Bending stainless steel tube

[superheat6k]

This is what I made - not perfect but it was free and does the intended task perfectly ...

 

[PaulRainbow]

This is what I made - not perfect but it was free and does the intended task perfectly ...

Looks OK from here :encouragement:

 

[solent clown]

This is what I made - not perfect but it was free and does the intended task perfectly ...

kool

 

[Brent Swain]

Between 1/8 inch and 2 inches, there are nine separate external diameters in Sched 40, of which 3 sizes share the same nominal wall thickness. I can't imagine for a second that e.g. Solent Clown would assume that one wall thickness is related to one ext dia. That would be grossly unprofessional.

I guess that Brent is applying the great tradition of USA shade tree mechanics to marine metal work...

Who said anything about the USA?
I avoid the place like the plague! I never go there any more.
Radius you can bend depends on the size. For 3/4 or 1 inch sch 40 stainless, I can get it down to a 12 inch radius without the wall collapsing.
Bump and bend it and you can straighten it back out , with no problem, unlike the extruded "yottie" tinfoil walled stuff they use on "yottie" priority boats.
( "Yottieness" logic is where they wear high visibility , bright yellow sea boots, so rescuers can see their feet, when they are chest deep in sea water).
Some 36 footers used 1 inch sch 40 lifelines, some used 3/4. The difference ,sailing, was completely unnoticeable. The difference in strength was huge, as was the ease of welding it up, and the reliability of the welds.
I don't like the fragility of "Yottieness,"never have.

 

[rotrax]

Who said anything about the USA?
I avoid the place like the plague! I never go there any more.
Radius you can bend depends on the size. For 3/4 or 1 inch sch 40 stainless, I can get it down to a 12 inch radius without the wall collapsing.
Bump and bend it and you can straighten it back out , with no problem, unlike the extruded "yottie" tinfoil walled stuff they use on "yottie" priority boats.
( "Yottieness" logic is where they wear high visibility , bright yellow sea boots, so rescuers can see their feet, when they are chest deep in sea water).
Some 36 footers used 1 inch sch 40 lifelines, some used 3/4. The difference ,sailing, was completely unnoticeable. The difference in strength was huge, as was the ease of welding it up, and the reliability of the welds.
I don't like the fragility of "Yottieness,"never have.

As usual BS is giving us his " got one, had one, been there, done it " reply.

He is content with his home made boat, tree bent rails, 2 dollar blocks made in 2 minutes.

That is fine, for him.

He needs to stop patronising and abusing those who have chosen a different lifestyle from his.

My yachtiness is NOT fragile. My chosen boats and gear have carried me through some interesting and heavy weather.

My chosen vessels might not come off as well as one of BS's steel origami jobs if it had an episode with another boat, wharf or Harbour Wall.

But fragile it aint!

My-and First Mates seamanship-has avoided any such events so far.

FYI BS, over here bright yellow seaboots are so yesterday. I havent seen a pair outside of a fishing trawler for years. The fishermen wear white ones now.......................................

Getting back to tube bending, in a previous life building and racing top level high performance racing motorbikes I have bent-by just about all known methods-T45 tube from 3/4 inch to 3.5 inch. T45 is pretty thin wall stuff. Plugging, filling with sand and plugging the other end before bending, heating and bending with hydraulic equipment was best for the big stuff, a couple of machined dies that allowed a big vice and wooden bearers to be used was another.

I have straightened enduro bike fork tubes by whacking the bend against a tree trunk. That was during the event, otherwise my 100 ton Churchill hydraulic press would have been used with its custom made-by me-sized duralumin protector pieces.

Which way is better BS? One that allows a dial guage to check the fork tube after straightening, or the one that just allows it to be checked by eye?

Might be alright on one of your boats, but not on one of the competition motorcycles I was riding or responsible for.

I said on the other thread re Steel Boats that, IMHO, you suffer from inverse snobbery. This means you percieve that those who go sailing in a different way to you, pay for services and dont build their own origami steel boats are inferior to you.

Well, let me tell you something buddy-they are not!

You dont like the " fragility " of " Yottiness ".

Fine, a personal opinion to which you are perfectly entitled.

But you are boring the arse off me, and possibly many others, by contantly banging on about your personal opinions.

The fact that most sailors dont semi retire at 22, build their own boats and swan about the Pacific like you means only one thing-they dont wish to. They find family life, children and a career as rewarding as you find your life. For them, fitting sailing in might mean using Marinas and the boat staying tied up a lot.

