Back to the UK for a winter refit

[BartW]

Maybe I'll remove a couple of the hoses from the boat (very easy with the engines out!) and take them to pirtek on Monday and see what the comparable price is.

yes very easy,
check what kind of hydraulic oil is in there; "white" or "red"
and bring a 5l container of new hydraulic oil from pirtek for refilling after you have re-installed the new or old hoses.

different applications might have different hose couplings, so you need to check each hose individually
I forgot to mention trimflap hoses, they had again another hose coupling, and red oil, all other have white oil.

the Hilo platform hoses, and the rudder pump hoses none of these needed changing so far.

 

[scubaman]

I also had two oil hoses (á 295 € @ Volvo prices) replaced by custom hoses prepared by a local hydraulics company. Price for the two was around 60€, iirc.

 

[RogerRat]

In fact it is probably the steering rams that annoys me the most out of all of this, because they were replaced only 2.5 years ago.

This refit is getting worrying and it looks to us like you're being held to ransom by Vp' on specialist parts while being quoted prices by a computer program written for dvlc or the passport office.:ambivalence:
Don't they realise the engines are out and sitting on the bench and their mechanic can literally walk up to the engine mounts and take them of with a pair of pliers?

The steering rams are now a known 'design' feature and should be given consideration by customer relations, just like the DPH phosphor bronze props that you can't protect and are known to dissolve. Vp have been changing these under warranty on certain Princess' every year since 2009.

Some of these items may well have to be replaced with specific Vp parts but not all. The steering hoses for example, can actually be replaced and upgraded at close to half Vp prices by replacement hydraulic hose companies. Col' had some made for me and they were seriously better quality and double the pressure spec. iirc.

The engine mounts are a real killer and wouldn't you think the replacements would include nuts and washers?
Still, I'm sure the old nuts and washers, if stainless, will be fine with a clean up.

RR

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

yes very easy,
check what kind of hydraulic oil is in there; "white" or "red"
and bring a 5l container of new hydraulic oil from pirtek for refilling after you have re-installed the new or old hoses.

different applications might have different hose couplings, so you need to check each hose individually
I forgot to mention trimflap hoses, they had again another hose coupling, and red oil, all other have white oil.

the Hilo platform hoses, and the rudder pump hoses none of these needed changing so far.

The ATF oil used in the power steering and trim installation is all red. I think this is also true for the trim tabs. I don't think I have anything that uses white hydraulic oil (what's the difference?).

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

This refit is getting worrying and it looks to us like you're being held to ransom by Vp' on specialist parts while being quoted prices by a computer program written for dvlc or the passport office.:ambivalence:
Don't they realise the engines are out and sitting on the bench and their mechanic can literally walk up to the engine mounts and take them of with a pair of pliers?

The steering rams are now a known 'design' feature and should be given consideration by customer relations, just like the DPH phosphor bronze props that you can't protect and are known to dissolve. Vp have been changing these under warranty on certain Princess' every year since 2009.

Some of these items may well have to be replaced with specific Vp parts but not all. The steering hoses for example, can actually be replaced and upgraded at close to half Vp prices by replacement hydraulic hose companies. Col' had some made for me and they were seriously better quality and double the pressure spec. iirc.

The engine mounts are a real killer and wouldn't you think the replacements would include nuts and washers?
Still, I'm sure the old nuts and washers, if stainless, will be fine with a clean up.

RR

VP customer relations are completely not interested in a 10 year old installation. No matter that this is the third time these rams are having to be replaced, they are just not interested. The trim rams are £202.00 each inc; the external hoses are £332.40 each side. With other sundries and ATF etc just on parts, to replace the rams is properly north of £1k, which VP apparently expect you to treat as a consumable.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

PS just for a change of tone, this pic was posted on the EBY/BCU twitter feed this morning. Pods!

 

[volvopaul]

Volvo Paul
Could it be that the screeching heard is from the belts rather than the tensioners?
Or maybe it is down to the dowsing of the tensioners in saltwater spray from filters

If the engines have the original plastic tensioners then the dealer will automatically throw them away at this stage of rebuild, if it had the smell ones I'm not sure why they would fail.

 

[volvopaul]

I've always said that the D 6 engine as a base block is great, it's everything else bolted to it that fails prematurely, the earlier motors don't require this level of rebuild at 10 years, the DPH drives , well that's another story. I don not agree that hoses and Rams are " consumables", the second batch of steering and trim hoses in my view seem to be working very well, the Rams are still another story, who designed an alloy ram to sit in salt water? A man who should have never been a designer in the marine industry!

 

[Richard Shead]

That will cost you more than a few engine mounts.......

 

[P4Paul]

Nope, the prices at volvopentashop.com are vat-inclusive. £442.80 is £369.00 + vat.

Ahh, didn't pick that up from my quick look at the website.

Would be a great article if a magazine spoke to a range of owners to develop some 'whole of life costs' of the various engine manufacturers and then up-date the figures on an annual basis.

 

[wakeup]

PS just for a change of tone, this pic was posted on the EBY/BCU twitter feed this morning. Pods!

