Bardsey Sound yesterday

[Heckler]

Just spent a week in Ireland and finally had to come back home. Of course those who know the area know the fearsome reputation of Bardsey Sound and sods law made sure that we would hit it at the wrong time after a long journey. The tide was at full flow going North when we arrived but it looked pretty flat and not much wind. There was a big thunder head to the south west, but the radar showed it fairly static, so onward and upward as they say. I had put a waymark on the other side and we "go to" ed to it on the binnacle radar, so I was able to watch both sides of the channel to make sure the boat didnt ferry glide either way.
The sails were pulling well and the donk was at 2000 revs (MD22 50HP) 8knts through the water BUT between 2 and 3 over the ground. We plodded on for what seemed ages, a rough wave now and again but it seemed OK. My trepidations were starting to disappear as we exited the channel BUT then it started, rogue waves from the south west, serious ones, big enough to make us lose sight of land as we dropped in the troughs. It werent very nice, rounding up, going on to her beam ends, not knockdowns but getting there. It continued across Hells Mouth to Cilen Head. What was strange was that there was only about 10 - 12 knots of wind.
Question, has Cardigan Bay had a pile of big weather while we have been away or was it really the big bad Bardsey trying to bite us?
Stu

 

[markdj]

I don't have local knowledge about the sound but the Irish Sea was near gales yesterday AFAIK.

 

[mortehoe]

Neither

What you really need to look at is the underwater profile of the sound taken SE to NW ... and it's mini-seamounts*. I don't know whether you have it but you should have, and/or or/and read and read again "Cruising Angelsey & Adjoining Waters" Ralph Morris (any edition from 3rd to the current 7th one)

Bardsey Sound is there to bite you ... It's a classic tidal gate ... just like North Stack or Carmel Head or the standing wave off Lynas ... or ....


*Not quite in the same league as Corrievreckan but almost as bad at odd states of the tide !!!

 

[murraynorth]

Bardsey Sound Yesterday

It was big bad Bardsey, I came through Bardsey on Saturday 18 July when there was a Force 8 in Caernarfon Bay but sea state not too bad as we were downwind with a NNW wind - but the northern entrance to Bardsey saw some huge waves from the North West; once through it though the sea state changed to moderate despite 25-30 knots true wind and that continued right through to Pwllheli - great broad reach sailing with 8 knots boat speed. Although I was in Scotland the week before, I don't think Cardigan Bay had particularly stormy weather, just wet & windy.

 

[Skylark]

Hi Stu, evidently it serves you right for getting the tides wrong. As another post has judged, just one of the many mean and potentially very angry gates around our otherwise beautiful cruising ground. Bardsey is often made worse by the katabatic winds rolling down from the hills. BTW, we're off to Ireland in a couple of weeks time, too. Regards

David

 

[Heckler]

Hi Stu, evidently it serves you right for getting the tides wrong. As another post has judged, just one of the many mean and potentially very angry gates around our otherwise beautiful cruising ground. Bardsey is often made worse by the katabatic winds rolling down from the hills. BTW, we're off to Ireland in a couple of weeks time, too. Regards

David

Oh it served me right ok. I had worked out that slack hi was at 21.30ish, so it was either a v early start or a late get in to Pwllheli and the prob of tide up chuff getting on to to my pile mooring. Plus my mate has a big 46footer which is less susceptible to tidal gates (not! as it happened this time!) In my mind was the early stream on the top side that starts 2 hours before slack, but one look at the condition of the sea ruled that out!
Any way lesson learned
Stu

 

[whipper_snapper]

There are some places where you 'do it by the book' unless you have a lot of local experience. IMHO Bardsey is one of them, Jack Sound is another. They are like mill ponds at the right time, but at the wrong time they are unpredictable and downright dangerous.

(Also in that area, Calf Sound, Strangford entrance....others ?)

 

[Searush]

I have to say I might have chosen to go round the outside & take my chances with the overfalls. From your write up, if the tide was N going & you were headed for Pwlhelli, I take it you were actually bucking the tide? Definitely something I would work hard to avoid.

 

[Heckler]

I have to say I might have chosen to go round the outside & take my chances with the overfalls. From your write up, if the tide was N going & you were headed for Pwlhelli, I take it you were actually bucking the tide? Definitely something I would work hard to avoid.

I weighed up the outside but the time taken would have given us probs getting on the mooring, as it happens the rough stuff (after looking more closely at the charts) was the aptly named devils tail. With hindsight we would have had the same probs around the outside, the way the tide ad seas were running. I must say the big donk (MD22) was the saviour, we actually stemmed the worst of the tide and made headway at 2 - 3 knots.
Stu

 

[mortehoe]

Ah ha ... motor sailing !!! (Not waiting for the tide)

It's what we have to do 50% of the time to make the tidal gates.

It's what all of us based in a different league than the south coast twisters have to do ... Let them forget TRIR and get them and YM + PBO to explore foreign seas and take part in the Round Anglesey Race .... that would teach them .....

Who was it who said in YM "that it's easier to sail round the world, than it is to sail round Anglesey" (JJ would know)

Bardsey Sound is a doddle providing you do your homework and follow the rules ... then explore the rules by adding time at either side .... For example if you read any pilot about going through the Swellies (Menai Strait) they now all say at high water slack only .... but when is high water slack? Dead easy: Liverpool (Alfred) minus 2 hours .... but you can always sail through with the tide at any state as long as the tide is with you and the wind with you (it can be very scary especially at low water springs .... Not really advised!!! L'pool (A) + 4 hours and then reverse the flows to work out whether its best to go either early or late ....)

I'm with RW* Searush on this (re Bardsey Sound) .... go outside if the tide is against/going to be against you ... OR if you have to wait and if it's oportune to heave-to then heave-to and wait.

Gone are the days of brigantines and square riggers. The days of waiting out cross tides seem to be gone.

Sailing sometimes has to be a waiting game .... BUT our work-hard/play-hard lifestyle dictates that we have to do it now now now ... make the passage according to the timetable ... and that's (IMO) not the ways that either the winds or the seas work.

Sorry!

Nige

*To Searush: Did you really araf nawr the llif notice in the gents??? .... and who scuppered freestyle's candidatecy for numero uno???? xxx Nige - Birgitta, Rowen Bay

next Yr Felinheli aka Port Dinorwic + frequenter of the TT/GP/Southern's etc. (They wouldn't understand)

 

[Heckler]

Araf nawr = slow now, llif = stream. IOM TT, Manx GP Southern 100,
Next?
Stu