Back to the UK for a winter refit

[jimmy_the_builder]

Erk, what a Volvo mess up. I need to be sure I have the terminology right: "horn" is the bit that goes under the engine, hardly visible in pics, and "riser" is the curvy dull steel tube that is in fact the exhaust pipe right after the turbo, right?

Ref terminology, you're right. In this pic, the exhaust riser (aka water injection elbow) is #2:

And this one, the exhaust horn is #1:

The squashed-up rubber below in my photo is #8 above.

Could you get a welder to cut n shut mod the old riser so it becomes a copy of a new riser, and therefore mates nicely with the horn via the rubber bellows?

If you end up with 2x £1400k it looks like RK owe you a contribution if they advised change of horn without mentioning the necessary new riser cost. That looks to me like negligent advice, which you relied on, and you have suffered a loss, so they should it seems to me make you whole. Even in a world of compromising they should be talking imho about a contribution in the form of a pair of new risers at something less than cost price. It is utterly wrong imho for them to make a dealer margin on the new risers

Just my $0.02 based on what I see in your post. Good luck anyway

I'm not sure about the cut/shut of the riser; the angles are very tight. Cut/shut of the old horn would be more straightforward, although this is then a fabrication below the waterline, which obviously brings it's own issues.

Regarding the advice - yes, there was absolutely no mention of the need to replace the risers; in fact, it was the opposite advice, which was that the risers only needed cleaning and not replacement (and I made notes about this at the time, and acted on the advice). I have the written quote for the horn replacement here on my desk.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Sorry to read this Jimmy. Agree completely with jfm. RK, who are the supposed experts in this field, gave you bum advice and they should compensate you for that although Volvo have always had a policy of making their customers do their R & D so it must be tricky for RK to keep track of all ongoing mods. It's no consolation but better you found this out now rather than when the boat is back in France

As Mapism of this parish has regularly reminded me, BOAT = Bring Out Another Thousand

 

[MapisM]

LOL, I actually learned the expression from Pinnacle, IIRC.

Absolutely +1 also from my part re. jfm thoughts, fwiw.

 

[Portofino]

At the time of writing, I don't have a solution for this. I was hoping to relaunch next week, and all other tasks ahead of relaunch are currently on track. This one is currently a showstopper.[/QUOTE]

A solution cut the new elbow at that jiont above the bolt.
You need to keep the rubber connector to absorb vibration .-between potentially movement of engine and solid drive transome / horn
Fit the lower part of the sectioned elbow correctly lined up in the original rubber with the horn .
There will a gap of sorts - 3-5 cm ish ? ask a SS fabricator ( RK marine should know ? Or as others have said any automotive SS exhaust fabricator ) to make a template -perhaps using card + duct tape to get the exact part shape .
Remove the elbow replace the template -weld a SS insert
Refit -

ps I was in Antibes yesterday checking out "Sud Marine Diesel" for comsumables .almost next to entrance to new underground car park -they seem pretty good and have a big warehouse inland so if it's not there it will be next day

 

[jfm]

ps I was in Antibes yesterday checking out "Sud Marine Diesel" for comsumables

They're great if you want to pay €45 for a Racor filter that ASAP supplies will mail you for £10 Sorry for OT
Hope you're getting some contribution progress from RK Jimmy

 

[KevB]

If I'm looking at the right part, coastal rides have an unused D6 elbow for £200 + vat. One only though by the looks of it.

http://coastalrides.co.uk/engine---sterndrive-spares---parts/exhaust-parts/volvo-penta-exhaust-pipe-elbow-21684825

 

[KevB]

And if I'm not barking up the wrong tree... here's another old style for £600 delivered from the US. £850 for the pair and send the 'new' ones back as not fit for purpose?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Volvo-Penta-Exhuast-riser-D6-3841502-/251891289109?hash=item3aa5e40c15

 

[Portofino]

They're great if you want to pay €45 for a Racor filter that ASAP supplies will mail you for £10 Sorry for OT

Aarrh -did notice no prices as was just about to ask price of an air filter , when wife got v bored and shooed me out
Target price net - less than £90 I paid uk mail order for an Airfilter after one ( not clamped tight enough ) fell off into the bilge and got soaked on a foul weather outing
Yup fuel filters for the racors tenner a piece from ASAP
Thx for the heads up
Sorry for the drift Jimmy -

 

[Nick_H]

I'm told that it's possible to cut the corroded top four inches of the horn off and weld on fresh aluminium tube. This is a common fix for DPE drives apparently.

However, RK are saying that if we go down that route, there will be an additional cost to move the engines back out of the way again so that the new horns can be removed and the old/repaired horns reinstalled.

Taking jfm's point that RK have some culpability here, it's possible that it will be an easier pill for them to swallow to move the engines FOC than to provide new risers, because they already have the staff on the books and the crane in the yard, so there's no incremental cost to them. Just a thought.

