering that this is an IDI engine.

Handheld EGT??? We are talking past each other here. Remember I said 'turbine exhaust temperature out'. That is EXACTLY what I meant. Dry part of riser needs to be drilled to take 1/8 NPT thermocouple probe and a gauge fitted. We need the actual exhaust gas temperature to know what is going on inside. These are real nice in twin installs http://www.isspro.com/proddetail.php?prod=R624

I use Designated Engineer for my engine installations, not genuine Isspro but good stuff and competitive pricing. http://www.designatedengineer.com/Xhaust.html

I have a portable Isspro set up which is real easy on CAT, Cummins, Deere and DD, have riser already tapped and plugged 1/8 NPT to accept pyrometer probe.
 
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Hi,
I think there is a blanking plug in the exhaust which will take a sensor, I have a handheld multimeter with a k type thermocouple which I would have pushed in. but, in light of your comments I have ordered a pair of K type 1/8" probes which should screw in and a pair of digital LED displays.
Those twin gauges look good !

Regards
jim
 
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