Bayesian Interim Report

Cerebus said:
I do not know if they were good anchors on the tv yachts. To my eye they seemed to be designed more for “fitting in the pocket” or looking aesthetically pleasing rather than being good anchors.
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These large yachts have quite strict inspection regimes, this would have had to be compliant with the rules of the classification society which specifies minimum anchor arrangements. In this case the American Bureau of Shipping. It wouldn't surprise me if they carry some that look nice and aren't really intended for use at all. But their main anchor is adequate.

The anchorage was actually quite a way off the coast, it would be odd to put out two anchors in such a location and at such depth. 50m would require 10 shackles or about 270m of chain. Two anchors would run the risk of a really awkward tangle when the boat swings.

From the interim report, it just looks like a bad boat. A knock down with the rig intact should not sink a sailing vessel in my opinion (which is of course worthless).
 
WindyWindyWindy said:
These large yachts have quite strict inspection regimes, this would have had to be compliant with the rules of the classification society which specifies minimum anchor arrangements.
...

From the interim report, it just looks like a bad boat. A knock down with the rig intact should not sink a sailing vessel in my opinion (which is of course worthless).
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First point. Indulge my dit please?
I was once ...a long long time ago...a UK DTp (Dept of Transport) Engineer and Ship Surveyor...the "good old days" before yacht codes and the MCA were even a thing.
I walked off several large superyachts, then under survey as Ships under UK Merchant Shipping legislation. This was because some crews/owners /managers refused to comply as they saw themselves as "special". They refused to comply with standards set for the little people. The final straw was the refusal, point blank, to mark a tender davit as "non man riding" as unequivocally required by UK regs. The idiot concern told me that having paid some £5000 extra for white hydraulic hoses (to match the white davit and white tender - I seem to recal, the "tender" weighed about 3T?), such marking was absolutely out of the question.

Another posh idiot refused to wet-test a large yachts fire main..." as it might leak"! Instead, proposing that we test it with 10 bar of compressed air!!!

I was not the only chap doing this...walking off. No compliance = no certificates.

...and so the specialist (by special people, for special people, with special yachts?) "LargeYacht Unit" was created! And lo, there was an "industry"...

Point 2. I agree with above.
Yes, knocked flat, while not sailing, in the S Mediterranean, in August.
Not off Canada in the winter NA...ffs!

Imho some very seriously wrong with this monstrosity, and likely to be a combination of human and technical factors.
But what about the rest of them out there?

Long since retired, so my opinion now similarly worthless....hopefully my dit might amuse some of you 😉
 
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seeSimon said:
Yes, knocked flat, while not sailing, in the S Mediterranean, in August.
Not off Canada in the winter NA...ffs!
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The location and season are irrelevant, the weather recorded was severe and not expected. I’m sure Canada in winter have some lovely calm days, also irrelevant here.
 
seeSimon said:
.....Long since retired, so my opinion now similarly worthless....hopefully my dit might amuse some of you 😉
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Not worthless at all. It shows how even the best inspection and enforcement regimes can be "got at" by political pressure. I'm guessing the Large Yacht Unit you mention was staffed by more "flexible" individuals?
 
seeSimon said:
First point. Indulge my dit please?
I was once ...a long long time ago...a UK DTp (Dept of Transport) Engineer and Ship Surveyor...the "good old days" before yacht codes and the MCA were even a thing.
I walked off several large superyachts, then under survey as Ships under UK Merchant Shipping legislation. This was because some crews/owners /managers refused to comply as they saw themselves as "special". They refused to comply with standards set for the little people. The final straw was the refusal, point blank, to mark a tender davit as "non man riding" as unequivocally required by UK regs. The idiot concern told me that having paid some £5000 extra for white hydraulic hoses (to match the white davit and white tender - I seem to recal, the "tender" weighed about 3T?), such marking was absolutely out of the question.

