Daydream believer
Well-known member
& the whole lot sells within 2 weeks before I even get a look in
Bavaria 34 . 20 years old. Hive mind opinions sought please.
- Thread starter Povremeni pomorac
- Start date
fredrussell
Well-known member
What? How about all the boats that have been used carefully by loving owners that are only selling to move up (or down) in boat size? I’ve only sold two boats, but both were in far better condition when I sold them than they were when I purchased them. I would argue that for most people a boat is a large cash outlay and is looked after as such. This may not be the case with cheap’n’cheerful boats, but that’s not what’s being discussed here.
bitbaltic
Well-known member
Fair point. Perhaps 'Most' should have read 'Many'.
Koeketiene
Well-known member
And who do you think will sell his boat first?
Wing Mark
Well-known member
Possibly the one in the right location!
Of course, whichever one sells, that's automatically the 'right' location.
But everyone south of Brum will go to the Solent to look at boats, you can find 4 or 5 to view and make it a worthwhile day.
You have to be keen to travel from Dorset to Norfolk and you know it's going to be a big commitment to take it home.
Tranona
Well-known member
Having just travelled to deepest west Wales from Dorset to buy a boat, I agree!. Challenge is now how to get it back to Poole.
Koeketiene
Well-known member
I asked my question 'all things being equal' - just based on the asking price/condition.
Whilst I do admit that location can be a factor, it's not not necessarily the prime consideration for everyone.
I'm based in pretty much the western most tip of France. Yet, when I was looking to buy last year I looked at:
- A HR 352 in Morlaix and another one in Bordeaux
- A Nicholson 31 in Brightlingsea
- A very nice HR312 in Copenhagen (alas she sold before I managed to complete the sale of my previous boat)
- A Victoire 10.44, a Contest 35 and a Contessa 32 in Holland (that last one came close, but alas no cigar)
In the end I bought a Standfast 36 in Holland.
The 550NM singlehanded delivery cruise was the experience of a lifetime.
Upon completion, I knew she would be my forever/last boat.
Similarly, I sold my French based previous boat to a British chap who lives in Cambridge.
When you can't find what you want near you (at a price you can afford) you either start looking further afield or you change your selection criteria.
Wing Mark
Well-known member
Fair comment.
I'm looking a bit lower down the market, the cost of travel to look at boats can add up, people keep advertising nice looking boats in places like Scotland or the North East.
A weekend away looking at boats will eat a few hundred quid in costs and I value my time.
The cost of moving the boat is not small.
When you're looking at boats close to £10k, paying a little over the odds for a convenient one becomes sensible. Paying £200k for an Oyster, it would be small beer!
Bringing a boat home from Scotland would be a great way to spend a Summer month, I'm more put off by the prospect of travelling a long way to find that a boat which looks good in pictures has obvious flaws when I get there.
'all things being equal' doesn't happen.
Even the same year and model of boat, I've found some have better equipment, some have nicer interior, some have more or less gelcoat damage, some have newer engines.
Few things are perfect when they have 20 years of use or neglect behind them.
Different people will prioritise these differently.
I looked at one boat, the interior made my wife reject it almost instantly, but I guessed the first single bloke who looked at it would buy it. I was right!
wully1
Well-known member
To what end? If you can’t figure out why buying a boat that’s been thrashed for it’s working life by your typical charter crew isn’t the best idea then good luck to you.
ashtead
Well-known member
Surely a thrashed charter boat at the right price presents a real opportunity for time rich but cash poor sailors and gives them an immense enjoyment in stripping down the interior or fixing the headlining etc. In this case the engine has been replaced with the beefed up version some some might prefer that than taking a more loved version with a 19hp Volvo -it’s horses for courses and while I would not be in the market for a charter boat in Uk for some it might be a way of securing an in situ boat in Greece or wherever which you might not be so precious about .
wully1
Well-known member
The problem with that approach is you need to be both time and cash rich.. Most people underestimate just how much a thorough refit will cost in money- even if they have the time.
Mark-1
Well-known member
It might have had 20 times the abuse a non-charter boat would suffer but then it might have had 30 times the maintenance a non-charter boat would benefit from.
No drawback to looking. If it's mint, great. if it's a shed it will be a terrific lesson in the weak areas to watch for in other similar boats.
No drawback to looking. If it's mint, great. if it's a shed it will be a terrific lesson in the weak areas to watch for in other similar boats.
Tranona
Well-known member
Given that around 30% of mass produced boats start life as charter boats and happily find second and subsequent owners suggests that in reality your fears are ungrounded.
Why are you so reluctant to share the experience you claimed and instead just make sweeping statements that do not stand up to scrutiny?
