Being seen whilst on night passages.

footsoldier said:
1 When other traffic is bigger or faster than you (which for sailing yachts means virtually everything, always) - stay out of its way long before any situation arises where you even have to consider ColRegs implications.
Click to expand...
That is difficult in the Dover Strait , English Channel & Southern N Sea.
Big ships do not like uncertainty. I was sailing under wind steering & the boat was following an "S" course due to fickle wind shifts. I was called up by a ship at a range of 10 miles to confirm my course & speed & to hold it, so the skipper could take the necessary action to avoid me. Clearly, If I had started to change course to avoid it at, say, 5 miles it would have caused confusion.
I did start to alter course in the Dover Strait once to avoid a coaster & was called up & asked to carry on as he, being the give way vessel, would deal with the situation.
One really has to look carefully at the colregs before making a change. If in doubt call the other vessel. I have done so & been asked to make course changes, because the other vessel has been unable to change course due to vessels elsewhere. One cannot always see the big picture & the consequences of one's actions.
 
PlankWalker said:
Now that you've ruined your night vision, how are you going to see the vessel comming at you.
Click to expand...
You do not have to shine the torch into your face, You will only frighten the kids. You aim it at the sail & do not look up at it while you are doing it. In the 70s in a small yacht, with poor battery power & useless nav lights, it was a very common procedure to light up the sails. I never recall losing vision. However, having a crew there would always be one of us with the sense to look the other way.
 
Skylark said:
A (main) sail diffuses white light quite well. It does not need a very powerful lamp to illuminate it. Five flashes towards the main is a good way to send the “your intentions are unclear” signal. With a little forethought, blinding night vision for those on deck can easily be avoided.
Click to expand...
which is fine for them as 'ave them newfangled white sails. Speaking as a gaffer....
 
FinesseChris said:
which is fine for them as 'ave them newfangled white sails. Speaking as a gaffer....
Click to expand...
Not a problem then.
You are always tied up at some quay posing to the public whilst you tie baggy wrinkle to your shrouds smell of tar & fish & grow scraggy grey facial hair.
Not to mention, checking the tide tables for the next LW, so that you can get below when the water level in the bilges is a bit lower. ? ? ?
Gaffers coming to Stone this year? I have not been asked to do a ferry service yet. Dunno why :oops:
 
Last edited:
john_morris_uk said:
This is dangerously inaccurate on several counts.

I agree that big ship watchkeepers primary sources of information about other vessels are radar and AIS but they do look out of the window sometimes too. (Usually/often to visually identify what they’ve seen on the radar…)

To suggest IRPCS should be ignored and you should ‘just keep well clear of big ships’ makes no sense at all. As you make some wild alterations because a ship has come into sight and for some reason you think it might get close to you, it leads watchkeepers on big ships wondering what in earth that yacht is going to do next. IRPCS are not optional extras for you to ignore. By all means don’t get into close quarters and dangerous situations, but if you’re the stand on vessel then you should stand on until (as the rules say) you realise the other vessel isn’t taking action and you take the appropriate action (in accordance with the rules) yourself.
FWIW we have good lights, AIS class B with transponder and Radar fitted on our boat.
One of the really good things about AIS is that it’s become obvious to yachts that most every ship does actually see you and does obey IRPCS and alter to avoid collision.
And the above from time on the bridge of various ships from Channel ferries to tankers to warships.
In the Med it can be a different story, but that’s another topic.
Click to expand...
I think in busy shipping lanes you can expect a watchkeeper to look out of the window. Crossing an ocean is a totally different issue. By comparison there is very little out there. We have had to take evasive action twice for large ships on a collision course. We have an AIS transponder (and yes it does work) but that doesn't help if the watchkeeper is asleep, drunk, not there or on the loo. Shining a light at the sails ain't going to work. You need to be ready to move.
 
I’ve had to use the “torch on the sail ” once - sailing slowly eastwards with just the Genoa up on a May Sunday evening as the tide wasn’t right for Chichester harbour entrance until 7:00pm, so it was getting towards dusk and everybody else had gone home.

Off Gilkicker, we heard the hovercraft leave Ryde heading towards Portsmouth. We watched as it came straight towards us and it was clear they hadn’t seen us - probably due to the lights on the shore behind us.
At about 400 metres I shone a high power torch onto our Genoa and within seconds we saw a change in direction.

We were a “ sitting target” , doing only 3 knots or so there was no way I could have got out of the way and yes we were transmitting on AIS and have a radar reflector. So, sometimes all the planning and forward avoidance planning does not help.
 
geem said:
I think in busy shipping lanes you can expect a watchkeeper to look out of the window. Crossing an ocean is a totally different issue. By comparison there is very little out there. We have had to take evasive action twice for large ships on a collision course. We have an AIS transponder (and yes it does work) but that doesn't help if the watchkeeper is asleep, drunk, not there or on the loo. Shining a light at the sails ain't going to work. You need to be ready to move.
Click to expand...
You’re not contradicting anything I’ve said.
Actually (standfast the whole business as to whether they’ve seen you) encountering big ships on ocean crossings is rare in my experience. When it does happen, they’re usually very happy to have a chat on the VHF as it alleviates their boredom. (Watch keeping on a merchant ship mid ocean can be mind numbingly tedious.)
 
john_morris_uk said:
you make some wild alterations because a ship has come into sight and for some reason you think it might get close to you, it leads watchkeepers on big ships wondering what in earth that yacht is going to do next.
Click to expand...
I was told that on the bridge this immediately transforms the sailing vessel into a WAFI, Wind Assisted F..g Idiot. :)
 
Ian_Rob said:
…but contrary to the diagram, never the tricolour and side navigation lights together.
Click to expand...

