GHA
Well-Known Member
He got his money back though.
Belgium Again!
- Thread starter Seven Spades
- Start date
dom
Well-Known Member
And what about he others who didn’t go public? ...unlikely to have been a once-off IMHO.
Foreign visits are meant to be fun; if one finds oneself looking over one’s shoulder - then find somewhere more welcoming and trustworthy
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GHA
Well-Known Member
It's illegal everywhere in Europe, maybe better stay home.. You never know..And what about he others who didn’t go public? ...unlikely to have been a once-off IMHO.
Foreign visits are meant to be fun; if one finds oneself looking over one’s shoulder - then find somewhere more welcoming
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Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
It's illegal everywhere in Europe, maybe better stay home.. You never know..
That's the issue and an interesting point. Why did Belgian customs become so obsessed with what is a relatively minor directive at least as far as the leisure marine industry is concerned which costs Belgium nothing whilst the rest of the EU countries customs officers and their bosses couldn't give a damn?
kalessin
Well-Known Member
CA response
Thanks Vyv for posting the update. The full response from the CA's Regulations & Technical Services (RATS) group is:
"The most unfortunate incident involving the traumatising inspection and fining by Belgium Customs Officials was a misunderstanding by these officials, who did not take into account the agreement we have with Belgium and other EU Maritime States over the presence of UK red diesel in the tank(s) of our boats.
"They were kindly looked after by our contact in Nieuwpoort marina, members of the Royal Belgian Sailing Club and others whose local knowledge and actions quickly resulted in the Belgian authorities admitting the error of the incident. The members have had their fine repaid and are now continuing their voyage.
"RATS has had assurance from their contacts that the understanding we have, as laid out in the RATS note on 'Advice to Members visiting EU Maritime States', continues to be valid and that it is safe to visit Belgian marinas and ports whose staff are keen to make us welcome.
"The key condition is still valid in that you must pay the full 100% propulsion duty on the red diesel purchased for their journey to Belgium and other EU ports. This latest signed invoice must be kept on board the vessel for any inspection."
RATS add that local marina staff are generally keen to assist if there are any further incidents like this.
Camilla Herrmann, Editor, Cruising magazine
Thanks Vyv for posting the update. The full response from the CA's Regulations & Technical Services (RATS) group is:
"The most unfortunate incident involving the traumatising inspection and fining by Belgium Customs Officials was a misunderstanding by these officials, who did not take into account the agreement we have with Belgium and other EU Maritime States over the presence of UK red diesel in the tank(s) of our boats.
"They were kindly looked after by our contact in Nieuwpoort marina, members of the Royal Belgian Sailing Club and others whose local knowledge and actions quickly resulted in the Belgian authorities admitting the error of the incident. The members have had their fine repaid and are now continuing their voyage.
"RATS has had assurance from their contacts that the understanding we have, as laid out in the RATS note on 'Advice to Members visiting EU Maritime States', continues to be valid and that it is safe to visit Belgian marinas and ports whose staff are keen to make us welcome.
"The key condition is still valid in that you must pay the full 100% propulsion duty on the red diesel purchased for their journey to Belgium and other EU ports. This latest signed invoice must be kept on board the vessel for any inspection."
RATS add that local marina staff are generally keen to assist if there are any further incidents like this.
Camilla Herrmann, Editor, Cruising magazine
Cantata
Well-Known Member
Re: CA response
Picking up on this para in the CA note -
"The key condition is still valid in that you must pay the full 100% propulsion duty on the red diesel purchased for their journey to Belgium and other EU ports. This latest signed invoice must be kept on board the vessel for any inspection."
I currently have a full tank with receipts showing 60/40. If my final top-up, say for 30L, before I head across the Channel, is paid at 100%, am I then complying? I always thought I'd need receipts accounting for the amount in the tank, but the wording above suggests that's not necessary.
Picking up on this para in the CA note -
"The key condition is still valid in that you must pay the full 100% propulsion duty on the red diesel purchased for their journey to Belgium and other EU ports. This latest signed invoice must be kept on board the vessel for any inspection."
I currently have a full tank with receipts showing 60/40. If my final top-up, say for 30L, before I head across the Channel, is paid at 100%, am I then complying? I always thought I'd need receipts accounting for the amount in the tank, but the wording above suggests that's not necessary.
chrishscorp
Well-Known Member
Re: CA response
It is slightly ambiguous, I am fortunate in that we only have a 45 litre tank and we normally struggle to use that in a season as we sail where ever we can. So i took the easy descision to pay 100% on all of the fuel we buy as we have nipped over the Channel and anticipate doing so again this year.
It is slightly ambiguous, I am fortunate in that we only have a 45 litre tank and we normally struggle to use that in a season as we sail where ever we can. So i took the easy descision to pay 100% on all of the fuel we buy as we have nipped over the Channel and anticipate doing so again this year.
