Bavaria 34, The ideal starter yacht according to YM

It probably is quite a common price bracket for a first owned yacht.
Take the profit from selling a BTL, a lot of people can find the capital.
If you are going to park in a marina, anyone who can afford the annual outlay will probably struggle less to find the purchase price.

I can't see why it should not be a great first boat, for anyone who's done the usual few bareboats and few RYA courses.
Personally, I'd struggle to find the cash and know my way around enough to do things a lot cheaper.
And it's like car mags, people read the reviews of expensive new stuff and then buy something a few years old.
Not everyone wants to work their way up through MABs, it's not for us to tell them they have to.
 
it probably means a starter boat if you want to buy from new, which many people do. Not everyone has the time, skill or patience to sort out an older boat.
There are also advantages in buying from new: all the kit is up to date, and nothing should need replacing for the next few years. That won't be true of an older boat.
 
Wight Dawn said:
What I cannot understand is why anyone wanting a "starter yacht" would buy that one when there they could save the £100k and buy a second-hand one with the rest.
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When you have bought a new boat - as I have, twice (the latest being very similar to the one that is the subject of this thread) you will understand why. And why that is preferable to spending far less on an older boat.

All about freedom of choice.

However, don't subscribe to the "starter boat" idea. Over the last year or so while in the process of buying my new boat i have met several owners, potential buyers and actual buyers. All, without exception are serial boat owners and in most cases are buying their retirement boat. The latest two are changing from a Sadler 29 and a Legend 33. Others' previous boats have included Westerly Merlin, Hanse 37, Bav 37, and 31.

The new Bav 34 is specifically aimed at the charter market where there has been a hole in the Bavaria lineup. In that sense it is a starter boat - the smallest of the range of charter boats and probably the type a novice charterer will first encounter - just like the similar size Bav 34s and Beneteaus in previous years.
 
We have met two couples in Greece, quite independently, sailing 55 ft 'starter boats'. Neither had any experience beforehand and were equally terrified of damaging their craft, consequently both were anchored outside small harbours. I have a friend who is the technical man at a marina. The jobs he is asked to do for 'starters' are the most mundane and basic that could be imagined, for example he is asked to bend sails on several times per week for owners who have no idea how to do it for themselves. Maybe these people would benefit from starting a little lower down the scale.
 
vyv_cox said:
We have met two couples in Greece, quite independently, sailing 55 ft 'starter boats'. Neither had any experience beforehand and were equally terrified of damaging their craft, consequently both were anchored outside small harbours. I have a friend who is the technical man at a marina. The jobs he is asked to do for 'starters' are the most mundane and basic that could be imagined, for example he is asked to bend sails on several times per week for owners who have no idea how to do it for themselves. Maybe these people would benefit from starting a little lower down the scale.
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That's worrying, isn't it?
 
It all depend what magazine you read, yachting monthly caters for richer people than pbo, but not rich enough for Yachting World.

PBO - Westerley Centaur
YM - bav 34
YW - Oyster, HR

I guess to some people £120,000 isn't a fortune.
 
pvb said:
That's worrying, isn't it?
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Oh I don't know if it's such a big deal. Bending a main onto a 55' boat can be a right royal PITA, especially if it's a fully battened heavy laminate job ...loads of little nuts and bolts for the cars & battens and then lots of fiddly work swinging around on mast steps beside the gooseneck. Then there's the drone from the missus about how, if this was a job in the garden, it wouldn't be done for 6 moths, etc, etc!

It's not that it's a hard job, but then at what EUR20 per hour? ...watching a couple of young lads from the comfort of the taverna with a nice cold beer in hand does have its attractions :rolleyes:
 
perhaps it all depends on just what is meant by "starter boat".
If you mean "a boat for someone with a bit of experience who now wants a boat of his own" then perhaps it's excusable (see previous posts on this and allied topics).
If you mean "a boat so that a complete novice can start sailing", then it's execrable. To start with, its just not true to say that you need a boat of your own if you are going to sail; there are other people's boats (many looking for crew), clubs which offer experience in club-owned boats, sailing courses.... and, of course, our novice has no idea at this stage of what sort of sailing he is most likely to enjoy. £100,000 on a pastime which they might not even enjoy doesn't seem like a winning idea. And the idea of a complete novice in confined waters in charge of a machine weighing several tons which he doesn't know how to control, is not one to inspire peace of mind. And no, it is not the same as driving a car ...
I am led to wonder why this misleading term is employed. Advertising pressure, maybe? well, perhaps. Sloppy journalism, without doubt.
 