Ahh, may be you should relocate or extend your pods further forward then Jimmy to be completely up to date,

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Give these people a call http://www.robush.co.uk/products/trelleborg_range/PDFS/Cushyfloat.pdf they make/supply most of the OEM mounts for VP and are a fraction of the cost, I just got 2 for my KAD 32 for abot £40 each.

Right. A beer for Aquapower whenever our paths cross (eg 15 January 2015 at LIBS, if you're going to be there): I just spoke to Robush. The Cushyfloats that are the OE fit for my installation are £58.82 plus vat each, plus about £15 carriage. And they are in stock. (I just need to get the right rubber hardness, which should be stamped on the existing mounts).

I recognise that I still to source the bolts etc but still, this is a massive saving. Thanks again.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Jimmy, stated in a "me too" tone of voice (!), I organised the financing on the MBO of Pirtek, perhaps 15 years ago, I can't remember, and they were a very good company even back then. I think now they are top dog in this sector, with zillions of branches all over the place making swaged hydraulic hoses. I think you can have a lot of confidence in them, and as Bart says get basically the same product without the "marine" premium

Not in my sector! Yes Pirtek are all over the country and we use them a lot ourselves but the quality of work varies according to how good the franchisee is and how good the technicians are that the franchisee employs. But yes Pirtek are worth using but check the spec of the hoses and fittings they use as they have been known to make mistakes

 

[BartW]

Right. A beer for Aquapower whenever our paths cross (eg 15 January 2015 at LIBS, if you're going to be there): I just spoke to Robush. The Cushyfloats that are the OE fit for my installation are £58.82 plus vat each, plus about £15 carriage. And they are in stock. (I just need to get the right rubber hardness, which should be stamped on the existing mounts).

I recognise that I still to source the bolts etc but still, this is a massive saving. Thanks again.

haha good going !
this is my style of boat rebuilding ;-)
and not to forget the wealth on info here on this forum !

 

[rafiki_]

Right. A beer for Aquapower whenever our paths cross (eg 15 January 2015 at LIBS, if you're going to be there): I just spoke to Robush. The Cushyfloats that are the OE fit for my installation are £58.82 plus vat each, plus about £15 carriage. And they are in stock. (I just need to get the right rubber hardness, which should be stamped on the existing mounts).

I recognise that I still to source the bolts etc but still, this is a massive saving. Thanks again.

Yep, seems about the right price to me Jimmy. Still a serious mark-up in the pricing, so all happy

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

not to forget the wealth on info here on this forum !

Yep, if only there was an award I could nominate this forum for ... oh, wait ...

 

[aquapower]

Right. A beer for Aquapower whenever our paths cross (eg 15 January 2015 at LIBS, if you're going to be there): I just spoke to Robush. The Cushyfloats that are the OE fit for my installation are £58.82 plus vat each, plus about £15 carriage. And they are in stock. (I just need to get the right rubber hardness, which should be stamped on the existing mounts).

I recognise that I still to source the bolts etc but still, this is a massive saving. Thanks again.

Pleased they could help, not sure i can do the 15th as its SWMBO birthday will be there first w/end this time.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

If the engines have the original plastic tensioners then the dealer will automatically throw them away at this stage of rebuild, if it had the smell ones I'm not sure why they would fail.

Hi Paul - yep, the tensioners and idlers that are on there at the moment are the black plastic ones with the turbine design. I bought a spare tensioner as an on-board spare about a year ago, and looking at it now I see that it has a different design, solid metal. Has the black plastic design been superceded then?

Fwiw I think these tensioners and idlers are INA brand, made by Schaeffler. Not completely sure though, still working on it.

Incidentally ... recognise this? I was so impressed with your one of these when you came down to France last year that I have nicked the idea and made a similar thing. Handy for cleaning the bilge (although it doesn't seem to like degreaser very much!).

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

So today was a slightly scary day - I did this to my bathing platform:

In fact this is a necessary precursor to the removal of the existing platform, the point of removing the proximal margin board was to expose the machine screws that fix the bathing platform to the transom (you can see two of these in the photo, the clearest one is just by the end of the handle of the hammer). Still felt a bit uncomfortable taking a hammer and chisel to a perfectly good bathing platform though

 

[volvopaul]

Ooo

Hi Paul - yep, the tensioners and idlers that are on there at the moment are the black plastic ones with the turbine design. I bought a spare tensioner as an on-board spare about a year ago, and looking at it now I see that it has a different design, solid metal. Has the black plastic design been superceded then?

Fwiw I think these tensioners and idlers are INA brand, made by Schaeffler. Not completely sure though, still working on it.

Incidentally ... recognise this? I was so impressed with your one of these when you came down to France last year that I have nicked the idea and made a similar thing. Handy for cleaning the bilge (although it doesn't seem to like degreaser very much!).

Looks a great design Jimmy, there should not be a problem pumping degreaser, eventually the impellers fail, I nitrile impeller May last longer. Good luck with the rebuild.