Concerto
Well-Known Member
Re: CA response
This would have caused me a problem last year in September. I filled up my tank in Dieppe using an automated pump, but it failed to print any receipt. So even though my last purchase was white and 100% tax paid in France, I could never meet this requirement. Sorry Belgium, you will remain on my country to avoid. Their tax authorities are certainly not helping their marine leisure industry.
This would have caused me a problem last year in September. I filled up my tank in Dieppe using an automated pump, but it failed to print any receipt. So even though my last purchase was white and 100% tax paid in France, I could never meet this requirement. Sorry Belgium, you will remain on my country to avoid. Their tax authorities are certainly not helping their marine leisure industry.
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
That would explain why the article suddenly disappeared from the CA website.
Would be helpful if they ad amended the article instead of simply removing it.
Old Harry
Well-Known Member
Old Harry
Well-Known Member
Agreed
dom
Well-Known Member
Re: CA response
Good point. Ultimately, if the Belgian Authorities want to be bloody minded - and they certainly appear to - they will find no end of petty bureaucratic justification to fine British flagged yachts.
Not to mention a mobo loaded with several thousand litres of red, which might cross a hitherto unknown threshold to even more severe consequences.
Ultimately though, one has to respect Belgium's sovereign right to be bolshy to British yachts, and their symmetrical right to sail somewhere more friendly. It would have been so much simpler if they'd just been straight about it!
Good point. Ultimately, if the Belgian Authorities want to be bloody minded - and they certainly appear to - they will find no end of petty bureaucratic justification to fine British flagged yachts.
Not to mention a mobo loaded with several thousand litres of red, which might cross a hitherto unknown threshold to even more severe consequences.
Ultimately though, one has to respect Belgium's sovereign right to be bolshy to British yachts, and their symmetrical right to sail somewhere more friendly. It would have been so much simpler if they'd just been straight about it!
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CLB
Well-Known Member
I can only assume it is because Belgium was one of the countries that lost marked fuel in the original round of red diesel legislation circa 2008. The others using it at that time was Malta, the U.K and Ireland. Ireland of course still do but I guess they are to far away from Belgium for it to be a problem.
Robin
Well-Known Member
With a coastline under 40 miles long it is easy enough to go right on by.and avoid risk of unpleasantness. OK Belgium, I know where we are not wanted, Message received and understood. besides cheap plonk beats gnats pee anytime..
Old Harry
Well-Known Member
I can only assume you are not familiar with the diverse Belgian biers. Far better that what you have been used to in the land of the free
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Bonjour monsieur Davies,
Les produits énergétiques livrés en vue d’une utilisation comme carburant ou combustible pour la navigation de plaisance privée ne sont pas exonérés de l’accise dans le cadre d’une navigation dans des eaux communautaires et sur des voies navigables intérieures (art. 429, § 1er g) et § 2 g) de la loi-programme du 27 décembre 2004 ; art. 37 et 43 de l’Arrêté Royal du 28.06.2015 concernant la taxation des produits énergétiques).
J’espère avoir pu répondre à votre question.
Bien à vous,
Jennifer Smets
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De : Benoit P.F. Ronsmans (MINFIN) De la part de Minfin Info Douane (MINFIN)
Envoyé : lundi 6 mai 2019 13:40
À : Minfin Da Ops Acc (MINFIN) <da.ops.acc@minfin.fed.be>
Objet : TR: Red Diesel
Bonjour chers collègues,
Nous avons reçu l'e-mail ci-dessous. Le client souhaite visiter la Belgique à l'aide de son bateau et veut en savoir plus à propos de l'usage du diesel rouge dans ce cas de figure.
Pourriez-vous SVP lui répondre ? Si cela devait dépendre d'un autre service, n'hésitez pas à nous le signaler.
Merci d'avance pour votre aide.
Bien à vous.
Dienst PR&C - Communicatie AAD&A
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De : Stu Davies
Envoyé : lundi 6 mai 2019 09:59
À : Minfin Info Douane (MINFIN)
Objet : Red Diesel
Sir
I am thinking of visiting Belgium in my boat. I understand some British Yachts have been fined again for having red diesel in their tanks despite assurances that we can still use under certain circumstances?
Can you enlighten us please?
https://www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_in_EU
Cantata
Well-Known Member
Well Stu, Ms Smets certainly isn't any help, is she?! Perhaps she should put herself in front of the Mayors of Niewpoort, Oostende, Blankenberge and Zeebrugge and see what they have to say about it.
GHA
Well-Known Member
Re: CA response
This looks like one bloke made a mistake which was rectified when the authorities official stance was applied.
Where?
This looks like one bloke made a mistake which was rectified when the authorities official stance was applied.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Re: CA response
Exactly. As I suggested before, overzealous staffer. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Exactly. As I suggested before, overzealous staffer. Nothing to see here. Move along.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Disappeared?? As far as I know it has been there ever since the OP started the thread. It is there now. On top of that Camilla has posted the RATs post from the CA thread here #105.
