Bavaria 40 with Volvo-Penta engine with hole smashed in the side

[awol]

Breeze is a 2011 boat so "new" is a relative term. Could be covered by Sale of Goods Act but up to OP to prove there was a fault.

If a big-end was loose I would have expected there to be that tell-tale knocking noise well remembered by those of a certain age before it made its bid for freedom.

 

[mcanderson]

I hope your insurance underwriter is being helpful. One of the reason I went with Panteanius was they covered the engine until it was 5 years old.

 

[Neil_Y]

As Awol said the UK sale of goods act can be used for any goods up to 6 years old so your well within that with a 3 year old boat. Many people don't realise it is better than a manufacturers warranty and costs nothing. It is definitely worth persuing the sale of goods route, same goes for the outboard failure at 11 Months. As long as the goods can be expected to last more than a few months then you have a case for up to 6 years in the event of failure.

 

[Tranona]

As Awol said the UK sale of goods act can be used for any goods up to 6 years old. Many people don't realise it is better than a manufacturers warranty and costs nothing. It is definitely worth persuing the sale of goods route, same goes for the outboard failure at 11 Months. As long as the goods can be expected to last more than a few months then you have a case for up to 6 years in the event of failure.

Without knowing all the details it may not be that straightforward. The boat is in Greece. It was made in Germany and presumably purchased through a dealer somewhere else. The buyer's contract is with the dealer, not Bavaria or Volvo, so legal action is not going to be straightforward and a goodwill settlement is probably the best initial approach.

To use the Sale of Goods Act (or the equivalent in the country where the boat was bought) would require him to show that the fault was there at the point of manufacture. So at the very least an "expert" opinion as to the cause of the failure would be needed. The value of the claim is within the Small Claims procedure in the UK, so if the purchase contract was in the UK it is relatively straightforward assuming he can gather evidence that supports his claim and show that he has taken all reasonable steps to resolve the problem by other means such as negotiation with supplier, use of arbitration etc.

People often make the mistake of thinking just because the law gives them rights it does not mean you can just send the bill to the manufacturer and expect a cheque in return. Almost certainly they will contest the claim so it ends up as a battle of the "experts", which is why negotiating a goodwill payment is often the best approach.

 

[pvb]

To use the Sale of Goods Act (or the equivalent in the country where the boat was bought) would require him to show that the fault was there at the point of manufacture. So at the very least an "expert" opinion as to the cause of the failure would be needed. The value of the claim is within the Small Claims procedure in the UK, so if the purchase contract was in the UK it is relatively straightforward assuming he can gather evidence that supports his claim and show that he has taken all reasonable steps to resolve the problem by other means such as negotiation with supplier, use of arbitration etc.

The OP has mentioned (here or elsewhere) Clipper as the supplier, so it would I imagine be a UK claim. I'm not sure that the eventual cost would be within the £10K limit for the Small Claims Track however. Anyway, it's up to him to sort it, his insurance may cover it.

 

[Tranona]

Might make things a bit easier, although he purchased the new engine from Darthaven, so expect there is more background to the story than what is posted here.

Unlikely insurance will cover it unless he has specific insurance against mechanical failure - that is usually excluded from typical insurance.

 

[pvb]

...although he purchased the new engine from Darthaven, so expect there is more background to the story than what is posted here.

That wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Yacht Breeze]

Thanks to everyone for the very helpful comments and advice.

Maybe I can clarify a few things. The engine was less than three years old and in my book in diesel engine life expectancy terms that’s new…not brand new, granted, but new.

It had been serviced by Volvo agents in full compliance with the company’s service schedule.

The failure was sudden and catastrophic. There was no warning; no alarms, no noises, no smells, no smoke. One minute it was working then next it was broke.

The boat was bought from Clipper Marine, the UK Bavaria agent based on the Hamble. They have been excellent and have dealt with past warranty issues promptly. It was Clipper who located the new engine for me, at Darthaven Marine, at a price local Greek Volvo dealers could not match, even taking into account the carriage costs from UK to Greece.

The engine is out of warranty – the ‘extended’ warranty last for just two years but as a number of contributors have pointed out the Sale of Goods Act does apply and that generally gives consumers more protection that warranties.

Our insurance does not cover mechanical failure, nor design faults or manufacturing faults. I understand the vast majority of yacht insurance policies also exclude these items.

The cause of the failure is almost certainly a nut working loose on a con rod. The attached photograph shows the nut and after examination experts tell me that the thread of the nut should not be visible – if it can be seen, it’s undone itself. Clearly that should not happen.

We now have a new engine installed and are now starting our holiday, albeit three weeks late. I have yet to hear from Volvo.

 

[CreakyDecks]

View attachment 43231
The cause of the failure is almost certainly a nut working loose on a con rod. The attached photograph shows the nut and after examination experts tell me that the thread of the nut should not be visible – if it can be seen, it’s undone itself. Clearly that should not happen.

You can see it has come loose because you can see a gap between the big end bearing cap and the con rod. That means that not only the crankcase will be wrecked but also the crankshaft.

 

[pvb]

The engine is out of warranty – the ‘extended’ warranty last for just two years but as a number of contributors have pointed out the Sale of Goods Act does apply and that generally gives consumers more protection that warranties.

