Battery charging (again!) - alternator regulators and their friends

[sailinglegend420]

So the Sterling regulator is connected in parallel with the alternator's standard regulator. Because of this, the Sterling can only increase the alternator's output voltage, it can't decrease it.

So it's just YOUR interpretation that they are running in parallel and therefore can't achieve a lower float voltage. He doesn't say that! His external regulator is controlling the field circuit so HIS regulator has the control at all times, the internal is doing nothing. His fail safe mode is interesting because when the external Sterling regulator fails it FULL FIELDS the field windings so the internal regulator will charge again - but maybe at too high a voltage!

I notice from searching the net you have been banging on about this since about 2010. Please can you provide proof that a Sterling AR cannot and will not go down to 13.5 v or less when fitted to an internal regulator that maybe at 14.6v.. Reducing voltage is easy!

 

[pvb]

So it's just YOUR interpretation that they are running in parallel and therefore can't achieve a lower float voltage. He doesn't say that! His external regulator is controlling the field circuit so HIS regulator has the control at all times, the internal is doing nothing. His fail safe mode is interesting because when the external Sterling regulator fails it FULL FIELDS the field windings so the internal regulator will charge again - but maybe at too high a voltage!

I notice from searching the net you have been banging on about this since about 2010. Please can you provide proof that a Sterling AR cannot and will not go down to 13.5 v or less when fitted to an internal regulator that maybe at 14.6v.. Reducing voltage is easy!

He wouldn't say it as such, would he? Sterling literature is long on words and short on facts. And I haven't "been banging on about this since about 2010" - I've merely been correcting people's misconceptions about what the Sterling regulator will achieve in ordinary DIY installations.

Sterling catalogues in previous years had a graph showing the charge voltages for their multi-step battery chargers and alternator regulators. This clearly showed that the float voltage would be the alternator's standard 14.0v - see below

When fitted as Sterling recommend, in parallel with the alternator's standard regulator, the Sterling regulator will increase charge voltage, but never decrease it below the setting of the standard regulator. It's possible to use the Sterling regulator as a stand-alone regulator, but that's not recommended by Sterling as it removes the failsafe position of the alternator still charging if the Sterling regulator develops a fault.

 

[sailinglegend420]

Sterling catalogues in previous years had a graph showing the charge voltages for their multi-step battery chargers and alternator regulators. This clearly showed that the float voltage would be the alternator's standard 14.0v - see below...

Thanks for that graph, but it clearly says alternator booster on the graph at 14v not alternator regulator. We are talking about different things here. As you say this is from an old catalogue, He doesn't make these any more because modern alternators can output 14.6 volts. So if the alternator is at 14.6 volts he can't be selling a multi-stage alternator regulator that has settings for Gel at 14.1v or AGM at 14.4v., without telling people in the literature that it might not work.

i hope we have now cleared this up!

 

[GHA]

. Please can you provide proof that a Sterling AR cannot and will not go down to 13.5 v or less when fitted to an internal regulator that maybe at 14.6v.. Reducing voltage is easy!

Can anyone explain how this works or if it is even possible, to pull down the voltage of an internal regulator with an external regulator connected in parallel?
In parallel is how sterling recommend.

Up is easy, but can you pull it below where it wants to be?

 

[pvb]

Thanks for that graph, but it clearly says alternator booster on the graph at 14v not alternator regulator. We are talking about different things here. As you say this is from an old catalogue, He doesn't make these any more because modern alternators can output 14.6 volts. So if the alternator is at 14.6 volts he can't be selling a multi-stage alternator regulator that has settings for Gel at 14.1v or AGM at 14.4v., without telling people in the literature that it might not work.

i hope we have now cleared this up!

We're not talking about different things at all. The fact that Mr Sterling uses the word "booster" in some places and "regulator" in other places is immaterial. The graph was in the 2008 catalogue, which didn't contain any products called "boosters" but did contain the "Universal Advanced Digital Alternator Regulator". It was an earlier version of the one sold today.

People whose alternators produce 14.6v most probably don't need an add-on Sterling regulator. That's one of the reasons why the current advice on forums to people who enquire about add-on regulators (Sterling, Adverc, Driftgate, etc) is to first check what voltage their alternator is actually producing.