It is no reason to be critical of their choice.

The same as they are not critical of YOUR choice..................................

 

[Blue Sunray]

Who said anything about the USA?
I avoid the place like the plague! I never go there any more.
Radius you can bend depends on the size. For 3/4 or 1 inch sch 40 stainless, I can get it down to a 12 inch radius without the wall collapsing.
Bump and bend it and you can straighten it back out , with no problem, unlike the extruded "yottie" tinfoil walled stuff they use on "yottie" priority boats.
( "Yottieness" logic is where they wear high visibility , bright yellow sea boots, so rescuers can see their feet, when they are chest deep in sea water).
Some 36 footers used 1 inch sch 40 lifelines, some used 3/4. The difference ,sailing, was completely unnoticeable. The difference in strength was huge, as was the ease of welding it up, and the reliability of the welds.
I don't like the fragility of "Yottieness,"never have.

You are very amusing, have you ever considered a career as a writer? Some say Canadians are a bit slow but a fortnight to come up with that carefully crafted gem is not too bad.

 

[solent clown]

Hans Christian Anderson already cornered the market in fairy tales, even if BS' version is more Grim. Tube bending is a huge part of my day job, and we have tens of thousands of pounds worth of equipment for the job. I would happily of used a tree if it worked for doing proper work.
Stuff and nonsense. No need for him to post it on here, it does not serve the OP at all

 

[Mister E]

Hans Christian Anderson already cornered the market in fairy tales, even if BS' version is more Grim. Tube bending is a huge part of my day job, and we have tens of thousands of pounds worth of equipment for the job. I would happily of used a tree if it worked for doing proper work.
Stuff and nonsense. No need for him to post it on here, it does not serve the OP at all

But it does serve a useful purpose, that is how not to do it.
I have noticed that he never puts up proper pictures showing the stuff he has made.

 

[rotrax]

But it does serve a useful purpose, that is how not to do it.
I have noticed that he never puts up proper pictures showing the stuff he has made.

Not so-in the long running thread on Scuttlebutt there have been pictures of his boats in the making and complete.

They look pretty good, and the construction method obviously works.

But the other side to BS's online persona-as I alluded to earlier in post #25- is his inverse snobbery.

Anything not made with angle grinders and a stick welder using boatyard scrap is expensive yottie rubbish. I know it is-he keeps telling me!

I sailed well over 3,000 NM in a plastic boat with no gear failures in the last two seasons, in waters considered to be pretty challenging-Bristol Channel, English Channel, Channel Islands and the South and West coasts of Ireland. Up to 60 KTS of wind in Bantry Bay for a day or two. Stayed on a mooring then.

If half of what BS tells us has a base in fact, respect-superhero.

Bur telling me he can fabricate a working block, better and stronger than a Harken one, from scrap, in 20 minutes and at a cost of 2 Dollars is total fantasy.

I spent my life making stuff for Vereran, Vintage and Classic motorbikes, before that First Mate and I were serious motorcycle racers with many machines to build, test, race and subsequently maintain.

I have been there and done it when it comes to repairing and making stuff from scratch, so I am not easily immpressed-or taken in.

I think, for some users, his boats are fine, His approach to building and fabrication in some cases are fine. He obviously knows how to keep the dreaded tin worm at bay in steel boats.

His problem is that he percieves his model as a universal panacea-and it is not.

Enough said.

 

[Brent Swain]

Most of the advice given on boats is "just throw money at it, and if you don't have money, give up the dream, and leave cruising to the rich."
I try point out alternatives which the not so rich can use, to keep the dream alive, as well as what can be done in the middle of nowhere, where a cheque book wont work.
The "just throw money at it" suggestion assumes one has the money to throw, and that one is constantly just down the road from the ship chandlers to throw your money at. That is only the case for a tiny portion of this coast, and many others. For decades, I have seen money and time as the biggest hurdles for most young wanna be cruisers starting out, for which the "Experts" offer nothing at all, assuming all cruisers are rich. Get that point wrong, and much of their advice from that point on, becomes increasingly useless to them.
Yes, if you have the money, use it but don't suggest that is ones only option, or the panacea, as you constantly do. That lack of imagination or innovativeness is excruciatingly boring. Yes, not everyone wants to cruise full time as a way of life ,but my posts are for those who do . Are you suggesting all cruising advice should be only for those who want only to weekend cruise, while spending the rest of their time solving the world people shortage, assuming that is "all anyone" wants to do?
Suggesting that tig welded tinfoil is as strong and reliable as stick welded sch 40 stainless, is laughable, as is the suggestion that bolted down on plastic fittings are as strong an leak proof as welded down stainless.

