Bargin Sealine ?
- Thread starter oldgit
- Start date
enterprise
Well-Known Member
Survey fault, stress cracking on hull!
In my own experience sealine boats do seem to have this common fault, we bought one and had it repaired but not in the way described in the advert.
The areas of crazing need to be ground out and dried before fairing, applying the epoxy barrier coat and antifoul once this has been done, not the less expensive alternative which has been sudgested, just paint over them with epoxy!
Could be quite a job depending on how many areas of crazing there are, removal of all antifouling would be the first job, and would a purchaser pay for this?
Why wouldnt the vendor have the work done and retain the original asking price?, im sure they know slightly more than the ad implies
In my own experience sealine boats do seem to have this common fault, we bought one and had it repaired but not in the way described in the advert.
The areas of crazing need to be ground out and dried before fairing, applying the epoxy barrier coat and antifoul once this has been done, not the less expensive alternative which has been sudgested, just paint over them with epoxy!
Could be quite a job depending on how many areas of crazing there are, removal of all antifouling would be the first job, and would a purchaser pay for this?
Why wouldnt the vendor have the work done and retain the original asking price?, im sure they know slightly more than the ad implies
Granthsmith
Active Member
Unfortunately that's my survey they are referring to there 
. She's a lovely boat inside but had a number of stress cracks in the hull, some a considerable length and also more stress cracks on the spray bars. My surveyor indicated the last one of these he heard about that needed repairing cost around £15k so I think the vendor here is a little optimistic at the repair costs.
. She's a lovely boat inside but had a number of stress cracks in the hull, some a considerable length and also more stress cracks on the spray bars. My surveyor indicated the last one of these he heard about that needed repairing cost around £15k so I think the vendor here is a little optimistic at the repair costs.
enterprise
Well-Known Member
To be fair we only needed to spend £2.5k to get our s240 done but then there were only 10 palm sized areas to do, but it was a big unknown, as a buyer we bought the boat with 30-40 areas of scraped antifoul but we needed a full removal to see the extent of the damage, thankfully only 2 more discovered.
The vendor on the other hand had to lower the price of the boat considerably for us not to walk away, I would say we probably broke even in the end, when we sold the epoxy coating was a dead givaway to the purchasers surveyor who advised his clients that to remove it would constitute damage but by not removing it he would not be able to comment on the integrity of the hull.
Once all the reciepts were inspected (guarantees etc from the repair yard) the purchaser lowered their offer anyway even though no defects were noted in the survey, just the stigma placed upon the vessel from having to have had the work done,I think unless done properly the stress crazing will eventually create hairline cracks in the epoxy coating, therefore starting the whole nightmare process of repair again.
I think as a new owner you did well to tear yourself away from this, I have walked away a couple of times in the past and when looking for a new boat £1k in lost funds to surveys is the last thing you need.
The vendor on the other hand had to lower the price of the boat considerably for us not to walk away, I would say we probably broke even in the end, when we sold the epoxy coating was a dead givaway to the purchasers surveyor who advised his clients that to remove it would constitute damage but by not removing it he would not be able to comment on the integrity of the hull.
Once all the reciepts were inspected (guarantees etc from the repair yard) the purchaser lowered their offer anyway even though no defects were noted in the survey, just the stigma placed upon the vessel from having to have had the work done,I think unless done properly the stress crazing will eventually create hairline cracks in the epoxy coating, therefore starting the whole nightmare process of repair again.
I think as a new owner you did well to tear yourself away from this, I have walked away a couple of times in the past and when looking for a new boat £1k in lost funds to surveys is the last thing you need.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Why ?
Can only presume that the boat has been driven too hard in lumpy conditions,yes we all know that it should not happen,but there are tales of other boats from different builders which have suffered a very similar problem.
The problem would be that any builder which had the guts to placard the the helm thus.....
"Oi Moron if you go too fast in bad conditions with this boat you will eventually break it "
Would not sell many boats ?
