BBC Report on Power boat and jet ski harassing swimers

[Bathdave]

Someone local told me while I was there last month that there was a new harbourmaster in Salcombe this year and he had come down very hard on dangerous RIB and jet ski usuage including impounding the vessels concerned

it highlights that it’s possible if there is a will

 

[xyachtdave]

Is there a need for new legislation? There must be an existing (boatie or non-boatie) offence that deals with that kind of intentional insane recklessness, isn't there?

Can someone with some legal knowledge confirm?

EDIT: There is in Scotland, suspect there is in Wales/England. Culpable and reckless conduct - Wikipedia

Not sure about legals of reckless conduct but I do know the following from a reliable source.

If you drive your car through a speed camera etc you'll get a notice of intending prosecution to name the driver. If you refuse or give a false name you're probably going to prison.

A Jetski, launched at a local ramp, with signs everywhere explaining no PWC launching, where the speed limits are and where you could launch it etc .

So if there's CCTV footage of a meathead doing a few lines of cocaine before launching from the above ramp, going nuts on his Jetski, terrorises everyone on water and leaves after blocking people in the car park with his pick up truck and trailer for 4 hours, what can you do?

You've got his registration number from CCTV, so can identify him.

Unfortunately there's no legal mechanism to make him identify the rider of the PWC. as in the case of the car.

'Wasn't me and I can't remember who was riding it, sorry,' Try that with a motoring offence.

And there's the problem.

 

[Mark-1]

Not sure about legals of reckless conduct but I do know the following from a reliable source.

If you drive your car through a speed camera etc you'll get a notice of intending prosecution to name the driver. If you refuse or give a false name you're probably going to prison.

A Jetski, launched at a local ramp, with signs everywhere explaining no PWC launching, where the speed limits are and where you could launch it etc .

So if there's CCTV footage of a meathead doing a few lines of cocaine before launching from the above ramp, going nuts on his Jetski, terrorises everyone on water and leaves after blocking people in the car park with his pick up truck and trailer for 4 hours, what can you do?

You've got his registration number from CCTV, so can identify him.

Unfortunately there's no legal mechanism to make him identify the rider of the PWC. as in the case of the car.

'Wasn't me and I can't remember who was riding it, sorry,' Try that with a motoring offence.

And there's the problem.

I don't think identifying the driver in this specific case is a problem but I see where you're coming from. You want boats to have something akin to reg number - a very visible unique identifier tied to a specific individual who is responsible keeper and carries the can if a driver can't be identified.

Fair enough. Personally, I don't want that and I think it's impractical, but I do now see what people are suggesting and the problem it solves.

 

[laika]

In studland yesterday first mate objected to me swimming ashore saying that it was only a matter of time before some nutcase hit a swimmer. Isn't there already a jetski area on the south side of the bay? Yet some of them (I'm not tarring all jetskiers with the same brush) going full throttle through anchored boats and past paddle boarders. Those little leisure/fishing motor boats like Dexter used to dump the bodies seem to be popular with people with no conception of speed limits too. The swell from a light north easterly in studland is nothing compared to wake.

Maybe instead of a "no anchoring" area in studland they could have a "no engine" area. As well as making it safer for swimmers, it would force folk to practice their boat handling under sail.

 

[ashtead]

I looked to me as though the people on the paddle board were part of that group. However there is a more general point here. Studland has a 5knt limit yet both powerboats and jet skis lobe to cause havoc on the anchorage and there is no enforcement. If you go to Hamble point and Hasler you will see a number of police vessels that never seem to do anything useful as far as I can see. If they went to Studland they could become self financing and solve a huge social problem a the same time.`

It might be that this wa posted tongue in cheek but police vessels serve an important purpose in addition to being an easy emotive topic for the local commissioner to use by threatening to shut down in protest at police budgets not being large enough . I have always found the officers crewing the police launches a cut above the average ones in terms of skill set and outlook so in addition to their security tole they no doubt provide safety services and have the unenviable task of body recovery etc. That said maybe a few of the QHM volunteers who seem well trained to jetski control could be spared in stud land and I doubt would be that missed by most yachtsman . I see a real sponsorship opportunity here for a suitable green corporate .

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I suppose we can be thankful that they have jet drive and not naked propellers.

 

[Blue Sunray]

It might be that this wa posted tongue in cheek but police vessels serve an important purpose in addition to being an easy emotive topic for the local commissioner to use by threatening to shut down in protest at police budgets not being large enough . I have always found the officers crewing the police launches a cut above the average ones in terms of skill set and outlook so in addition to their security tole they no doubt provide safety services and have the unenviable task of body recovery etc. That said maybe a few of the QHM volunteers who seem well trained to jetski control could be spared in stud land and I doubt would be that missed by most yachtsman . I see a real sponsorship opportunity here for a suitable green corporate .

There's a pool (excuse the pun) of semi-retired maritime traffic wardens much nearer at hand.