I was rowing up Ladysmith Harbour, and saw the former Aussie Americas Cup challenger "Dame Pattie." The main sheet blocks were two cheeks of aluminium plate with spacers, just like the ones I make .The only difference was lightening holes, which had no effect on basic function . I could make them in a matter of minutes for less that ten dollars worth of material. Putting a huge price tag on them would not in any way, automatically make them better,or more functional.

Rotax you just spent a lot of time banging on about your personal opinions. Attacking me for giving mine, is like the pot calling the kettle black. Look in the mirror while doing that. It will bore you to death, if that is the kind of thing which bores you.

Do I wish I had spent my early 20's doing things the way my critics suggest for others, working to buy things I don't need , with money I don't have to impress people I don't like, instead of cruising the South Pacific resourcefully, in ways which they don't "approve" of?
Not a chance!
My posts are not for those who don't want to cruise much, they are for those who want to cruise more and work less. The rich don't need any help. The rest should do a search under "Better Homes and Gardens" rather than expect to find that kind of info here.
This is a boating forum (or so I assumed).

 

[rotrax]

Most of the advice given on boats is "just throw money at it, and if you don't have money, give up the dream, and leave cruising to the rich."
I try point out alternatives which the not so rich can use, to keep the dream alive, as well as what can be done in the middle of nowhere, where a cheque book wont work.
The "just throw money at it" suggestion assumes one has the money to throw, and that one is constantly just down the road from the ship chandlers to throw your money at. That is only the case for a tiny portion of this coast, and many others.
Yes,if you have the money, use it but don't suggest that is ones only option, or the panacea, as you constantly do. That lack of imagination or innovativeness is excruciatingly boring.
Suggesting that tig welded tinfoil is as strong and reliable as stick welded sch 40 stainless, is laughable, as is the suggestion that bolted down on plastic fittings are as strong an leak proof as welded down stainless.
i was rowing up Ladysmith Harbour and saw the former Aussie Americas cup challenger "Dame Pattie." The main sheet blocks were two cheeks of aluminium plate with spacers,just like the ones I make .The only difference was lightening holes, which had no effect on basic function . I could make them in a matter of minutes for less that ten dollars worth of material. Putting a huge price tag on them would not in any way,automatically make them better or more functional.
Rotax you just spent a lot of time banging on about your personal opinions .Attacking me is like the pot calling the kettle black. Look in the mirror while doing that. It will bore you to death, if that is the kind of thing which bores you.

Do I wish I had spent my early 20s doing things the way my critics suggest for others, working to buy things I don't need , with money I don't have to impress people I don't like, instead of cruising the South Pacific resourcefully, in ways which they don't "approve" of?
Not a chance.

Brent-where can I find this specific advice to " just throw money at it? " for boating problems.

What boats have tissue paper rails? Not found many in my experience so far. Bottom line is, they have to be strong enough to keep you on the boat. that is their function, They are not crash bars.

So Brent-what low friction bearing are in your home made blocks?

I suspect just the bolt running in the sheave you have made from a plastic cutting board.

America's cup boats gear is a trifle more sophisticated than that.

You have done lots of sailing in a home built steel boat with lots of home built gear. Great, well done.

But you must agree that it is not the only way to do it.

Over the 45 years of my motorcycle racing career I got great satisfaction in beating other riders on far more expensive machines than mine. The satisfaction was inversly proportional to the amount my bikes cost.

But it was not the only way to go racing. Others without my skills, tools and knowlege HAD to buy off the shelf stuff.

The difference is I did not bang on endlessly that I made the right choice.

I have never-and would not ever-suggest your life choice is or was wrong for you. You have achieved a lot on a little. Well done.

But others find a different choice equally fullfilling, something you seem to find hard to accept.

It is NOT a lesser choice.

IMHO, of course...........................