Can only presume that the boat has been driven too hard in lumpy conditions,yes we all know that it should not happen,but there are tales of other boats from different builders which have suffered a very similar problem.
The problem would be that any builder which had the guts to placard the the helm thus.....
"Oi Moron if you go too fast in bad conditions with this boat you will eventually break it "
Would not sell many boats ?
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ian38_39
Well-Known Member
I don't think Sealines are any worse than other makes for this other than it is more commonly found on them.
The reason may lye with what a number of brokers have said to me.
"there are lots of boats around that are bought and then not used and left to stand, people get an inheritance, like the idea of a boat, buy one then find it is not for them. An awful lot of these tend to be the Americans or Sealine, due to the attraction of a cheap price or extra accommodation"
If more first timers buy Sealines than the other big 3 than it stands to reason they will have less experience and less understanding of the damage they are causing, give them a Princess, Fairline or Sunseeker and the result would probably be the same.
That said I wouldn't like to pay more than £40k for this one. £15k work, £10k Devaluation and £5K aggravation, against the realistic cost of a 330 at £70K
The reason may lye with what a number of brokers have said to me.
"there are lots of boats around that are bought and then not used and left to stand, people get an inheritance, like the idea of a boat, buy one then find it is not for them. An awful lot of these tend to be the Americans or Sealine, due to the attraction of a cheap price or extra accommodation"
If more first timers buy Sealines than the other big 3 than it stands to reason they will have less experience and less understanding of the damage they are causing, give them a Princess, Fairline or Sunseeker and the result would probably be the same.
That said I wouldn't like to pay more than £40k for this one. £15k work, £10k Devaluation and £5K aggravation, against the realistic cost of a 330 at £70K
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Sealines tend to suffer from stress cracking more to others. But in my experience most boats over 5 years old will have a stress crack here or there. In most cases I always found a couple in the bow area.
15k is a lot of money to repair stress cracks in the bottom unless they are not very deep and have fractured the glass. If you do a full osmosis/gelshield protection you still have to grind all the gel in the bottom. Does it cost 15k to do this on a 10 metre boat in the UK.....
That quote is a lot of money
15k is a lot of money to repair stress cracks in the bottom unless they are not very deep and have fractured the glass. If you do a full osmosis/gelshield protection you still have to grind all the gel in the bottom. Does it cost 15k to do this on a 10 metre boat in the UK.....
That quote is a lot of money
enterprise
Well-Known Member
Having had three sealines surveyed (walked away from 2) we did find the one we eventually purchased, but it was cheap/good value and the repairs were 2.5K which we doubled and deducted from our first offer, it was accepted and we had the work done.
However a 260 we had surveyed had major structural damage which (surveyors explanation) was caused by hull flexing and detatchment of the tabbing and of course resulted in external stress crazing.
With sealine's construction techniques (& many other builders) it is hard for the surveyor to get to look at the majority of the inside of the hull so any stress crazing found could be attributed to something other than novice driving, you take a chance its only cosmetic if the surveyor cannot see the other side.
I do see the argument for novice driving a lightly built boat or taking on sea conditions for which it wasn't designed but you would think for every bad one there would be hundreds of decent offerings, dont get me wrong we loved every minute of ownership, its just something to be mindfull of.
We now have a baby fairline targa 28, with (big for her size) Kad32's, now I would consider this to be a starter boat but from fairline, she was surveyed 2 years ago and is now 16 years old, and guess what no stress crazing at all, this being the oldest boat we have ever owned just so happens to be the best one we have ever had surveyed, shes had 6 previous owners (many new to the sport) so you would think if its a new owner thing then this too would have had it's fair share of hull defects, but none found, and yes we have used the same surveyor for our last 5 boats so it's not just a less observant surveyor.
I will however refrain from what he said regarding sealine hulls when we purchased the fairline.
I will however admit one thing, all the sealine boats we had surveyed were aged between 1994 and 1997, before these dates Ive heard no problems, and none from later so it could have been a period of transition for sealine where lightening up on build hasnt done them any favours with the first batch of new designs from that period.
