beneteau engine problem

[Latestarter1]

I was reading this thread thinking to myself...I wonder if the other one will go pop too....then I was thinking......I bet Latestarter comes along and says its an installation fault....I bet LS says the EGT is too high underload....then I was thinking I bet he's right too....

Nobody will ever know, I do not think there is any provison for fitting pressure gauge or thermocouple into Nanni riser, therefore difficult to see how back pressure and EGT were ever established.

As to getting in a surveyor, talk about adding to OP's financial woes, never come across one yet whose knowledge of engines or installations coud not be written on the back of a fag packet.

Lightning does not strike twice and engine dealer back up is just adding to agony of whole mess.

Not sure how OP spent £17 on previous engine, however I expect he has all the bills!

 

[jim99bob]

I would get an independent surveyor to look at it now then get the valve seat removed to check to see the sorce of the leak. You may find the machined recess where the valve seat is fitted has gone through into the water way and has only been sealed by the valve seat.

It still seems a bit odd about that balance shaft bearing going directly after rebuild. Is sounds like some debris entered the oil system.

Hi, re debris in oil system, the 1st replacement head supplied by Peachment (Nanni) did not accept the original valves in it (they were too long to shim up properly) Peachement collected the head and valves, had the valves shortened and returned the head built up. It was fitted and the engine overheated immediatly. Perhaps this is where debris may have entered? Peachment sent another head assembled to me, and sold/supplied the one with the shortened valves to someone else. (apparently it works fine) until till he finds that he can't replace a valve with a standard one

 

[Latestarter1]

Peachment sent another head assembled to me, and sold/supplied the one with the shortened valves to someone else. (apparently it works fine) until till he finds that he can't replace a valve with a standard one

So somebody else has suffered the same problem!

 

[Firefly625]

When I was going to share a boat I looked at a 9.80 with twin Nanni's and even put in an offer, that was rejected. TBH I did consider a Toyota based engine a plus for the 9.80. In retrospect (a wonderful thing) how wrong I was...

So just to confirm what I think the very wise LS1 is suggesting, even once the other engine is repaired, those 2 nanni engines are still installed in the same boat in the same manner and therefore without any other modifications it will be just time before this happens again?

 

[jim99bob]

Yes, your right, both Nanni engines will be in the same position but with new heads (but the same fault) so they will fail again 400 hours down the line. I really need some help convincing Nanni that there is amanufacturing fault, I don't know how to go about taking a french company to court - any legal bods here? In the meantime boat still headless and unusable!

 

[PaulGooch]

Yes, your right, both Nanni engines will be in the same position but with new heads (but the same fault) so they will fail again 400 hours down the line. I really need some help convincing Nanni that there is amanufacturing fault, I don't know how to go about taking a french company to court - any legal bods here? In the meantime boat still headless and unusable!

But if you read Latestarters posts you will see that he doesn't believe it to be a manufacturing fault. Neither do i. Why ? This engine was fitted to the Toyota Landcruiser (pre-D4D) and some pickups, gazillions of them. It was bullet proof. There have also been a lot of the marinised versions fitted to various boats. My own boat is fitted with one and has done 552 faultless hours.

If you'd have had a single head failure, you might say it was a faulty head. For both to fail in exactly the same manner suggests something else is wrong. If it was a manufacturing fault, the internet would be full of people reporting problems with this engine, but it isn't.

I do agree that repairing these engines will result in them both failing again, possibly at similar hours. But not because the engines can't do the hours, because they are somehow installed/setup incorrectly.

What RPM do you run them at ? What's max RPM ?

 

[jim99bob]

Hi, if you search for cylinder head problems for 1kz Toyota engine (which these are) you will find loads of problems with cracked heads. So much so there are Companies making stronger/better designed heads (eg ARM)
The faults with these two engines are behind the inlet valve on the 4th cylinder, so I think it's highly unlikely that the faul lies anywhere else in the engine apart from the casting! Its not even the exhaust valve!
Think max rpm is 3600, generally used between 1200-2500,

 

[PaulGooch]

Hi, if you search for cylinder head problems for 1kz Toyota engine (which these are) you will find loads of problems with cracked heads. So much so there are Companies making stronger/better designed heads (eg ARM)
The faults with these two engines are behind the inlet valve on the 4th cylinder, so I think it's highly unlikely that the faul lies anywhere else in the engine apart from the casting! Its not even the exhaust valve!
Think max rpm is 3600, generally used between 1200-2500,

I'm aware that there are some reports of cracked heads, but considering the number of these that have been built and the current age of the engine, the numbers are relatively low, IMO. There do not appear to be any other reports of the same problem that you are having.

The Nanni spec for your engines is indeed 3600 RPM max, but does it get to those revs ?

Not sure what your boat is doing at 2500 RPM, but mine would sound very laboured at those engine speeds. Would sound like you were driving your car up a very steep hill, type of thing. Whether that's likely to have any bearing on the problem i wouldn't like to say.

 

[burgundyben]

I suspect what has killed these engines is load, not revs.

