Bavaria V Jeanneau

[Monique]

My last boat was a 1997 Bav 46 Exclusive; she was solid and sailed well.. it had deep keel and tall rig.

Few things went wrong on it. Mostly the leccy trickery thingies. Would do it again if my situation warranted it. However, for a RTW (starting on 1 July) we wanted a different boat.

For what you want to do with it, the Bav will bring smiles. If you can find a deep keel version, she'll be that much better.

 

[Anwen]

I had a 2003 model Jeanneau SO32, and was very happy with it. It sailed well, and the layout below decks was excellent, with a galley that would put a bigger boat to shame. We sailed ours around Lands End on several occasions, took it to the Isles of Scilly and were never concerned about build quality, ruggedness etc. I spent quite a bit of effort upgrading the boat and fitted a gas strut kicker to make reefing easier, second coachroof winch etc. I only sold it to buy a Jeanneau 379, which we have been delighted with. The only advice I'd give with the SO32 is to stay away from the late models that had the first iteration of 'Fineteak' instead of teak faced ply used for the fit out below. Otherwise, you won't be disappointed.

 

[photodog]

I've been the happy owner of a 1999 Bavaria 31 now for a decade. We chose this over simular boats such as the so32 and benny 311 at the time due to a noticeably better interior build quality, CE cat A certification, excellent avs, Germanischer Lloyds certification, better storage... And most importantly, it was the best of the bunch to sail. All iMHO.

In the past decade we have had no serious problems of any sort. Any problems I've had have been with fitted kit...
We antifoul, service the engine, give it the occasional wash... And she's good to go.

The interior woodwork is head and shoulders above anything being put in production yachts nowadays...

We have compared her on many occasions to newer versions, and have zero incentive to change.

Saying all of that, she is a bit quirky, and I dont think I would recomend the same boat for the op.... What I would recomend otoh is a Simular vintage bavaria 34. Undoubtedly a better boat than the replacement 32.. (Which is very nice boat btw... Sails well with the deep keel, easily managed...) and superior in almost all ways to the 30.

There are plenty about.. And well worth while looking at, easily capable of extensive cruising.

 

[Tranona]

Good question, my budget allows me to get a 10 year old version of each so with the Bav it's the 30 Cruiser and the one I'm interested in is year 2006. Must admit I'm a little surprised (and pleased) by the positive Comments on the Bav

Thanks all please keep them coming.

delbuoy

You should not be surprised. The only people who bad mouth Bavarias are those that don't own them. Production of sail boats have averaged 2000 over the last 15 years or so which makes 30000 boats. Puts things in perspective and means a lot of quietly satisfied owners.

You can say much the same about Beneteau and Jeanneau owners who can be equally satisfied. The choice you make is likely to have a degree of subjectivity because they each have their strong points and a different "feel". However, on the 2 occasions I have faced this choice, there has been little about the non chosen ones that I wished I had in the Bavaria I chose.

 

[pathfinderstu]

About 3 years ago I was in the market for a boat and had narrowed it down to Bavaria, Beneteau or Jeanneau. as mentioned before am talking Med market mostly, Generally speaking Bavaria were the cheapest to buy and hardest to sell. To me I liked their interior finish best but in the end I choose a 43 Beneteau, Two of the main reasons were that it had a yanmar engine and not Volvo, also it had shaft drive and not saildrive.
I am happy with my choice. it was right for me.

 

[awol]

You should not be surprised. The only people who bad mouth Bavarias are those that don't own them.

But is the corollary true? The only people who good mouth Bavarias (or Jeanneaux or Beneteaux) are those that own them?

Post-purchase rationalization, also known as Buyer's Stockholm Syndrome, is a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. It is a special case of choice-supportive bias.

Expensive purchases often involve a lot of careful research and deliberation, and many consumers will often refuse to admit that their decision was made in poor judgment. Many purchasing decisions are made emotionally, based on factors such as brand-loyalty and advertising, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.

 

[photodog]

But is the corollary true? The only people who good mouth Bavarias (or Jeanneaux or Beneteaux) are those that own them?

No it's not. Everyone loves Bavarias secretly. It's just the people who buy MAB's riling at the injustice of it all.