I might have been unlucky with our choices but I will leave it up to you to decide.
However a 260 we had surveyed had major structural damage which (surveyors explanation) was caused by hull flexing and detatchment of the tabbing and of course resulted in external stress crazing.
With sealine's construction techniques (& many other builders) it is hard for the surveyor to get to look at the majority of the inside of the hull so any stress crazing found could be attributed to something other than novice driving, you take a chance its only cosmetic if the surveyor cannot see the other side.
I do see the argument for novice driving a lightly built boat or taking on sea conditions for which it wasn't designed but you would think for every bad one there would be hundreds of decent offerings, dont get me wrong we loved every minute of ownership, its just something to be mindfull of.
We now have a baby fairline targa 28, with (big for her size) Kad32's, now I would consider this to be a starter boat but from fairline, she was surveyed 2 years ago and is now 16 years old, and guess what no stress crazing at all, this being the oldest boat we have ever owned just so happens to be the best one we have ever had surveyed, shes had 6 previous owners (many new to the sport) so you would think if its a new owner thing then this too would have had it's fair share of hull defects, but none found, and yes we have used the same surveyor for our last 5 boats so it's not just a less observant surveyor.
I will however refrain from what he said regarding sealine hulls when we purchased the fairline.
I will however admit one thing, all the sealine boats we had surveyed were aged between 1994 and 1997, before these dates Ive heard no problems, and none from later so it could have been a period of transition for sealine where lightening up on build hasnt done them any favours with the first batch of new designs from that period.
I might have been unlucky with our choices but I will leave it up to you to decide.
[2068]
...
Some specific models from Sealine do seem to suffer more than their fair share of problems.
We are very pleased so far with the S28, but an earlier S240 we owned had issues. Early S34's seem to have had some problems, but later ones were better. S37's / F37's are built like a tank ... which makes it very difficult to generalise.
We are very pleased so far with the S28, but an earlier S240 we owned had issues. Early S34's seem to have had some problems, but later ones were better. S37's / F37's are built like a tank ... which makes it very difficult to generalise.
enterprise
Well-Known Member
Agreed s28's have been well respected and I have never heard of problems with them, we looked for one for a while, couldn't find one for the right money however.
So in general it would seem there is good and not so good even within the same production years, but can I still assume as with our T28 they would have been bought as a family boat by a novice owner, or by people like us trading up slowly untill we can comfortable jump to the next size.
Could the problem be hull design and not the layup technique?
I personally spoke with a few owners of s260's & s270's, the model was not in production for long but you could still pick one up at resonable cost compared with an s240, unfortunatley when talking about crazing the conversation would quickly dry up, on more than one occasion we would be called back with a lower asking price, even though we had not made any attempt to view or even commit to surveys.
The 260 we had surveyed, I should have seen the light long before we commited to a survey was halved in value by the vendor if we bought it without survey, once we walked they left it a week and offered it to us for speedboat money!, I was tempted but then reallity kicked in ( my OH)
So sealine for me was a good and not so good experience, I had a Bayliner before it which we really thought the world of, just like our sealine but I know now what is meant by quality over quantity, sure there are parts on our fairline which could be better, but not many.
So in general it would seem there is good and not so good even within the same production years, but can I still assume as with our T28 they would have been bought as a family boat by a novice owner, or by people like us trading up slowly untill we can comfortable jump to the next size.
Could the problem be hull design and not the layup technique?
I personally spoke with a few owners of s260's & s270's, the model was not in production for long but you could still pick one up at resonable cost compared with an s240, unfortunatley when talking about crazing the conversation would quickly dry up, on more than one occasion we would be called back with a lower asking price, even though we had not made any attempt to view or even commit to surveys.