A car doing 60mph downhill at 2500 revs is hardly working, a car going up a steep hill, carry 4 people, towing a caravan in second gear at 2500 revs is working its nuts off.

In those two cases EGT will be much higher in the second, a boat install is much more akin to the second, its critical that an instalation allows for this.

 

[PaulGooch]

I suspect what has killed these engines is load, not revs.

A car doing 60mph downhill at 2500 revs is hardly working, a car going up a steep hill, carry 4 people, towing a caravan in second gear at 2500 revs is working its nuts off.

In those two cases EGT will be much higher in the second, a boat install is much more akin to the second, its critical that an instalation allows for this.

That's why i asked about the revs. Mine sounds just like your second example at 2500 RPM. At 3000-3200 RPM it sounds as if it's got it's feet up having a cold one.

Perhaps LS1 might care to comment here ?

 

[David of Essex]

That's why i asked about the revs. Mine sounds just like your second example at 2500 RPM. At 3000-3200 RPM it sounds as if it's got it's feet up having a cold one.

Perhaps LS1 might care to comment here ?

+1
''Who you gon'a call Ghost Busters '' LS1 when you want a no nonsense, sometimes hard to swallow answer.

 

[Scarron]

I suspect what has killed these engines is load, not revs.

A car doing 60mph downhill at 2500 revs is hardly working, a car going up a steep hill, carry 4 people, towing a caravan in second gear at 2500 revs is working its nuts off.

In those two cases EGT will be much higher in the second, a boat install is much more akin to the second, its critical that an instalation allows for this.

I agree, although I am no expert it sounds to me as though the boat has been overpropped and the engines are lugging which with a high speed diesel will drive exhaust as temperature skywards which will in turn seek aout the weakest link in the valve train.

I am sure Latestarter will know but I seem to recall all sorts of similar problems with overpropped Toyota based engines.

Bet you a pound to a penny his reccomendation will be to put new heads on and sea trial it ensuring that it will hit maximum revs with ease even allowing for max loading and plenty of fouling!

 

[Latestarter1]

Running scared now!

Took a look at the Nanni 4-390 TDI 147 kW spec sheet. I never realised that this is an indirect injection motor.

Temperature gradients in IDI motors are real ugly which is why we moved away from them years ago in larger displacement high output engines. Yes they are better from emissions perspective and noise is easier to tame, but banging out over 50hp/liter from IDI is living life on the edge.

Quite simply there is no margin for error on these engines. Whole installation needs to be looked at detail. Glib talk of engines making 3,600 rpm, have tacho's been calibrated for example, exhaust back pressure??

Detail detail detail.

PS no clue as the way these valves are manuafactured however unless grinding stems approved in a Toyota service topic I would be concerned.

 

[timgriffin]

Any updates on your engine woes
Jim as gone quiet on here .
Tim

 

[jim99bob]

reason for gone quiet

Hi Tim,
I have gone a bit quiet - mainly because the front brake on my pushbike broke whilst I was going down hill at about 25mph on Friday. It locked the frontwheel, stopped the bike instantly! but not me. Woke up 4 hours later in A & E. Now got fractured skull in 2 places, broken rib, and 10 or 20 bruises and a black eye. (bike is ok apart from brake before anyone asks)
Will update re boat tomorrow. Think I might take up betting on horses whilst my luck is in!

 

[longjohnsilver]

Hi Tim,
I have gone a bit quiet - mainly because the front brake on my pushbike broke whilst I was going down hill at about 25mph on Friday. It locked the frontwheel, stopped the bike instantly! but not me. Woke up 4 hours later in A & E. Now got fractured skull in 2 places, broken rib, and 10 or 20 bruises and a black eye. (bike is ok apart from brake before anyone asks)
Will update re boat tomorrow. Think I might take up betting on horses whilst my luck is in!

Nasty, get well soon.

 

[timgriffin]

Ouch get well soon .
Tim

 

[penfold]

sounds like a bad situation; EGT gauges are a priority after rebuilding this time.

 

[jim99bob]

Have sent head off to be pressure tested, should know results by Tuesday. Peachment don't have any spare heads at the moment. Will order a couple of EGT meters in the meantime. Bought a new bike (Trek 3900)

 

[vas]

Hi Tim,
I have gone a bit quiet - mainly because the front brake on my pushbike broke whilst I was going down hill at about 25mph on Friday. It locked the frontwheel, stopped the bike instantly! but not me. Woke up 4 hours later in A & E. Now got fractured skull in 2 places, broken rib, and 10 or 20 bruises and a black eye. (bike is ok apart from brake before anyone asks)
Will update re boat tomorrow. Think I might take up betting on horses whilst my luck is in!

ouch, just saw that, I wont say have a swift recovery cause I'm afraid it wont be.
Almost 6 weeks with a broken rib and fcking thing still hurts when it feels so and I've not dared push myself on manual work yet...

btw, and since you're waiting for the pressure test, disk brake, or v-brake?

V.