Barber Haulers

[KREW2]

I've just made up 2 spinnaker sheets, I don't want to put 2 guys on as well, so I have made up 2 lenghts of 10ml braid on braid to rig up barber haulers. My questions are, do I really need them on a 10mtr boat, and if so, will I still need a downhaul?

 

[Genoa]

Do you need guys?
Well that depends on 2 things :
1. When you Gybe, can you easily attach the pole to the sheet? - Often on a run the sheet is out of reach, so to gybe the pole you have to do it after the gybe when the sheet is on the forestay (less control after a gybe / crew on foredeck waiting for main to come over? etc). The guy is easy to clip to as it is lazy before the gybe.
2. What other means have you got to 'guy' the pole on a reach? - possibly a snatch block on the sheet that can be hauled down to the toerail.. When the pole is on the forestay you need a line to it from the widest point to have anychance of holding it off.

A downhaul doesn't do the same job as the guy, it is abit like a kicker and a mainsheet, so yes, I'd have one.

10m - why does size matter? If you need more that your arm to hold a sheet outboard to get the angle to the forestay, you need a guy.

All IMHO of course ...

 

[rwoofer]

I've just made up 2 spinnaker sheets, I don't want to put 2 guys on as well, so I have made up 2 lenghts of 10ml braid on braid to rig up barber haulers. My questions are, do I really need them on a 10mtr boat, and if so, will I still need a downhaul?

I have used barber haulers on a smaller boat which worked fine. Did end-for-end gybing. Typically we used to release the barber haulers and let the spinnaker fly in cleaner air for the gybe, but if you could'nt reach the sheets you just whacked on the barber hauler. Can't see any reason why you couldn't do it on 10m as long as you can end-for-end.

 

[KREW2]

Thanks, I've only ever used a cruising chute on my own boats, I have crewed with folk that use a spinnaker, but this will be a first for me on my boat. Hope the learnin curve ain't too harsh.

 

[dunedin]

I've just made up 2 spinnaker sheets, I don't want to put 2 guys on as well, so I have made up 2 lenghts of 10ml braid on braid to rig up barber haulers. My questions are, do I really need them on a 10mtr boat, and if so, will I still need a downhaul?

So my boat came with this arrangement - and is 11m with a big masthead kite.
The race crew refers to the short ropes as "twinners" (rather than barber haulers) - rigged through the sheets with small pulleys on the end of the ropes, down to pulleys tied on toerail at widest point and back to cleats at the cockpit. Seemed to work Ok in the boats race days with a ful crew.
But we have the complexity of a babystay which has made dip pole gybes pretty impossible short handed - so for short handed sailing we have started to experiment with separate sheet and guy (attached such that both can be sprung off with one pull when dropping) to make the gybe easier.

 

[BAtoo]

I considered a single sheet system for my 31ft'r and decided against it.

There is alot of benefit for a lazy sheet/guy system. When gybing you can grab the lazy guy and have it in your hand as you end to end so its always in reach. When dropping the lazy guy can also be caught to pull the clew and sail down

If using barber haulers you still need 4 deck blocks, your BH rope is shorter than a second Guy/sheet but not by much, and you swap the BH block for a snap shackle so not a huge price difference.

 

[KREW2]

I considered a single sheet system for my 31ft'r and decided against it.

There is alot of benefit for a lazy sheet/guy system. When gybing you can grab the lazy guy and have it in your hand as you end to end so its always in reach. When dropping the lazy guy can also be caught to pull the clew and sail down

If using barber haulers you still need 4 deck blocks, your BH rope is shorter than a second Guy/sheet but not by much, and you swap the BH block for a snap shackle so not a huge price difference.

Makes sense, and as Dunedin has mentioned I have an inner baby stay which will make things a little harder.
Anybody wanna buy 30 mtrs of 10ml braid on braid?

 

[pcranness]

In answer to the downhaul question, yes you’ll need one! The pull from the spinnaker will be too strong to keep the pole down just using barber haulers. Having seen a few skyed poles in my time it isn’t fun.

The big question is in what weather you intend to use the spinnaker. In light airs having sheets should be fine, but as the wind increases the fun starts, as always. The two problems are gybing, and retrieving.
If it’s heavy airs gybes can be fun without an experienced foredeck crew, the sheets tend to be a long way from the centre line meaning the crew have to lean out to catch them, not recommended. Also as the spinnaker isn’t fixed via a pole it tends wave from side to side and trying to control this without guys is very hard.

When trying to retrieve a spinnaker with a bit of weight in it without guys to help does require a bit of bravery. Firstly you tend to lead out the leeward side of the boat to grab the sheet which can be a long way from the hull, with a guy you can pull a lot of slack though and almost gather the spinnaker to windward, under the boom, leaving the crew feeling safer.

 

[lw395]

Barber haulers aka twinning lines, stranglers or chokes work well.
Particulary with a double ended pole, if using with a single end pole, you need good gear on it, as it will need to move under load. So it's generally for boats up to say 35 ft ish.
They are much less string than a lazy guy/sheet, and can be lighter as they only deflect the guy by about 30 degrees, not take the full load. They can be lead to a big harken camcleat. On smaller craft the twinning line is sometimes one line across the boat.
You do still need a pole downhaul/foreguy of some sort.

You can also use them to tweak the sheeting angle of the kite.

 

[KREW2]

My previous boat had a cruising chute. I have crewed several times for people, even raced using a spinnaker, but this will be a first for me on my new boat. Last year, racing on a Trapper 300 with no down haul, the skipper managed to sky the pole, in very strong winds, that was fun, but not something I would like to do, so hence my question, would a barber hauler prevent this. Looking at the foredeck layout it seems to have provisions for a downhaul, as does the pole, so I will be rigging one up. This spinnaker thingy is new to me so I will only be doing it in light airs, until/if I get competent at it.

 

[lw395]

If the twinning line is far enough forward, you can sometimes do without a downhaul, but on most boats, that's so far forward that you need to ease the twinning line a long way on a broad reach in order to get the pole back, so it's generally a poor compromise imho.
Having the guy so far forward increases the effort needed to pull the pole back as you bear off, because it is working at a 'compromise' angle.
Go with the standard twinning line set up, practise in force 2-3 (less is frustrating and doesn't always teach you much).
Remember golden rule, if over powered, bear off towards very broad reach.
Have fun.