Many people do have their first experience of sailing on that size of boat, either as a charter/flotilla or with a sailing school. There is nothing inherently difficult about learning to sail on such a boat or manoeuvring in confined spaces, nor is there any need to start out with a small (or old) boat.

"Starter" boat does not necessarily mean that the buyer has no experience - it may just mean the first boat they actually buy. Logically it is a correct description for cruising boats from Bavaria as it is the smallest boat in its range. As I said earlier this particular boat is not aimed at the owner market but at charter companies. The similar 33 is the private owners equivalent in the range and that is nearly £20k cheaper.

As with all made up terms and words in the English language the meaning depends largely on the context in which it is used. Does not help if people try to take it out of context.
 
Tranona said:
Many people do have their first experience of sailing on that size of boat, either as a charter/flotilla or with a sailing school. There is nothing inherently difficult about learning to sail on such a boat or manoeuvring in confined spaces, nor is there any need to start out with a small (or old) boat.
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Very true - indeed larger boats are often easier to use. Also, modern sail handling systems make everything so much easier; back in the 60s and 70s boat size was often dictated by the ability to handle the sails.
 
There is no inherent reason why someone's first foray into yachting shouldn't be on a dodgily designed 150' fully staffed superyacht!

However, I think the OP was referring to the £120,000 price tag as a bit hefty in the context of a "starter boat" and I am inclined to agree. Most of us were dosh constrained when starting out and the £120K to start playing is to be fair a bit out of touch, at least I would say it is.
 
It's not an £100,000 plus price tag. It is a used boat review

The article was about the old Bav 34 (32? I wish Bavaria would sort out their yacht names) which seems a fair suggestion for a first cruising boat, today.

The price range they have suggested is £37 to £45k
 
Tranona said:
Many people do have their first experience of sailing on that size of boat, either as a charter/flotilla or with a sailing school. There is nothing inherently difficult about learning to sail on such a boat or manoeuvring in confined spaces, nor is there any need to start out with a small (or old) boat.

"Starter" boat does not necessarily mean that the buyer has no experience - it may just mean the first boat they actually buy. Logically it is a correct description for cruising boats from Bavaria as it is the smallest boat in its range. As I said earlier this particular boat is not aimed at the owner market but at charter companies. The similar 33 is the private owners equivalent in the range and that is nearly £20k cheaper.

As with all made up terms and words in the English language the meaning depends largely on the context in which it is used. Does not help if people try to take it out of context.
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I wonder how many will be bought to be managed by flotilla companies?
 
Jcorstorphine said:
FFS a 34 foot yacht with a £120,000 price tag as a starter yacht. What have the writers in YM been smoking.
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Why start a thread fuming over an article you obviously have not read?

Even the front cover refers to "Used Bavaria 34", there is a photo too definitely a 2000 vintage Bav 34. The current Bav 33 has a slit smoked glass saloon window. Your confusion is the nautical equivalent of mistaking a Ford Escort for a Ford Fiesta.

Its a good issue, my reading tonight will be "20 miles of bliss on the Vilaine River". I have been there so just want to compare notes.
 
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A used Bav 34 is surely the kind of boat that many people will be thinking of for their first cruising yacht. Even the cost is not going to be very different from the £2400 that I paid for a new 22' Westerly Cirrus in 1971. The arguments for and against starting with a much smaller boat are complex, and my own opinions are bound to be coloured by my envy of a later generation, but I suppose we can be thankful that cost is no longer a factor keeping anyone off the water - if they are keen enough.
 
lw395 said:
I wonder how many will be bought to be managed by flotilla companies?
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That is the target market for the "new" 34 (not the older model that started this thread) - although that model was also the mainstay of the charter fleet market in its day. In fact that was my first choice when buying my boat for charter in 200 for the 2001 season, but it was so successful there were none available for 2001 so I bought the 37 instead.

The charter boat market has been a bit flat for the last few years as operators have slowed their replacement programmes so Bavaria have been concentrating on rebuilding their private owner market. The 33 which I bought is less good for chartering as it only has one aft cabin and a single wheel. The new 34 is the same hull but twin wheel and double aft cabin. No chart table and smaller loo to make space for the extra cabin.

Now I realise the original article was the one on the old 34, then the headline really is appropriate if it refers to a suitable boat for first buy of a good cruising boat. Bit like a Sadler 29 or Westerly Konsort 25 years ago! - and a Halcyon 27 or a Vega in the previous generation.
 
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