Our insurance does not cover mechanical failure, nor design faults or manufacturing faults. I understand the vast majority of yacht insurance policies also exclude these items.

The cause of the failure is almost certainly a nut working loose on a con rod. The attached photograph shows the nut and after examination experts tell me that the thread of the nut should not be visible – if it can be seen, it’s undone itself. Clearly that should not happen.

This failure has obviously cost you a lot of money. And, as you've said, it shouldn't have happened on an engine less than 3 years old with a full service history. Just out of interest, do you plan to pursue a Sale of Goods Act claim against Clipper? You are obviously aware that you don't have a claim against Volvo Penta.

 

[TQA]

It is pretty clear that the failure stems from a " defect inherent at the time of sale ". But if the supplier just ignores you what can you do, especially as the vessel is outside the waters of the selling country.

I am trying to obtain some redress on a Tohatsu 18 hp purchased new in St Marten, initial failure reported at 11 months from St Lucia, final and catastrophic failure in Antigua, I am now in Bequia so who would I apply to and where? It is not easy being a cruiser. Tohatsu proudly advertise a 5 year warranty.

Both the manufacturer and supplier know they can just ignore a cruiser who is far away in another country and who has little option other than to fix it out of their own pocket.

 

[Yacht Breeze]

I can now give you an update.

An independent analysis of the engine by a highly qualified Chartered Engineer discovered that the cause of the catastrophic failure was a manufacturing fault. Quite simply a nut holding the big end together came undone causing the big-end bolt to bend and as a result the nut smashed through the side of the engine casing. The forensic examination of the engine also discovered that six of the other seven nuts showed signs of coming undone. If you own a Bavaria with a Volvo-Engine that must be worrying. There’s been a bit of buck-passing and being patient and reasonable has got us nowhere and so we are now suing Clipper Marine, who supplied the boat with a defective engine. I’ll let you know the outcome, in the meantime the incident has generated some media interest and so expect to read the whole sorry tale soon.

Thank you for everyone’s interest and concern.

 

[SimbaDog]

These things happen, things go wrong, it's life! This mentality of suing for everything gets on my ***s! How the **** were clipper marine supposed to know that the engine might fail at some time in the future? I'm really glad I'm not in business any more

 

[photodog]

These things happen, things go wrong, it's life! This mentality of suing for everything gets on my ***s! How the **** were clipper marine supposed to know that the engine might fail at some time in the future? I'm really glad I'm not in business any more

.... It's our laws innit?? He can't go after volvo cause they don't hold the liability... Even though they screwed up.

But remind us again of what happened when your engine fell apart shortly after delivery....???

 

[Tranona]

These things happen, things go wrong, it's life! This mentality of suing for everything gets on my ***s! How the **** were clipper marine supposed to know that the engine might fail at some time in the future? I'm really glad I'm not in business any more

It is the law which specifically holds the supplier liable for defects. They get an allowance from Bavaria to deal with warranty claims and there will be a process for Clipper to get support from Bavaria who in turn will get support from Volvo.

May not necessarily work effectively, and many manufacturers avoid this chain by dealing with such claims on a goodwill basis. Taking action against the supplier often prompts the manufacturer to deal with the problem rather than face a long court battle.

 

[SimbaDog]

.... It's our laws innit?? He can't go after volvo cause they don't hold the liability... Even though they screwed up.

But remind us again of what happened when your engine fell apart shortly after delivery....???

I paid to have it repaired myself!

 

[charles_reed]

I can now give you an update.

An independent analysis of the engine by a highly qualified Chartered Engineer discovered that the cause of the catastrophic failure was a manufacturing fault. Quite simply a nut holding the big end together came undone causing the big-end bolt to bend and as a result the nut smashed through the side of the engine casing. The forensic examination of the engine also discovered that six of the other seven nuts showed signs of coming undone. If you own a Bavaria with a Volvo-Engine that must be worrying. There’s been a bit of buck-passing and being patient and reasonable has got us nowhere and so we are now suing Clipper Marine, who supplied the boat with a defective engine. I’ll let you know the outcome, in the meantime the incident has generated some media interest and so expect to read the whole sorry tale soon.

Thank you for everyone’s interest and concern.

In my youth, I took apart and rebuilt a number of engines, Austin 7s, Riley 9s and 12/4s Alvis - all had some means of locking the big-end nuts, usually a split pin.
I find it hard to believe that Perkins have discontinued the practice.
The 4-year old Yanmar I have, certainly uses lock-tabs on the big end bearings.

 

[VicS]

In my youth, I took apart and rebuilt a number of engines, Austin 7s, Riley 9s and 12/4s Alvis - all had some means of locking the big-end nuts, usually a split pin.
I find it hard to believe that Perkins have discontinued the practice.
The 4-year old Yanmar I have, certainly uses lock-tabs on the big end bearings.

I too remember locking tab washers on big ends, but neither of my current cars have them.

No sign of them in the parts list for D2-40 . If that's a Perkins engine I guess they don't fit them now either. It's unlikely that VP would dismantle the engines and remove the locking washers.

 

[photodog]

I paid to have it repaired myself!

Sucker. you should have sued.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Locking nut with Locking tab was the normal when I started working with engine .

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