What We Do - Maritime Volunteer Service

 

[xyachtdave]

I don't think identifying the driver in this specific case is a problem but I see where you're coming from. You want boats to have something akin to reg number - a very visible unique identifier tied to a specific individual who is responsible keeper and carries the can if a driver can't be identified.

Fair enough. Personally, I don't want that and I think it's impractical, but I do now see what people are suggesting and the problem it solves.

The point that I didn’t make clearly but was aiming for was that when a local harbour authority decides to try and tackle the issue there’s a lot of obstacles in the way of getting a prosecution.

You’re right of course about registration, only the sensible ones will bother with that not the idiots.

Same with uninsured cars driven without licences etc, you legislate against it but you can’t stop stupid.

When they ran out of fuel in this case, should have been left to get on with it. Maybe a night drifting around in the cold with no tea would give them a chance to reflect on their actions!

 

[JNKScot]

Not sure about legals of reckless conduct but I do know the following from a reliable source.

If you drive your car through a speed camera etc you'll get a notice of intending prosecution to name the driver. If you refuse or give a false name you're probably going to prison.

A Jetski, launched at a local ramp, with signs everywhere explaining no PWC launching, where the speed limits are and where you could launch it etc .

So if there's CCTV footage of a meathead doing a few lines of cocaine before launching from the above ramp, going nuts on his Jetski, terrorises everyone on water and leaves after blocking people in the car park with his pick up truck and trailer for 4 hours, what can you do?

You've got his registration number from CCTV, so can identify him.

Unfortunately there's no legal mechanism to make him identify the rider of the PWC. as in the case of the car.

'Wasn't me and I can't remember who was riding it, sorry,' Try that with a motoring offence.

And there's the problem.

That's why impounding the offending craft works; no necessity to identify the operator (driver) or fine them; craft unavailable for use and, if the offence has not been caused by the owner, a personal sorting out of the offender by the owner will ensue.

 

[greeny]

Not sure about legals of reckless conduct but I do know the following from a reliable source.

If you drive your car through a speed camera etc you'll get a notice of intending prosecution to name the driver. If you refuse or give a false name you're probably going to prison.

A Jetski, launched at a local ramp, with signs everywhere explaining no PWC launching, where the speed limits are and where you could launch it etc .

So if there's CCTV footage of a meathead doing a few lines of cocaine before launching from the above ramp, going nuts on his Jetski, terrorises everyone on water and leaves after blocking people in the car park with his pick up truck and trailer for 4 hours, what can you do?

You've got his registration number from CCTV, so can identify him.

Unfortunately there's no legal mechanism to make him identify the rider of the PWC. as in the case of the car.

'Wasn't me and I can't remember who was riding it, sorry,' Try that with a motoring offence.

And there's the problem.

Just confiscate the jetski then.

 

[Pye_End]

Awful up the Medway at the moment. Took a photo of a head the other week as it screamed past inches from the guardrail. A few days later there were several of them in and out of the moorings, in the dark, at speed, no lights. Nobody seems to care about sorting out the river by the Strand, and further up.

Herne Bay seems much better since they started managing the launching facilities this year. Suspect the 'bad eggs' now go elsewhere.

 

[mrming]

You often encounter jet skis by the Kingsferry bridge in the Swale as they launch from a slip there. We had them buzzing us a couple of metres away at what seemed like at least 30 knots. My strategy was not to react and they soon got bored. The bridgekeeper noted them as a hazard on the VHF to both us and a cargo vessel coming through the other way. In the bridgekeeper’s words “they don’t care”.

 

[Ian_Rob]

In studland yesterday first mate objected to me swimming ashore saying that it was only a matter of time before some nutcase hit a swimmer. Isn't there already a jetski area on the south side of the bay? Yet some of them (I'm not tarring all jetskiers with the same brush) going full throttle through anchored boats and past paddle boarders. Those little leisure/fishing motor boats like Dexter used to dump the bodies seem to be popular with people with no conception of speed limits too. The swell from a light north easterly in studland is nothing compared to wake.

Maybe instead of a "no anchoring" area in studland they could have a "no engine" area. As well as making it safer for swimmers, it would force folk to practice their boat handling under sail.

We were in Studland on the 21st July and there was a group of 4 jet skiers charging around late into the evening together with an accompanying high powered black rib (Dad?) . The jet skis were making very aggressive manoeuvres for 40 mins or so, which my wife found very intimidating. The family(?) finally cleared off at very high speed towards Poole just before it got dark.

 

[oldgit]

Flog them to within an inch of their worthless miserable lives.

Or how about designated areas buoyed off to deconflict swimmers and boats of all sorts? This is a common tactic along virtually the whole of med. Spain and seems to work well.

Isle of Sheppey. Kent. Minster Beach . .... ferrinstance and other seasonal beaches ? ..........
Merely nobody around except in high summer to monitor the situation , when the volunteer lifeguards ie. RNLI lads/ girls are around.
Peel Ports have now apparently a very quick rib on their fleet. ?