Another posh idiot refused to wet-test a large yachts fire main..." as it might leak"! Instead, proposing that we test it with 10 bar of compressed air!!!

I was not the only chap doing this...walking off. No compliance = no certificates.

...and so the specialist (by special people, for special people, with special yachts?) "LargeYacht Unit" was created! And lo, there was an "industry"...

Point 2. I agree with above.
Yes, knocked flat, while not sailing, in the S Mediterranean, in August.
Not off Canada in the winter NA...ffs!

Imho some very seriously wrong with this monstrosity, and likely to be a combination of human and technical factors.
But what about the rest of them out there?

Long since retired, so my opinion now similarly worthless....hopefully my dit might amuse some of you 😉
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I think the ‘special’ yacht owners are right....imagine if, in a dire emergency, I was running to a lifeboat in the hope it was save my life...I would be stopped dead in my tracks by a sign reading ‘non man riding’....what does it mean...’women and children only’ ......time for me to follow Seastoke and transition....it’s a nonsensical wording
 
Bouba said:
I think the ‘special’ yacht owners are right....imagine if, in a dire emergency, I was running to a lifeboat in the hope it was save my life...I would be stopped dead in my tracks by a sign reading ‘non man riding’....what does it mean...’women and children only’ ......time for me to follow Seastoke and transition....it’s a nonsensical wording
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It isn't nonsensical, there are different standards for man riding equipment. If they can't be bothered with a simple sign, what else are they ignoring?
 
penberth3 said:
It isn't nonsensical, there are different standards for man riding equipment. If they can't be bothered with a simple sign, what else are they ignoring?
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I’m sorry but it is not plain English…in an emergency you need plain English….unless it’s a boat full of lawyers or government pen pushers
 
penberth3 said:
"Man-riding" is the accepted term across a whole range of industries that use cranes and other lifting equipment. I'm surprised you didn't know that :oops:.
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But these are on a passenger carrying boat.....I’m sure if the boat was hired out by some crane operators for a cruise....it will be alright
 
Yet in the commercial world, non man riding winches are allowed to be used for man riding, when surveyed by certifying authorities like ABS, DNV et cetera. The UK HSE banned man riding on non man riding winches but outside the UK it is not so prescriptive. It is rare though, most operators will fit man riding winches with the various safety features: WLL stated, 2 x sets of automatic fail safe brakes, anti rotation wire, load limited to 150kg to 300kg (depending on country rules), auto spooling, auto over spooling limit stop, auto under spooling limit stop, emergency lowering mechanisms.

On utility winches I some times see "not for man riding" but most of the time there is no sign, just the WLL stencilled on the winch
 
RunAgroundHard said:
Yet in the commercial world, non man riding winches are allowed to be used for man riding, when surveyed by certifying authorities like ABS, DNV et cetera. The UK HSE banned man riding on non man riding winches but outside the UK it is not so prescriptive.
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Brilliant !.....another layer to the confusion 🤣😂
 
penberth3 said:
You're confusing yourself, mate. English comprehension and lifting gear obviously aren't your specialised subjects.
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I built an electric winch to launch my dingy.....I still think ‘non man riding’....even written in capitals and bold....isn’t clear in anyway whatsoever
 
Bouba said:
...another layer to the confusion ..
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Which is what happened when a crew member was pulled through a 12" hole and killed becuase the winch overload mechanism was set at 10 ton on a non man riding winch. It used to be a high incident activity in the drilling industry, lifting personnel, but incidents are way, way down because of better controls designed to manage the risk of operator confusion. 150t cranes are also used for man lifting, personal transfer where the cranes are certified for lifting personnel with various processes and controls required to be in place. You can imagine what would happen to a bunch of people in a man lifting basket that catches on a structure and the crane pulls to 150t. A lot of rules are established out of blood, guts and death because owners and operators of vessels were cheapskates who only thought about profit and considered people expendable and easily replaced.
 
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