Belgium: marine diesel

[Koeketiene]

The 'definite' Belgian marine diesel guide:

1. All marine diesel now bought in Belgium is white. When the tax relief on red diesel for leisure boaters disappeared a couple of years ago all suppliers were granted a 6 month window to sell the last of their red, clean their tanks and start selling white.
2. Last Tuesday I paid €1.44/ltr - all tax paid. In the Orwell area 60/40 red diesel retails around £1.10 (approx €1.26). So for UK registered vessels it's cheaper to top up in Britain.
3. Where to get get marine diesel in Belgium?
Zeebrugge: fuel pontoon in the marina. Obtained through HM (if he's not around -> no fuel). Payment either cash or Belgian debit card.
Blankenberge: fuel pontoon just to starboard when entering (by North Sea Boating). Available during shop opening hours - payment cash/Belgian debit card or any credit card. Harbour entrance has not been dredged yet - around LW there's currently only about 1.5m of water.
Ostend: no dedicated fuel pontoon. There is however, a petrol station within walking distance of the RYCO.
Nieuwpoort: fuel pontoon 400m beyond the VVW yacht club, behind the Ship Shop brokerage yard. Fully automated, self-service - available 24/7. Machine takes Belgian debit cards or any credit card.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I read that the Cruising Association are advising that Belgian customs are disputing the legality red diesel purchased in the UK and that visiting with red diesel in the tanks risks a substantial fine, assuming this is correct I wonder if the change to white will lead increased 'vigilance' on their part?

 

[Koeketiene]

I read that the Cruising Association are advising that Belgian customs are disputing the legality red diesel purchased in the UK and that visiting with red diesel in the tanks risks a substantial fine, assuming this is correct I wonder if the change to white will lead increased 'vigilance' on their part?

The change to white had already been made a couple of years ago.

At the moment Belgian customs are targeting Belgian & Dutch flagged boats (the Dutch are doing the same).
Customs of both countries are disputing the 60/40 rule.
If a Belgian or Dutch boat tops up in Britain it should do so not at the 60/40 tariff, but at the full 100% taxed rate and obtain/keep the receipt.
The UK 100% tax rate is more expensive than the 100% taxed rate in Belgium.

That's the official line.

However, in Belgian yachting circles there are numerous cases being reported of BE/NL boat-owners being fined for having red diesel.
Yacht clubs have gotten together and have appealed these fines - they have won all cases where the owner could prove he had paid the 100% taxed rate in the UK.

As yet, there have been no reports of Belgian customs checking the colour of the diesel in the tanks of UK boats.
Do note that even a UK flagged boat can be fined if you are found to carry red diesel in cans.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

I wonder why the uk doesn't just shift to selling White diesel... Would be a lot easier, if not a bit of a risk (albeit a piddling one) of some tax evasion...

 

[Ianqv]

I wonder why the uk doesn't just shift to selling White diesel... Would be a lot easier, if not a bit of a risk (albeit a piddling one) of some tax evasion...

Or.....
Keep red diesel and just get rid of Belgium!!!

 

[Ianqv]

Red Diesel

I forgot to say.. many thanks for the top tip re Red diesel in fuel cans!
I have red in mine at the moment (so I could have been caught out!).

Cheers

Ian

 

[sailorman]

Or.....
Keep red diesel and just get rid of Belgium!!!

Not a good idea

They brew this

 

[Koeketiene]

I wonder why the uk doesn't just shift to selling White diesel... Would be a lot easier, if not a bit of a risk (albeit a piddling one) of some tax evasion...

IIRC the RYA lobbied to keep red diesel to save marina operators the expense of having their tanks cleaned after they sold the last of their red and before they restocked with white.
Like cleaning fuel tanks is such a bad idea

 

[Gumpy]

As yet, there have been no reports of Belgian customs checking the colour of the diesel in the tanks of UK boats.
Do note that even a UK flagged boat can be fined if you are found to carry red diesel in cans.

At least one boat has been fined for having red in the propulsion tank and another barge was warned yesterday but his diesel was mostly white both British flagged.

The DBA advice to any of its members going to Belgium is not to have red diesel in the propulsion tanks.

As an aside, Belgium has also brought up the fact that we still use fiscally marked diesel for propulsion with the EU commission and this is against the EU rules and because of this its looking like we will have to go to white diesel for propulsion within the next year or so.

 

[Ianqv]

Red Diesel

Hi All,

So just to re-cap.
Is it ok to have Red Diesel in your fuel tank, with proof of purchase with a 60/40 split if travelling to Belgium?

I'm going across to France soon - are they as Anal as the Belgies?