As to the accuracy of Mr Sterling's claims, that's something you should query with him.

 

[MikeBz]

So....

1. Could the alternators regulator output be reduced to 13.x volts by putting a diode in series with it, then rely on the AR to boost the voltage up for bulk/absorption stages?

2. Presumably the best way to determine the alternator reg's output voltage is to measure it when the batteries are well charged. Currently I see 13.8-13.9V, so it could be putting out 14.5-14.6 and losing 0.7 through the splitter (which I haven't found yet...).

3. Even if the alternator reg can be made to get > 14V to the batteries the a smart regulator is a good idea if it can drop to a sensible float voltage?

 

[GHA]

What are the manufacturers specs for float voltage? (and temperature?)

 

[MikeBz]

I'm trying to find out.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Not so, Sterling units piggy back.

As do Advercs. Whose makers, by the way, I have found to be extremely friendly and helpful.

 

[rosssavage]

Er, you can have any voltage you like, regardless of alternator internal regulator voltage. The regulator could drop the voltage to anything mr sterling or adverc et al like...

 

[pvb]

Er, you can have any voltage you like, regardless of alternator internal regulator voltage. The regulator could drop the voltage to anything mr sterling or adverc et al like...

Interesting. So why don't their add-on regulators achieve this?

 

[rosssavage]

No idea. Just struggling to come to terms with this argument about minimum voltage that seems to be raging.

Simple voltage divider network within the box of tricks can give you anything lower than the input voltage you desire.

The alternator regulator (original or sterling) can go as high as it likes, you can always lower voltage downstream. The whole point of the Sterling regulator is to up the voltage above the standard regulator. You can then drop the artificially raised voltage further on.

 

[rosssavage]

Ok, my posts are not clear here....

The output from the alternator can't be lowered beyond internal / sterling regulator voltage, but the big box it's all wired into can (or at least could, if sterling so built it)

Sorry, writing this during my MIL's birthday celebrations... Tricky!

 

[pvb]

Ok, my posts are not clear here....

The output from the alternator can't be lowered beyond internal / sterling regulator voltage, but the big box it's all wired into can (or at least could, if sterling so built it)

Sorry, writing this during my MIL's birthday celebrations... Tricky!

No, not clear at all. What's this "big box it's all wired into"?

 

[GHA]

I'm trying to find out.

Presumably you've been running the alternator so far without killing them.............

 

[MikeBz]

Presumably you've been running the alternator so far without killing them.............

They have only been installed a few weeks, with 1 weekend spent on board so early days.

 

[rosssavage]

Sorry pvb.... Really not giving this my full attention. I thought we were still talking A2B, I now realise the thread has moved onto AR's exclusively.

Please ignore all of my posts on this thread.

Bowing out gracefully, with my coat.....

 

[GHA]

They have only been installed a few weeks, with 1 weekend spent on board so early days.

Ah. No wonder you're being a bit cautious then

PS. have you seen this site? Most of the juicy bits you need to pay a little to get at but worth it imho


http://www.morganscloud.com/series/tips-for-agm-battery-installation-maintenance/

 

[pvb]

Sorry pvb.... Really not giving this my full attention. I thought we were still talking A2B, I now realise the thread has moved onto AR's exclusively.

Please ignore all of my posts on this thread.

Bowing out gracefully, with my coat.....

Enjoy the party!

 

[charles_reed]

We're not talking about different things at all. The fact that Mr Sterling uses the word "booster" in some places and "regulator" in other places is immaterial. The graph was in the 2008 catalogue, which didn't contain any products called "boosters" but did contain the "Universal Advanced Digital Alternator Regulator". It was an earlier version of the one sold today.

People whose alternators produce 14.6v most probably don't need an add-on Sterling regulator. That's one of the reasons why the current advice on forums to people who enquire about add-on regulators (Sterling, Adverc, Driftgate, etc) is to first check what voltage their alternator is actually producing.

As to the accuracy of Mr Sterling's claims, that's something you should query with him.

I'd vouch for the fact that modern alternator regulators put out far more than older ones - I've taken my Adverc out of the system as the voltage @ the diode input is exactly the same with and without.
I do, however, admire the imaginative hyperbole that goes into nearly all Mr Sterling's literature - with careful extrapolation you can, however, actually derive some facts.