It's only really amongst the english that this issue exists... I suspects its about the war. I note for instance the earlier comment about bavaria keels, which of course is a de riguer comment within the paradigm, however it's interesting to note that the only boats losing keels of late have been Bene's and Jennies.... And yet we make no comment in regard to that.

I find its surprising that folks would be be so less harsh on a french boat...

 

[Tranona]

But is the corollary true? The only people who good mouth Bavarias (or Jeanneaux or Beneteaux) are those that own them?

No. If you do your homework and buy a boat that you think will satisfy your requirements - and it does, then it is not surprising that you congratulate yourself on the good choice you made. I don't have to justify my choice to anybody, but it makes sense to share the experience with others who are faced with the same decision.

As you have no doubt seen I have just gone through the process a second time and come to the same conclusion. Would have been quite happy to have bought another brand as the two main competitors after I whittled down the short list from about 8 boats to 3 were closely comparable in function, equipment and price, but overall I chose another Bavaria for exactly the same reason as last time - overall it gave me more for my money. No doubt 15 years satisfaction with the first one was an influencing factor.

Just to reinforce the level of satisfaction most buyers have - when did you ever see a post on here (or anywhere) from an owner saying he had sold his boat because it failed to live up to expectations. Plenty of people posting about how awful other peoples' boats are or failure to understand why other people make the choices they do, usually based on personal prejudice rather than any concrete evidence.

BTW very familiar with post-purchase rationalisation from an academic perspective. Just a convenient way of trying to understand a very complex process, and the quote you give is worded to suggest that such behaviour is negative or deviant whereas it is quite normal. Much as we try to make our choices on a rational basis - using our spreadsheets to structure our decision process, assembling data on other peoples' experiences by reading reports, Which etc the reality is that decisions are made by humans and their main criteria is that they have to be happy with it. For some the happiness comes from their peers' approval, but for others it is internal satisfaction.

Just as matter of interest the Jeanneau I looked at was parked close to a CO 32 in Lymington. Looking at the two together one cannot imagine why one would choose one rather than the other!

BTW have a look at the YM videos of the Bavaria 33 and Vision 42 on You Tube. You will see that not all journos are in love with old boats, and some are capable of providing a review of boats from the perspective of potential buyers rather than pandering to the prejudice of people who have no intention of buying.

 

[awol]

Just as matter of interest the Jeanneau I looked at was parked close to a CO 32 in Lymington. Looking at the two together one cannot imagine why one would choose one rather than the other!

I am sure your imagination really could stretch that far! The discriminators would be quite clear to most, unlike those between the two marques the OP is considering.
While the lack of details on posters profile pages prevents an analysis, my impression of the advice given was that it was based mostly on a form of brand loyalty - even you quoted that as one of your purchasing factors.

 

[jordanbasset]

For me brand loyalty is where I have brought a product, found it is good, to the point that I would buy it over other brands. If I brought a product and it was not good I would feel no loyalty to it and what is more I would make it clear it was a rubbish product.
People who have owned Bavarias, Jeanneaus, or for that matter Contessa 32' s and from first hand experience find them a good product, may well have brand loyalty, but the reason for that loyalty is inevitably based on their real life experiences of it.

 

[Tranona]

I am sure your imagination really could stretch that far! The discriminators would be quite clear to most, unlike those between the two marques the OP is considering.
While the lack of details on posters profile pages prevents an analysis, my impression of the advice given was that it was based mostly on a form of brand loyalty - even you quoted that as one of your purchasing factors.

No I could not imagine why two such disparate boats could be under consideration by the same person. That was the point that I was trying to make - not that it was difficult to discriminate. I think I have already made the point earlier that there is similarity between the two boats the OP is considering because they are aimed at exactly the same market sector and that he would probably find either satisfactory for his intended purpose (which he has explained sufficiently to make such an observation).

Exactly the same dilemma I have just faced - a short list of three very similar boats, each of which would fulfill my needs at roughly the same price. You can't buy all three, so have to find a way of making your final choice - and that may not appear rational to others - and why should it? - its not their money and they don't have to live with it. Of course brand loyalty is a factor - again why should it not be. Why should you not take into account your previous satisfaction of a product from the same brand? It is one of the ways consumers seek to minimise their risk in future purchases and clearly something that successful brands emphasise and less successful brands try to build. If there were no such thing as brand loyalty, why would some people get so fiercely possessive about boats such as the one you own?

