Back to the UK for a winter refit

[vas]

J,

slightly confused here, engines are out, OK.
Are they at the workshop of the company quoting?
Prices look OTT even if they'd not notice the engines are in the workshop and they have to lower labour by a decent percent.
As others say, stupid expensive, would be interesting to ask labour and parts quote for say the engine mounts!!! what 350-400quid for parts and how much for labour? It will be cheaper for me to come first class from Greece and unbolt a few nuts for you

Hope you have enough time to change your mind and mechanic of course!

good luck in halving the quote!

cheers

V.

 

[Elessar]

So, the quotes for the engine refit are in. And they are a bit eye-watering, to say the least:
- new engine mounts: £2100
- starter motor refurbish £240
- refurbish heat exchangers £2700
- clean up and paint the outdrive h-frame £630
- change all belt tensioners £1900
- clean exhaust water injection elbows £150
- replace exhaust horns £830
- replace internal steering hoses £960
- general replace corroded jubilee clips £380
- replace steering rams (again), one trim ram (again), external steering hoses (again) £2600

This is all in addition to the regular annual engine and drive service (£2060), the cost of removing and refitting the engines (£1800) and the storage ashore while the project is going on (£1100).

Crumbs. That's £12490 of exceptional items, plus the £4960 I already knew about. So: £17450 in total. Makes Bartw's engine repair look like a bargain at €8000...

Have you asked Col for a competitive quote?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Thanks for all the replies. I've got a lot of detail behind these numbers, so let's have a look at the engine mounts:

The engine mount for the outdrive installation of the D6 is part number 21203504. There are two per engine, at the front (the rear of the engine bolts through the transom shield. These mounts are £369.00. Each. Plus vat. That's a barely believeable £1771.20.

Also, you need two nuts per mount at £1.20 per nut plus vat. Total £11.52. And (apparently) 16 lock washers at £4.00 each plus vat, total £76.80.

Total for parts: £1859.52. Four hours labour to remove and refit at £57.00 per hour plus vat. Total labour charge £273.60 (this is an hour per mount, which I think is because they are assuming that the old mounts will need to be cut off). Grand total £2133.12. I rounded it down to £2100

 

[P4Paul]

There is nothing clever about the engine mounts, so the £2100 must include removal of the engines surely. Are there 4 mounts per engine? Even with hugely inflated marine parts, these cannot be much more than £50 a pop.

A quick look on the volvo penta website puts them at £442.80 + VAT each. (Pr no 21203504)

At least you got some discount...

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Shame they did not quote before taking engines out
Why are the engine mount so expensive?
Stunned!

It's a bit chicken-and-egg, it's hard to know what to quote for until you can get a good look round the engines. And in fairness to the yard, I was very clear that I wanted to take the engines out anyway, because I could see corrosion that I wanted to address, and I wanted to properly clean the engine compartment.

But regarding the engine mounts, I have absolutely no idea how VP justify their pricing on these. The other thing they systemically overcharge for are washers, fwiw.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

that made me smile Jimmy, but I'm not going to show you the parts list, it looks like a complete engine

now seriously,
your quote appears really exagerated, and a real marine inflated / boat owner quotation,
and You're probably obliged to work with them.

I've alway's tried to employ a company or person I can thrust and charges normal hourly rates (35euro/hr in Montenegro )

a year ago I had a friend inspecting and cleaning 2 x heat exchangers and 2 x intercooler (= heat exchanger) on my MAN's
it took him ONE full day and a few gaskets, faaaar from £2700

hopefully soon a Volvo engineer will show up in this thread and give knowledgeable advice.

In fact I am not locked in with this yard. I have contracted with them to remove and refit the engines, and to store the boat in their yard. So far, I haven't instructed them on anything else, and it is clearly understood that I can take the engines away to another provider for overhaul.

I'm jealous of your hourly rate though, I'm paying almost three times as much here.

The quote for heat exchangers is probably the least transparent of the quotes I have in front of me - parts total is £1325.84, of which £816.00 is 'refurb parts for exchangers'. I don't know what this actually is. However, they are quoting 2.5 days labour for this work which _does_ seem very strong to me, especially given that the engines are already right there in the workshop.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Flip, £2k for belt tensioners when the engines are already on the bench seems a bit tasty. Did you spec the platinum tensioners with iridium pulleys?

Belt tensioners is £1350.96 parts plus a days labour. The labour time is arguable, for sure - but again the big cost is VP parts prices. Tensioners are £169.20 each for the cheap one, and £261.60 for an expensive one. Idlers £61.56 each.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Eek -J - sorry to see this .
I held fire on many potential boat changes and Pex,s offered by Sunseeker -that had Vp D6 with / without DPH drives -some had IPS .
Superhawk 43's ,the new P 400 , + some others -marques . My KAD 300s were due a biggi any time soon - luckerly I sold the boat .,having scraped by with just annuals for 9 Y
But if it's a keeper you will have piece of mind .If its not some invoices to help differentiate it from the chaff @ resale .
Engine mounts are they solid gold ingots
Steering ram woes thats Allways going to be a live with issue with the DPH .-I guess man maths fuel saving with drives .
Or man maths divide by 10 / years ownership or somthing ?
Good luck with it all .

In fact it is probably the steering rams that annoys me the most out of all of this, because they were replaced only 2.5 years ago.

 

[aquapower]

Give these people a call http://www.robush.co.uk/products/trelleborg_range/PDFS/Cushyfloat.pdf they make/supply most of the OEM mounts for VP and are a fraction of the cost, I just got 2 for my KAD 32 for abot £40 each.