 

[Brent Swain]

Costa Vida and Shinola . 2-36 footers I built, with SS sch 40 pipe lifelines.
One went to Pitcarirn and back ,Shinola to New Zealand and back to BC.
Some of that pipe looked like pretzels, before we whacked it on a log .It ended up looking like new pipe. The nice thing about a soft surface like a log, is the pipe sinks in a bit, preventing kinking. When you weld the pieces together ,tap it straight while the weld is hot, and it will bend on the weld. Let it cool ,and it could bend anywhere. Those lifelines were made out of short lengths, some under 5 ft, but properly done, they are indistinguishable from full length pipes.
Note the fairness of the hulls, with zero filler of any kind.

 

[Brent Swain]

I am not suggesting my way is the only way. I never have. It has proven one of the best ways for someone who is not rich, and doesn't want to take forever to get out cruising. How quickly I got out cruising is concrete proof of that.
For a block on most cruising boats, the friction between a 3/8th inch SS bolt and a poly sheave is tiny and thus irrelevant, especially with a larger diameter sheave, giving more leverage on the bearing surface.
If one wants to take the time, one can easily make the hole big enough to put 1/4 inch rods between the sheave and the pin, for roller bearings, before putting the sheave in the block. If you did one sheet block this way, and the other without the rollers ,I believe the difference would be unnoticeable.That would be an interesting experiment ,which would prove my point .
Rollers are a sales gimmick.
Now that we are awash in used gear in excellent condition, going one size bigger on the winches would be a better idea, for more power.

Interesting how we consider "Custom made" and "Hand made" marks of quality, while "Home made"is considered derogatory, when they are exactly the same thing!

 

[rotrax]

I am not suggesting my way is the only way. I never have. It has proven one of the best ways for someone who is not rich, and doesn't want to take forever to get out cruising. How quickly I got out cruising is concrete proof of that.
For a block on most cruising boats, the friction between a 3/8th inch SS bolt and a poly sheave is tiny and thus irrelevant, especially with a larger diameter sheave, giving more leverage on the bearing surface.
If one wants to take the time, one can easily make the hole big enough to put 1/4 inch rods between the sheave and the pin, for roller bearings, before putting the sheave in the block. If you did one sheet block this way, and the other without the rollers ,I believe the difference would be unnoticeable.That would be an interesting experiment ,which would prove my point .
Rollers are a sales gimmick.
Now that we are awash in used gear in excellent condition, going one size bigger on the winches would be a better idea, for more power.

Interesting how we consider "Custom made" and "Hand made" marks of quality, while "Home made"is considered derogatory, when they are exactly the same thing!

You really have no idea of the power available in the rig of a top level race boat, have you?

The blocks used are increadibly strong, made from very hi-tec materials and with extremly low friction materials and bearings. Usually ball bearings-less friction due to point loading only, not full width contact as you find with a roller bearing.

I have a great regard for hand made/home made stuff.

In the past I have earned a few quid from the Practical Boat Owner magazine tips section where they have published a couple of my ideas.

You may not have said directly "You guy's who dont build your own cheapo boat and gear are inferior to me " but you infer it.

Perhaps you dont mean to be patronising and to sound superior. But, IMHO, you often do.

You insist that gear available in dealers and chandlers is of poor quality and a rip off. You insist-quite strongly-that GRP boats are no good.

Well, as I have often said, its an opinion, and valid as that. Valid as an opinion. Not necessarily factual.

I suspect you have never bought off the shelf gear new. You are not that kind of guy. So, I must ask you what you base you opinions on-clapped out thirty year old stuff you come across when collecting scrap for other purposes?

Some marine gear is dubious for its intended use. Some tiller pilots are not waterproof, surely a basic requirement. Some cheap chinese S/S bits are suspect.

But if you require these items and are unable to make them yourself, what are you to do?

Constructive comment only please.

 

[vic008]

Filling with sand has only had one mention, but it worked for me. Didn't need to cap the ends if packed in hard. Hope not to start an argument.

 

[doug748]

I have not fully read the thread vic but I have seen CerroBend used for quality work, tho cannot claim to have used it myself:

http://www.zilt.co.uk/LowMelting/BendAlloy.html

It melts in boiling water.

 

[rotrax]

I wish that had been around in the seventies! Or, if it was, I had known about it.

Many times I had to make really tight exhaust bends by cutting and welding. Cleaning up afterwards was a real pain if plating was needed.

 

[doug748]

Probably a very niche market. It was around way back and commonly used for aircraft work post war.