Many thanks

Ian and Sarah

 

[Gumpy]

Hi All,

So just to re-cap.
Is it ok to have Red Diesel in your fuel tank, with proof of purchase with a 60/40 split if travelling to Belgium?

NO
The boat that was fined had recipts and a log of hours run etc to show that the diesel was bought in the UK and not in Belgium.

In Belgium it is illegal to use Red for propulsion no matter where it is bought.

Beware

 

[sailorman]

NO
The boat that was fined had recipts and a log of hours run etc to show that the diesel was bought in the UK and not in Belgium.

In Belgium it is illegal to use Red for propulsion no matter where it is bought.

Beware

In Belgium it is illegal to use Red for propulsion no matter where it is bought.
i believe you to be wrong. Belgian National returning form the UK may have red in the main tank as long as its bought @ the full vat (100%) is paid NOT the 60/40 split

 

[Gumpy]

Belgian National returning form the UK may have red in the main tank as long as its bought @ the full vat (100%) is paid NOT the 60/40 split

If you believe that then fine.

As far as the Belgium authorities are concerned using fiscally marked diesel (red diesel) is the same as using red diesel in your car over here even if its 100% duty and VAT paid. If you get caught you will get done for it.

BTW The 60/40 split has nothing to do with VAT thats the duty that is split. However the VAT rate on boating fuel here is only 5%

 

[PeterGibbs]

NO

In Belgium it is illegal to use Red for propulsion no matter where it is bought.

Beware

Purchase in Belgium - yes. Use by a foreign vessel when purchased in another country is another consideration. I would appreciate sight of your source for this piece of information, if you are implying all visitors, too, must conform to this standard of usage.

As suggested elsewhere, there are no documented cases of UK registered boats being fined with red only in the tank and full documentation of the tax paid UK source. The question of the 60/40 split for different UK usages / tax rates is irrelevant to the argunment if the fuel is tax paid according to UK regulations. No other EU country has the right to insist that UK tax law conforms to its statutes. If you pay UK VAT on your new boat / car can another state charge you the difference from its VAT rate when you visit? Of course not.

My own experience in Holland last summer was that a proper invoice (not a credit card receipt) showing tax paid in the UK meets the local requirement in respect of fuel carried by a foreign registered vessel. My spare tanks were not checked then but in future I will only carry white in them; why lead with the chin?

Any facts to the contrary will be appreciated.

When you think about the sums of tax involved it is hard to imagine a more piffling consideration. Belgium has long been a tolerant and easy going place to visit. Could this really be changing - hope not.

PWG

 

[Gumpy]

As suggested elsewhere, there are no documented cases of UK registered boats being fined with red only in the tank and full documentation of the tax paid UK source.

I think that this is wrong
A DBA member has been fined inland in Belgium with "tax paid" red in his tanks.
As I said its at your own risk but beware as it has happened.

Julian

 

[sailorman]

I think that this is wrong
A DBA member has been fined inland in Belgium with "tax paid" red in his tanks.
As I said its at your own risk but beware as it has happened.

Julian

did he take it up with the RYA or his MP

 

[Oldgeezer]

This is RYA advice - www.rya.org.uk/cruising/current-issues/Pages/StormcloudsoverBelgium.aspx

If you are fined by the Belgian authorities they are acting illegally.

 

[Koeketiene]

This is RYA advice - www.rya.org.uk/cruising/current-issues/Pages/StormcloudsoverBelgium.aspx

If you are fined by the Belgian authorities they are acting illegally.

Just my £0.02

- Possibly one barge fined inland hardly constitutes a witch-hunt. As I said in my first post (I learned this from the Douane in Ostend), UK yachts are not being targeted or even checked. The focus of their action against 'red' are Belgian & Dutch registered boats.
- All this could have been avoided if Britain had opted to switch to white after the 'red' tax concession for leisure boats expired.
Keeping red just to save marina owners the expense of cleaning their tanks has not done yotties any favours.
And, let's face it, some East Coast marinas could well do with cleaning their tanks. (SYH in particular comes to mind).

 

[Marmalade]

Belgium has long been a tolerant and easy going place to visit. Could this really be changing - hope not.

PWG

Belgies are rule-followers. They like the certainty, or so it seems to me.

But their food is great and the beer outstanding. Vive les Belges...

(or lang leve de Belgische is it?)

 

[Gwylan]

riule followers?

Belgies are rule-followers. They like the certainty, or so it seems to me.

But their food is great and the beer outstanding. Vive les Belges...

(or lang leve de Belgische is it?)

In my long and happy experience there most of their time is spent finding ways around regulations!