The 260 we had surveyed, I should have seen the light long before we commited to a survey was halved in value by the vendor if we bought it without survey, once we walked they left it a week and offered it to us for speedboat money!, I was tempted but then reallity kicked in ( my OH)
So sealine for me was a good and not so good experience, I had a Bayliner before it which we really thought the world of, just like our sealine but I know now what is meant by quality over quantity, sure there are parts on our fairline which could be better, but not many.
AdeOlly
Well-Known Member
Both our Sealines had problems with stress cracks. The first was a 1987 boat and was ever so lightly laid up. So much so you could easily flex the hull with your fingers between the stringers 
Not surprisingly, at any point where there'd been an impact there was a star shaped stress crack. I had most of them fixed for not much money. The second was an S24, which was free from stress cracks when we bought her but had one crack about 6' long along on each chine when surveyed when we sold a little over a year later. We did have a few hard landings in the boat, nothing I thought was that extreme, but it must have been enough... That cost just £250 to have out right and the sale proceeded with no adjustment to price.
We now have a 13 year old Hardy Seawings, and guess what, not a single stress crack anywhere on the hull after whatever the previous owners did with her plus we've done nearly 2000nm in three seasons. The boat doesn't have a hull liner so much of the inside of the hull can be seen. Aside from the hull being half an inch thick, there is a massive reinforcing grid bonded to the inside of the hull. Result = no flex and no stress cracking. simples.
I like Sealines, and I'd have an SC35 or SC38 tomorrow if SWMBO would let me, but there does seem to be more stories of stress cracking on them than on others, and some models seem to repeatedly come up, though not the aforementioned.
Not surprisingly, at any point where there'd been an impact there was a star shaped stress crack. I had most of them fixed for not much money. The second was an S24, which was free from stress cracks when we bought her but had one crack about 6' long along on each chine when surveyed when we sold a little over a year later. We did have a few hard landings in the boat, nothing I thought was that extreme, but it must have been enough... That cost just £250 to have out right and the sale proceeded with no adjustment to price. We now have a 13 year old Hardy Seawings, and guess what, not a single stress crack anywhere on the hull after whatever the previous owners did with her plus we've done nearly 2000nm in three seasons. The boat doesn't have a hull liner so much of the inside of the hull can be seen. Aside from the hull being half an inch thick, there is a massive reinforcing grid bonded to the inside of the hull. Result = no flex and no stress cracking. simples.
I like Sealines, and I'd have an SC35 or SC38 tomorrow if SWMBO would let me, but there does seem to be more stories of stress cracking on them than on others, and some models seem to repeatedly come up, though not the aforementioned.
bammylovechops
Well-Known Member
Good to read that the S28 is a great boat, we recently bought an S28 boat which is the third from last of the S28 ever made, it is a year 2005.
Bought from Coastal Rides at Dover, found Paul to be a top man.
Then tracked the previous owner who is a member on this site.
Jerry also a top man who explained everything we needed to know about our "new baby".
Looking forward to clocking up some hours around Conwy/North Wales this year.
Bought from Coastal Rides at Dover, found Paul to be a top man.
Then tracked the previous owner who is a member on this site.
Jerry also a top man who explained everything we needed to know about our "new baby".
Looking forward to clocking up some hours around Conwy/North Wales this year.
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poltergeist
Well-Known Member
She is probably one of the most kitted out, sorted S28's out there.
Pictures of her in action, in my profile gallery for all those S28 worshippers who may be interested!
They really are great boats!
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
Anyone heard any reports on how the Sealines S23/S25's fair up?
We had ours surveyed before we bought her but she has had a pampered life on the rivers with only one venture out onto the lumpy stuff with her previous owner,so it was no great suprise when the surveyor noted no stress cracking.
She is coming out of the water next week so we shall have a good look around the hull, but dont expect to find much as we have only had her flat out a handful of times on fairly calm water on the Trent/Ouse and Humber.
We had ours surveyed before we bought her but she has had a pampered life on the rivers with only one venture out onto the lumpy stuff with her previous owner,so it was no great suprise when the surveyor noted no stress cracking.