Look at the diagram again. It is NOT a tricolor, it is red over green. "Red over green, sailing machine" is a commonly taught phrase for remembering this one. The required vertical separation is one meter. As for 360 visability, the diagram is from a USCG publication. That said, these are often mounted on a mast (it does not make the boat a full meter taller, because there is already an antenna up there).

COLREGS, rule 25:
c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in Rule 25(a), exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by Rule 25(b). Sailing Vessel Underway

I don't sail at night very often, but if visability were my concern, I would do this in a heartbeat.

One advantage of a tricolor is that it is visable over waves. A disadvantage of the tricolor, which was not mentioned, is the same as that of a single top of mast anchor light; a fast moving small boat may not look up. The red-over-green gives you markings both high and low.

Good quality LED marker lights for trucks are available for a song and can mount flush on the mast.
 
From my limited experiences of night passages, when coming upon a fishing vessel I might be tempted to turn off nav lights and definitely not draw attention to myself by shining a light on my sails!

Crossing from Dublin to Peel overnight I found a fishing vessel changing course to keep in my way. He beared away eventually and I was able to return to my heading in short order. On the way back, a companion vessel had to turn around 180 deg and head back the other way because a fishing vessel kept changing course and kept blocking his way.

I've read several reports (some on here) of there being no one on the bridge as a vessel passed close by.

I'd like to get inside the head of these fishermen - why do they do it? Do they feel that posh yachties are invading their sea?
 
The light on the sails can be useful in situations where you want to be sure they have seen exactly your boat and are not mistaken for example with another nearby vessel: if you are in radio contact say "look on your port bow it's me flashing a light over the sails". :)
 
Neil said:
From my limited experiences of night passages, when coming upon a fishing vessel I might be tempted to turn off nav lights and definitely not draw attention to myself by shining a light on my sails!

Crossing from Dublin to Peel overnight I found a fishing vessel changing course to keep in my way. He beared away eventually and I was able to return to my heading in short order. On the way back, a companion vessel had to turn around 180 deg and head back the other way because a fishing vessel kept changing course and kept blocking his way.

I've read several reports (some on here) of there being no one on the bridge as a vessel passed close by.

I'd like to get inside the head of these fishermen - why do they do it? Do they feel that posh yachties are invading their sea?
Click to expand...

When a fishing vessel finds a concentration of fish, they will often steer a figure 8 pattern, passing through the shoal repeatedly. They are at work; we are at leisure...that is why we are obliged to stay out of their way under ColRegs.
 
pandos said:
This is an interesting option that I confess never occurred to me.

Looking at it on another forum one poster fitted a masthead all round red light, and fitted 4 separate green lights a meter down from the masthead.
Click to expand...
A similar system is used on some large square-rigged sail training vessels, which have a 180-degree red and green lights on both sides of the mast. I believe this option is in the COLREGs, as is the 1m spacing between the red and green lights.
 
It would be handy if someone made a strip of green LEDs or bank of single lights, pre wired, on a rubber background that one could wrap around the mast ( Not over the luff groove of course) & rivet in place with 6 rivets. Then a conduit up to a red light for fitting on the mast top with a white anchor light/ steaming light above.
 
About 50 years ago when I first sailed night passages around N Scotland we kept a very careful watch and turned the cabin side mounted navigation lights on if we saw a ship within a few miles. Don't laugh - we only had one large car battery to do everything. I became expert at judging the rate of bearing change for a ship to know how close it might come, and if it was fishing. If it came close, the cabin lights went on. There was not much traffic and only very rarely did we move course for a fishing boat (and they often came close by to wave a greeting). More scary by far was motoring in the thick East Coast hars with the mast top in sunlight and 50m visibility down below and only a foghorn and radar reflector for protection.

With hindsight, adulthood and training, the Colregs combined with keeping a good watch from on deck seem pretty sensible to me as long as everyone abides by them. AIS, LEDs, radar and a helm position about 6 feet higher than those days make me feel much safer.
 
12 Year Plan B-) said:
When a fishing vessel finds a concentration of fish, they will often steer a figure 8 pattern, passing through the shoal repeatedly. They are at work; we are at leisure...that is why we are obliged to stay out of their way under ColRegs.
Click to expand...
Fishing vessels may also be restricted in their ability to avoid other vessels owing to outlying gear such as nets, longlines, trawls, or strings of pots.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

T
Notices to Mariners - Week 01 of 2026(!)
Replies
9
Views
1K
tillergirl
T

Share this page

Top