Not all, or even the majority of charter boats are "thrashed" - just like not all private boats are kept in pristine condition. You assess a boat on its merits and a survey. Most charter boats (like the one I owned from new) are well maintained because if they are not you lose business. There are many different kinds of charter activities and while the Sunsail type boats in the Solent do indeed have a hard life they are simply not typical of the charter business in general. The boat that started this thread looks like it has been lightly used and has a lot of new gear from a refit after it was retired from charter and may well be in better condition than a private boat of the same age.
Wing Mark
Well-known member
But don't most AWBs have fairly short careers in charter service, then get sold on to private owners around 5 or 6 years old? Or has that changed?
Many yachts used to be privately 'owned' but managed by the charter firms. Is that still so?
It's not about fears being grounded, it's how often the boat's been grounded. Back in the day a lot of private racing boat owners seemed to touch the bottom pretty often.
20 years is a long time. Many things could have happened to any boat in that time.
dom
Well-known member
Wow, this thread is still going!!
So, we've got a new engine worth about £8k, plus about £5k installation, plus a good few other goodies including new sails, plotters, batteries, etc.
And the vessel is up for £39k in today's market for what looks a lovely little boat.....
What was that idiom again, "The early bird catches the worm".
Hold on, hold on: you never know what soil that worm has burrowed through
So, we've got a new engine worth about £8k, plus about £5k installation, plus a good few other goodies including new sails, plotters, batteries, etc.
And the vessel is up for £39k in today's market for what looks a lovely little boat.....
What was that idiom again, "The early bird catches the worm".
Hold on, hold on: you never know what soil that worm has burrowed through
Koeketiene
Well-known member
Tranona
Well-known member
There are so many different types of "charter" boats as I was trying to point out. At one end of the scale there are privately owned boats that are chartered a few weeks a year - common in UK because of the short season and at the other end intensively used boats like the Sunsail fleet. In between are boats owned solely for bare boat charter, boats under charter management schemes, sailing school boats, skippered charter boats and so on. This reflects the diversity of the market and the different motivations of owners and operators.
Clearly some people here don't understand this variety, hence the sweeping statements that one should not buy a charter boat because "everyone knows" they are all knackered and not worth buying. While some may have some experience either of looking to buy a boat or of having been on a charter, most of this type of comment is born of ignorance or prejudice - or both. Yes, some boats are privately owned and managed, particularly in the holiday markets such as the Med and Caribbean - that is how I bought my boat. Yes, they used to be changed after 6 years because that was the time it took for the operator to get a decent return and the owner to get full use of (or sell) his boat. Bonus was fleets got a good turnover of new boats and were able to expand their fleets to meet rising demand. That has changed in the last few years because the market has stopped expanding and now shrunk so boats are being kept longer. 6 year management deals are no longer so attractive as boats get bigger and more expensive, so more boats are operator owned.
The main point for buyers is that they need to be clear why they are buying the boat and what is important to them and for some an ex charter boat, perhaps because of its type, location or tax status can be a viable alternative. This Bav 34 does not have anything really going for it against a private boat so should be approached purely from the point of view of what it offers. These boats are very robust and structurally should not have any issues. The things that wear because of high usage are obvious, which is perhaps why sails and engine have been replaced. The other things that suffer are electrics and plumbing which again are obvious and easily fixed, plus interior particularly if the boat is used all year round for tuition or lads weekend out type charters. Again from the photos this boat's interior, upholstery and woodwork looks original and in good condition, suggesting it has been used for holiday bareboating, particularly as the boat and layout is not suitable for the more destructive kinds of charters.
As to grounding, this mainly applies to intensively used training, racing, lads weekend boats. There is no reason why for typical bareboat chartering that grounding should be any more of an issue than privately owned cruising boats used in the same locations
V1701
Well-known member
If the new engine and sails were done in 2019 it's reasonable I think to assume that all was well until then. With lockdowns, etc. she'll have seen little action since then & I know they always look better in the photos but there's no hint whatsoever of anything amiss - in fact she looks very well kept. Even the teak & holly floor at the bottom of the companion way steps doesn't look to have any wear. If I was in the market for this sort of boat I'd be there like a shot...
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Skylark
Well-known member
Does it not float / sail ? ??
Tranona
Well-known member
Yes. The preferred option is to sail her back next spring. However boring things like insurance get in the way. I am going up next week for the insurance survey and hope that I can get insurance without replacing the rigging. It would be a good way of getting to know the boat before I start making changes. However trucking has advantages and is not necessarily more expensive. Decisions, decisions, but just take it a step at a time.
As others have noted on this thread buying a boat out of your local area just adds to the complications.