She is coming out of the water next week so we shall have a good look around the hull, but dont expect to find much as we have only had her flat out a handful of times on fairly calm water on the Trent/Ouse and Humber.
ian38_39
Well-Known Member
Maybe Sealines are worse than others, we have had two a 1991 255 and a 1993 310, the first thing we did to them both was completely strip the antifoul and neither of them had any stress cracking.
That said the 255 was bought in Poole where we put it on a lorry and shifted it to the Midlands so it was close to home while we did some work before sending her on to the Broads,
Part of the work was a full strip back to gel, epoxy prime and antifoul plus a compound and full polish, there was not 1mm of the hull we didn't know.
When she was lifted by crane for loading a band of stress cracks about 150mm wide and 1800mm long appeared on the front port quarter just above the waterline. it cost us £1200 to have them ground out, refilled and gelled.
We put it down to the lift but neither the crane company or the insurance wanted to know.
That said the 255 was bought in Poole where we put it on a lorry and shifted it to the Midlands so it was close to home while we did some work before sending her on to the Broads,
Part of the work was a full strip back to gel, epoxy prime and antifoul plus a compound and full polish, there was not 1mm of the hull we didn't know.
When she was lifted by crane for loading a band of stress cracks about 150mm wide and 1800mm long appeared on the front port quarter just above the waterline. it cost us £1200 to have them ground out, refilled and gelled.
We put it down to the lift but neither the crane company or the insurance wanted to know.
enterprise
Well-Known Member
Only really heard of faults on some models from the early 90's, so newer than that (and older)appear to be ok.
With any purchase it is always best to have a survey and assuming there is no stress crazing problems at survey then the boat is as good as any other Imo.
Perhaps ian38_39 has the answer, a problem lift could cause the stress crazing, on the 260 our surveyor said the stress crazing and tab detatchment were as if the hull had been squeezed?, perhaps the hull reinforcement at the time had no in built strength for lifting in slings.
With any purchase it is always best to have a survey and assuming there is no stress crazing problems at survey then the boat is as good as any other Imo.
Perhaps ian38_39 has the answer, a problem lift could cause the stress crazing, on the 260 our surveyor said the stress crazing and tab detatchment were as if the hull had been squeezed?, perhaps the hull reinforcement at the time had no in built strength for lifting in slings.
ian38_39
Well-Known Member
Thinking back, my 255 had tabs to mark where the slings should have been but these are hard to get slings to if the boat is being lifted by crane rather than boat lift and when my 310 was lifted in the first time it was by crane, the crane had a spreader cradle but again the straps were not positioned over the sling tabs, the yard told me that if they lifted at the marked points the boat would slip in its slings.
The same problem does not exist if a boat lift is used as both slings are adjusted individually and can be positioned so that they are lifting vertically.
Nowadays I only allow my boat to be lifted in a proper boat lift so maybe a word of warning for Sealine owners.
The same problem does not exist if a boat lift is used as both slings are adjusted individually and can be positioned so that they are lifting vertically.
Nowadays I only allow my boat to be lifted in a proper boat lift so maybe a word of warning for Sealine owners.
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Elza_Skip
Well-Known Member
Our S23 has also had issues with stress cracking. There was a patch that needed fixing when we bought here at 2 years old and as we look to sell her 4 years later it's back again. We avoid slamming (SWMBO does not like it!) but it seems an occupational hazard of small Sealines
petem
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but that's a complete load of old codswhollop! Anyone who believes that Fairline and Princess boats suffer from the same level of hull cracking is deluded. If you don't believe me then try searching for problem Fairlines and Princesses on here and you'll find virtually none (regardless of age).
Pete
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PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Pete saying none is a bit over rated. Have seen stress problems on the other builders.
The difference might be that the builders you mention have a single case out of hundred builds, and Sealine might have a little bit more to that.
The difference might be that the builders you mention have a single case out of hundred builds, and Sealine might have a little bit more to that.
