Belgium Again!

[GHA]

4

“Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!”

He got his money back though.

 

[dom]

He got his money back though.

And what about he others who didn’t go public? ...unlikely to have been a once-off IMHO.

Foreign visits are meant to be fun; if one finds oneself looking over one’s shoulder - then find somewhere more welcoming and trustworthy

 

[GHA]

And what about he others who didn’t go public? ...unlikely to have been a once-off IMHO.

Foreign visits are meant to be fun; if one finds oneself looking over one’s shoulder - then find somewhere more welcoming

It's illegal everywhere in Europe, maybe better stay home.. You never know..

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It's illegal everywhere in Europe, maybe better stay home.. You never know..

That's the issue and an interesting point. Why did Belgian customs become so obsessed with what is a relatively minor directive at least as far as the leisure marine industry is concerned which costs Belgium nothing whilst the rest of the EU countries customs officers and their bosses couldn't give a damn?

 

[kalessin]

CA response

Thanks Vyv for posting the update. The full response from the CA's Regulations & Technical Services (RATS) group is:

"The most unfortunate incident involving the traumatising inspection and fining by Belgium Customs Officials was a misunderstanding by these officials, who did not take into account the agreement we have with Belgium and other EU Maritime States over the presence of UK red diesel in the tank(s) of our boats.

"They were kindly looked after by our contact in Nieuwpoort marina, members of the Royal Belgian Sailing Club and others whose local knowledge and actions quickly resulted in the Belgian authorities admitting the error of the incident. The members have had their fine repaid and are now continuing their voyage.

"RATS has had assurance from their contacts that the understanding we have, as laid out in the RATS note on 'Advice to Members visiting EU Maritime States', continues to be valid and that it is safe to visit Belgian marinas and ports whose staff are keen to make us welcome.

"The key condition is still valid in that you must pay the full 100% propulsion duty on the red diesel purchased for their journey to Belgium and other EU ports. This latest signed invoice must be kept on board the vessel for any inspection."

RATS add that local marina staff are generally keen to assist if there are any further incidents like this.

Camilla Herrmann, Editor, Cruising magazine

 

[Cantata]

Re: CA response

Picking up on this para in the CA note -

"The key condition is still valid in that you must pay the full 100% propulsion duty on the red diesel purchased for their journey to Belgium and other EU ports. This latest signed invoice must be kept on board the vessel for any inspection."

I currently have a full tank with receipts showing 60/40. If my final top-up, say for 30L, before I head across the Channel, is paid at 100%, am I then complying? I always thought I'd need receipts accounting for the amount in the tank, but the wording above suggests that's not necessary.

 

[chrishscorp]

Re: CA response

Picking up on this para in the CA note -

"The key condition is still valid in that you must pay the full 100% propulsion duty on the red diesel purchased for their journey to Belgium and other EU ports. This latest signed invoice must be kept on board the vessel for any inspection."

I currently have a full tank with receipts showing 60/40. If my final top-up, say for 30L, before I head across the Channel, is paid at 100%, am I then complying? I always thought I'd need receipts accounting for the amount in the tank, but the wording above suggests that's not necessary.

It is slightly ambiguous, I am fortunate in that we only have a 45 litre tank and we normally struggle to use that in a season as we sail where ever we can. So i took the easy descision to pay 100% on all of the fuel we buy as we have nipped over the Channel and anticipate doing so again this year.

 

[Concerto]

Re: CA response

"The key condition is still valid in that you must pay the full 100% propulsion duty on the red diesel purchased for their journey to Belgium and other EU ports. This latest signed invoice must be kept on board the vessel for any inspection."

This would have caused me a problem last year in September. I filled up my tank in Dieppe using an automated pump, but it failed to print any receipt. So even though my last purchase was white and 100% tax paid in France, I could never meet this requirement. Sorry Belgium, you will remain on my country to avoid. Their tax authorities are certainly not helping their marine leisure industry.

 

[Tomahawk]

Following questions from the CA's RATS team the Belgian authorities have admitted that they were mistaken and the fine has been repaid.

That would explain why the article suddenly disappeared from the CA website.

Would be helpful if they ad amended the article instead of simply removing it.

 

[Old Harry]

Re: CA response

This would have caused me a problem last year in September. I filled up my tank in Dieppe using an automated pump, but it failed to print any receipt. So even though my last purchase was white and 100% tax paid in France, I could never meet this requirement. Sorry Belgium, you will remain on my country to avoid. Their tax authorities are certainly not helping their marine leisure industry.

you used a CC to obtain that fuel so proof would be on a phone app

 

[Old Harry]

That would explain why the article suddenly disappeared from the CA website.

Would be helpful if they ad amended the article instead of simply removing it.