 

[BartW]

The quote for heat exchangers is probably the least transparent of the quotes I have in front of me - parts total is £1325.84, of which £816.00 is 'refurb parts for exchangers'. I don't know what this actually is. However, they are quoting 2.5 days labour for this work which _does_ seem very strong to me, especially given that the engines are already right there in the workshop.

here is how one heat exchangers looked;

and this is a intercooler

perfectly clean, so no work on cleaning

perhaps they estimate for a lot of cleaning work (?)

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Give these people a call http://www.robush.co.uk/products/trelleborg_range/PDFS/Cushyfloat.pdf they make/supply most of the OEM mounts for VP and are a fraction of the cost, I just got 2 for my KAD 32 for abot £40 each.

That's a very helpful link, thanks - those mounts look just like the mounts that are on there at the moment. Blimey. I'll ring them in the morning.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

There is nothing clever about the engine mounts, so the £2100 must include removal of the engines surely. Are there 4 mounts per engine? Even with hugely inflated marine parts, these cannot be much more than £50 a pop. Have your tried ASAP for prices? What are the heat exchangers being refurbished with? I'm not sure precious metals as really needed in these components? Again, stainless steel is the best material for jubilee clips, not unobtainium. How many belt tensioners? 2 or 3 per engine. Again, it looks like you are paying a third time to lift the engines. The total quote appears £10k too heavy imo Jimmy. Have you asked any other techies like VP or Mercuryman?
Jimmy, ASAP sell Vetus mounts for £40 upwards, other suppliers £20 up. Clearly depends on the weight of your engines, but easy to source this from Volvo. I would be tempted to source the belt tensioners from a CV factors, if you can get your hands on one from your engine.

Hi Raf, nope, good try but unfortunately that £2100 really is just for the engine mounts (see my post below with detailed costings).

In fact I am in touch with R&D Marine who make couplings (ASAP sell them). They may have a suitable alternative although we haven't pinned this down yet (dialogue ongoing).

Ref the belt tensioners, there are two per engine, plus three idler pulleys per engine. These pulleys do wear and get screechy, but VP won't sell you just the wearing part, they will only sell you a complete tensioner assembly.

 

[aquapower]

That's a very helpful link, thanks - those mounts look just like the mounts that are on there at the moment. Blimey. I'll ring them in the morning.

Bolts are extra if required, even with my VP centre staff discount I passed on buying from Volvo at that price.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Bolts are extra if required, even with my VP centre staff discount I passed on buying from Volvo at that price.

Aren't the bolts just M20 stainless studding though?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

here is how one heat exchangers looked;

and this is a intercooler

perfectly clean, so no work on cleaning

perhaps they estimate for a lot of cleaning work (?)

Yep, indeed. Mine were cleaned by VolvoPaul 18 months ago so it'll be interesting to see how 70-80 hours use has affected them when we get them apart.

 

[stelican]

mounts

Thanks for all the replies. I've got a lot of detail behind these numbers, so let's have a look at the engine mounts:

The engine mount for the outdrive installation of the D6 is part number 21203504. There are two per engine, at the front (the rear of the engine bolts through the transom shield. These mounts are £369.00. Each. Plus vat. That's a barely believeable £1771.20.

Also, you need two nuts per mount at £1.20 per nut plus vat. Total £11.52. And (apparently) 16 lock washers at £4.00 each plus vat, total £76.80.

Total for parts: £1859.52. Four hours labour to remove and refit at £57.00 per hour plus vat. Total labour charge £273.60 (this is an hour per mount, which I think is because they are assuming that the old mounts will need to be cut off). Grand total £2133.12. I rounded it down to £2100

Have the mounts failed or are they just corroded?
£4 each for a lock washer just indicates you are being taken for a ride. defence is "genuine Volvo washers gov"
Stick the boat and engines on a lorry and go elsewhere

 

[BartW]

Mine were cleaned by VolvoPaul 18 months ago so it'll be interesting to see how 70-80 hours use has affected them when we get them apart.

the pics above were at least after 500hrs of usage that I know of,
the bolds of the intercooler looked untouched so it might aswell have been approx 2700hrs at that moment

 

[volvopaul]

Belt tensioners is £1350.96 parts plus a days labour. The labour time is arguable, for sure - but again the big cost is VP parts prices. Tensioners are £169.20 each for the cheap one, and £261.60 for an expensive one. Idlers £61.56 each.

8 hours , I serviced both those engines in that time, tensions on the floor in a nice warm workshop an hour each engine max.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Have the mounts failed or are they just corroded?
£4 each for a lock washer just indicates you are being taken for a ride. defence is "genuine Volvo washers gov"
Stick the boat and engines on a lorry and go elsewhere

Very corroded, and the advice is to replace.

I do want to reiterate that the parts prices I've quoted are not being set by the yard - they are published Volvo Penta prices.

What I need to do, I think, is find alternative suppliers where possible - like the link that aquapower has very helpfully provided above. I would very much like to find an alternative supplier for the pulleys on the belt idlers and adjusters. And, if possible, I'd also like to find an alternative supplier of the power steering hoses, particularly those located inside the engine compartment.

 

[volvopaul]

Yep, indeed. Mine were cleaned by VolvoPaul 18 months ago so it'll be interesting to see how 70-80 hours use has affected them when we get them apart.

Not totally stripped and cleaned just the end caps off for new o rings and a scrape and wire brush. Even in med temp waters they didn't overheat.