 

[jfm]

KevB, I don't think you are following the plot

 

[Portofino]

Quick thought + poss explanation for this calamity
It's the wrong part !
It's for a none outdrive D6 -hence the water in pipe also miss fits
Is there another v similar part ( box / No confusion ? ) for the D6 on out drives

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

So it's a bit good news-bad news here today. The good news, sort of, is that Volvo GB have offered to fund one of the risers - but only one. I need to fund the other one. The bad news however is that the plumbing arrangements to the new riser are slightly different to the old riser, and so this will require a new hose from the aftercooler to the riser. £194 + vat each (one for each engine).

Apparently the main purpose of the redesign was to elevate the downstream end of the riser, so that it is definitely above the waterline. This was to address the galvanic corrosion issues I mention above (I think I said electrolytic, but you get the idea). The horn was then redesigned to add an anode. Today I've been told that the general arrangement of the redesigned horn is the same as that of the original horn; the issue is that the casting change to accommodate the anode means that rubber cuff or bellow that joins horn to riser cannot slip as far down the horn as before, and is therefore squashed when fitted to my existing riser. This doesn't happen with the redesigned riser because the distal end is about 20mm higher than the old riser.

RK are telling me that Volvo GB will not offer more goodwill, so currently I'm looking at about £2k for the one riser and two hoses. RK have suggested that one solution is to modify the rubber cuff to shape it round the anode casting on the horn, and the water injection elbow on the riser. This would involve taking about 10mm out of each end of the cuff at those particular points. I've suggested that they try this, and I'd said I'll accept this modification if they warrant it.

However, looking at your various suggestions (thanks all) I think Portofino might be on to something. The dimension we need to make this work is only 20mm. If the riser is sliced and rewelded as shown here (which I think is what Portofino is suggesting) then it seems to me that the problem is solved:

What does the panel think?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Quick thought + poss explanation for this calamity
It's the wrong part !
It's for a none outdrive D6 -hence the water in pipe also miss fits
Is there another v similar part ( box / No confusion ? ) for the D6 on out drives

Nope, it's definitely the right part.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Taking jfm's point that RK have some culpability here, it's possible that it will be an easier pill for them to swallow to move the engines FOC than to provide new risers, because they already have the staff on the books and the crane in the yard, so there's no incremental cost to them. Just a thought.

Yes, although at the moment RK's position is that this is entirely between me and Volvo GB...

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

And if I'm not barking up the wrong tree... here's another old style for £600 delivered from the US. £850 for the pair and send the 'new' ones back as not fit for purpose?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Volvo-Penta-Exhuast-riser-D6-3841502-/251891289109?hash=item3aa5e40c15

Thanks Kev, unfortunately those are the wrong risers. Plus, the issue is the horns, not the risers.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

They're great if you want to pay €45 for a Racor filter that ASAP supplies will mail you for £10 Sorry for OT
Hope you're getting some contribution progress from RK Jimmy

In fairness though they do follow the Volvo euro price list for VP items, we used them last year when servicing Vega and Heatwave, and they were pretty (if not completely) helpful.

 

[rafiki_]

Yes, although at the moment RK's position is that this is entirely between me and Volvo GB...

Easy for them to take this route, especially as they can smugly say that they have got some movement out of VP. Doesn't mean they should not put their hand in their own pockets though! They have done quite well out of you over this winter after all!

 

[stelican]

Sorry to hear of your on going problems with horn connections
How are you meant to change the anodes looks a bit mission impossible. Is it boat out of water disconnect elbow from turbo flange?
I would be very tempted to get another opinion on the condition of your original risers, Do you have photos of the corrosion damage.
Mine were corroded and the local Volvo dealer fitted the plastic caps 1997, I recently removed bellows and inspected and they are still serviceable. The boat spends 5 months a year on seawater mooring

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Sorry to hear of your on going problems with horn connections
How are you meant to change the anodes looks a bit mission impossible. Is it boat out of water disconnect elbow from turbo flange?
I would be very tempted to get another opinion on the condition of your original risers, Do you have photos of the corrosion damage.
Mine were corroded and the local Volvo dealer fitted the plastic caps 1997, I recently removed bellows and inspected and they are still serviceable. The boat spends 5 months a year on seawater mooring

Good thinking. In fact I did get a second opinion about the horns at the beginning of this week - and they are very definitely corroded underneath the rubber cuff. You could probably put them back into service, but they have been leaking and that's only going to get worse. I don't have photos here but I'll get some later this week.

Ref the horn anode, it is #5 in this diagram. You can change it from inside the boat, although on my particular installation the stdb anode cover is very difficult to get at.

 

[KevB]

Thanks Kev, unfortunately those are the wrong risers. Plus, the issue is the horns, not the risers.

I was deffinitely confused.. :ambivalence:

Looking at your pic with the suggested cut, wouldn't the loop in the riser touch or be very close that they may vibrate together?