Agreed

 

[dom]

Re: CA response

This would have caused me a problem last year in September. I filled up my tank in Dieppe using an automated pump, but it failed to print any receipt. So even though my last purchase was white and 100% tax paid in France, I could never meet this requirement. Sorry Belgium, you will remain on my country to avoid.

Good point. Ultimately, if the Belgian Authorities want to be bloody minded - and they certainly appear to - they will find no end of petty bureaucratic justification to fine British flagged yachts.

Not to mention a mobo loaded with several thousand litres of red, which might cross a hitherto unknown threshold to even more severe consequences.

Ultimately though, one has to respect Belgium's sovereign right to be bolshy to British yachts, and their symmetrical right to sail somewhere more friendly. It would have been so much simpler if they'd just been straight about it!

 

[CLB]

Fixed penalty. The owner was quite shocked and upset, left Nieuwport immediately.

That's the issue and an interesting point. Why did Belgian customs become so obsessed with what is a relatively minor directive at least as far as the leisure marine industry is concerned which costs Belgium nothing whilst the rest of the EU countries customs officers and their bosses couldn't give a damn?

I can only assume it is because Belgium was one of the countries that lost marked fuel in the original round of red diesel legislation circa 2008. The others using it at that time was Malta, the U.K and Ireland. Ireland of course still do but I guess they are to far away from Belgium for it to be a problem.

 

[Robin]

With a coastline under 40 miles long it is easy enough to go right on by.and avoid risk of unpleasantness. OK Belgium, I know where we are not wanted, Message received and understood. besides cheap plonk beats gnats pee anytime..

 

[Old Harry]

With a coastline under 40 miles long it is easy enough to go right on by.and avoid risk of unpleasantness. OK Belgium, I know where we are not wanted, Message received and understood. besides cheap plonk beats gnats pee anytime..

I can only assume you are not familiar with the diverse Belgian biers. Far better that what you have been used to in the land of the free

 

[Heckler]

A yachtsman has just ben fined €500 for having tax paid red diesel in his tanks. I don't know where this has happened but the boat concerned bought fuel in Dover and paid tax on 100% of the fuel but was still fined. Probably better to give Belgium a miss again if you have any red in your tanks.

Bonjour monsieur Davies,



Les produits énergétiques livrés en vue d’une utilisation comme carburant ou combustible pour la navigation de plaisance privée ne sont pas exonérés de l’accise dans le cadre d’une navigation dans des eaux communautaires et sur des voies navigables intérieures (art. 429, § 1er g) et § 2 g) de la loi-programme du 27 décembre 2004 ; art. 37 et 43 de l’Arrêté Royal du 28.06.2015 concernant la taxation des produits énergétiques).



J’espère avoir pu répondre à votre question.



Bien à vous,



Jennifer Smets
Expert financier

SPF Finances | Douanes & Accises | Opérations | Composante Centrale | Accises

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De : Benoit P.F. Ronsmans (MINFIN) De la part de Minfin Info Douane (MINFIN)
Envoyé : lundi 6 mai 2019 13:40
À : Minfin Da Ops Acc (MINFIN) <da.ops.acc@minfin.fed.be>
Objet : TR: Red Diesel



Bonjour chers collègues,



Nous avons reçu l'e-mail ci-dessous. Le client souhaite visiter la Belgique à l'aide de son bateau et veut en savoir plus à propos de l'usage du diesel rouge dans ce cas de figure.



Pourriez-vous SVP lui répondre ? Si cela devait dépendre d'un autre service, n'hésitez pas à nous le signaler.



Merci d'avance pour votre aide.



Bien à vous.




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Boulevard du Roi Albert II 33, boîte 37 - 1030 Bruxelles


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De : Stu Davies
Envoyé : lundi 6 mai 2019 09:59
À : Minfin Info Douane (MINFIN)

Objet : Red Diesel




Sir

I am thinking of visiting Belgium in my boat. I understand some British Yachts have been fined again for having red diesel in their tanks despite assurances that we can still use under certain circumstances?

Can you enlighten us please?

https://www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_in_EU

 

[Cantata]

Well Stu, Ms Smets certainly isn't any help, is she?! Perhaps she should put herself in front of the Mayors of Niewpoort, Oostende, Blankenberge and Zeebrugge and see what they have to say about it.

 

[GHA]

Re: CA response

Good point. Ultimately, if the Belgian Authorities want to be bloody minded - and they certainly appear to -

Where?
This looks like one bloke made a mistake which was rectified when the authorities official stance was applied.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Re: CA response

Where?
This looks like one bloke made a mistake which was rectified when the authorities official stance was applied.

Exactly. As I suggested before, overzealous staffer. Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[vyv_cox]

That would explain why the article suddenly disappeared from the CA website.

Would be helpful if they ad amended the article instead of simply removing it.

Disappeared?? As far as I know it has been there ever since the OP started the thread. It is there now. On top of that Camilla has posted the RATs post from the CA thread here #105.