 

[awol]

People who have owned Bavarias, Jeanneaus, or for that matter Contessa 32' s and from first hand experience find them a good product, may well have brand loyalty, but the reason for that loyalty is inevitably based on their real life experiences of it.

........ or Post-purchase rationalization. Even the owners may not know which!

 

[Tranona]

........ or Post-purchase rationalization. Even the owners may not know which!

If you want to be lazy and give it pseudo credibility by using a made up hyphenated term. Why should owners care what you call it? They make their decisions based on complex human processes which simplistic labels will never capture.

What Duncan is describing is applying learning from experience and needs no further explanation.

 

[awol]

As Nigel said, you won't be disappointed by a Bavaria.

What Duncan is describing is applying learning from experience and needs no further explanation.

?????

 

[Tranona]

?????

Sorry Jordan Basset - Duncan is another of the many thousands of satisfied Bavaria owners who would make a similar observation as you have picked up.

 

[doug748]

I am sure your imagination really could stretch that far! The discriminators would be quite clear to most, unlike those between the two marques the OP is considering....
.

I think you got him bang to rights there.

More ignorance dressed in a suit of learning from that particular source.

 

[pvb]

Good question, my budget allows me to get a 10 year old version of each so with the Bav it's the 30 Cruiser and the one I'm interested in is year 2006. Must admit I'm a little surprised (and pleased) by the positive Comments on the Bav

Thanks all please keep them coming.

I don't think there's any significant fundamental difference between 10 year old Bavarias, Jeanneaus or Beneteaus. They were all production-built to good standards. So much depends on how they've been used over the 10 years, and how well they've been maintained and updated. Go for the one which best suits your needs, and look for one in the best condition. There are stacks of them on offer, so you shouldn't have difficulty finding one.

If your budget will stretch, you might also consider boats which are a bit bigger. They'll be just as easy for the two of you to handle, and will provide better comfort and space.

 

[Daydream believer]

If you want ease of sailing, headroom space & a decent sized loo why not look at the Hanse 311-315 or the larger 320
i am 6ft 6 & needed the headroom not only in the main cabin but in the loo plus berths in the 311 are all long
the self tacking jib is great & as for ease I sail mine 95% time having done 2 round UK trips etc etc
the performance is better than both the jeneau & the Bavaria
Build of the 2-4 onward is good
Inspiration marine say the 31 series sell very quickly second hand but they do get them in

 

[ashtead]

Have had a Bav 34 from new in 2001 and have been very happy with her but looking for something larger was happy to consider a jeaneau. I think the key consideration is the condition of interior and engine of any model with low hours . Sails can be replaced gradually but engine replacement might leave a large dent in budget so maybe a consideration when looking at different models . If buying a Bav look for one with a recent saildrive seal replacement and check the condition of rudder for water absorption as this is an often found condition unless the rudder has been professionally rebuilt ? Clearly design preference such as one or two cabins influence choice for some but assume both have single stern cabins. Other test would to see how each motor astern - Bavs of all sizes are great astern in marinas so maybe compare one with the jeaneau to see which is easier if manoeuvring is a concern

 

[Tranona]

If you want ease of sailing, headroom space & a decent sized loo why not look at the Hanse 311-315 or the larger 320
i am 6ft 6 & needed the headroom not only in the main cabin but in the loo plus berths in the 311 are all long
the self tacking jib is great & as for ease I sail mine 95% time having done 2 round UK trips etc etc
the performance is better than both the jeneau & the Bavaria
Build of the 2-4 onward is good
Inspiration marine say the 31 series sell very quickly second hand but they do get them in

The 320 (and its successor) is rather short of space compared with similar size Bavarias, Jeanneaus of Beneteaus of the same age and according to all reports sails in a similar way. (Look at the recent YM test and video of the 325 and compare with the similar ones for the current Bavaria and Jeanneau). OP has not highlighted "performance" as his main criteria. If he wanted that (if using your definition) his current short list might be very different.