There is a well known and long established PWC/ Ski club with launch site just the west of Kingsferry Bridge, they have rules regards the area used for "messing about" which prohibits club members operating east of the bridge ie opposite Kingsferry Boat Club and mile or so west, well before 8 knot limit in Queenborough Harbour.
Unfortunately there are one or two spots known the locals where stuff can be launched .
Perhaps ALL all PWC should be required to have a large bold ID number such as fishing boats have, to help identify miscreants, the absence/removal of any such mark would indicate something about the owner and intentions.
Personally do not have problem with PWC/Ski boats or Hovercraft for that matter, especially on the plane, they cause less inconvenience to me than a large mobo (fly bridge or tentboat) creating small mountains of wash as they pass.
Have been on the wrong end of the beach guardians in Majorca, transgressing a area bouyed off for swimmers when collecting somebody from the beach using a small inflatable.
Was pursued back out to our boat anchored offshore boat by a chap on jet jet ski and told off in no uncertain terms.
Common sense should have told me the danger I was to other people.........................

 

[chrishscorp]

Is there a need for new legislation? There must be an existing (boatie or non-boatie) offence that deals with that kind of intentional insane recklessness, isn't there?

My understanding is that PWCs are not covered by the Merchant Shipping Act and that is where the problem lies so nothing can be done other than a local bylaw and that as we know is far from easy or cheap to enforce.

I looked to me as though the people on the paddle board were part of that group. However there is a more general point here. Studland has a 5knt limit yet both powerboats and jet skis lobe to cause havoc on the anchorage and there is no enforcement. If you go to Hamble point and Hasler you will see a number of police vessels that never seem to do anything useful as far as I can see. If they went to Studland they could become self financing and solve a huge social problem a the same time.`

The Police boats in Portsmouth Harbour are MOD Police, not Hampshire plod, which is why the are armed with MP6 machine guns ( ideal for dealing with jet skis ) they are there to protect the dockyard. In Portsmouth you need a licencse from QHM to set foot inside the harbour if your on a jetski and that is enforced.

Someone local told me while I was there last month that there was a new harbourmaster in Salcombe this year and he had come down very hard on dangerous RIB and jet ski usuage including impounding the vessels concerned

it highlights that it’s possible if there is a will

We were in Salcombe in July this year, large numbers of youngsters in ribs and small sports boats many openly drinking whilst using the boats ie crates or cases of tins and bottles on board that was quite an alarming sight and when it got dark i regretted my decision to take a visitors buoy off the town as many of them were still whizzing around but with out any lights, that is the first harbour i have visited that i will be unlikely to return too as neither of us was particularly comfortable with the situation.

 

[Mark-1]

My understanding is that PWCs are not covered by the Merchant Shipping Act and that is where the problem lies so nothing can be done other than a local bylaw .

Fence posts aren't covered by the MSA but I very much doubt I can throw them off a building into a crowded street without breaking some law or other. Certainly, I can't in Scotland.

However, nobody has been able to cite a England and Wales recklessness law so perhaps there is no law preventing people recklessly putting other people in extreme danger.

 

[chrishscorp]

Fence posts aren't covered by the MSA but I very much doubt I can throw them off a building into a crowded street without breaking some law or other. Certainly, I can't in Scotland.

However, nobody has been able to cite a England and Wales recklessness law so perhaps there is no law preventing people recklessly putting other people in extreme danger.

Scottish Legal system is quite different to the English one, once an injury is caused prosecution could be brought

We can only hope that the law is changed before someone is killed by one of these thick wits

 

[James_Calvert]

My understanding is that PWCs are not covered by the Merchant Shipping Act and that is where the problem lies so nothing can be done other than a local bylaw and that as we know is far from easy or cheap to enforce.



The Police boats in Portsmouth Harbour are MOD Police, not Hampshire plod, which is why the are armed with MP6 machine guns ( ideal for dealing with jet skis ) they are there to protect the dockyard. In Portsmouth you need a licencse from QHM to set foot inside the harbour if your on a jetski and that is enforced.



We were in Salcombe in July this year, large numbers of youngsters in ribs and small sports boats many openly drinking whilst using the boats ie crates or cases of tins and bottles on board that was quite an alarming sight and when it got dark i regretted my decision to take a visitors buoy off the town as many of them were still whizzing around but with out any lights, that is the first harbour i have visited that i will be unlikely to return too as neither of us was particularly comfortable with the situation.

One thing about Salcombe is that boaters and bathers mix on the beaches. They are often the same people, so there's a lot of mutual understanding instead of the antagonism that can lead to zoned areas and the like.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Usually, nothing happens until something really unpleasant happens. Normally loss of life.

I noticed a chap yesterday, probably in his forties, with a young child on his knees motoring his electric foot type scooter in the middle of busy road.

 

[Pye_End]

Usually, nothing happens until something really unpleasant happens. Normally loss of life.

I noticed a chap yesterday, probably in his forties, with a young child on his knees motoring his electric foot type scooter in the middle of busy road.

Loss of life has happened, but seems to make little difference to some.