Azimut 46 - new battery charger system plus service/house batteries, engines battery and gen. battery

[Skipper Felice]

Matteo from “ Doc Yacht “ on the marina will supply , fit and take away old batteries.
He will know a boat electrician too who will do as assessment first . Inc your charger .
This stuff is better accessed by a professional imho rather than random armchair key board warriors .

We had a 120 AH Dolphin charger for 2x 180 Ah domestic and the same engine starters .
The original was a tiny 30 A .

These days modern chargers have multiple stages inc trickle - maintenance + many more . Tend to look after the batteries better than chargers of old .

Thanks Porto !!! - I am in contact with "Dr. Yacht" ... and we will organize the project together.

And the console gauges - yes ... indicate about 30A charging when running ... but the Stb. indicator is dead, I have to fix that.

 

[Portofino]

I am a professional. If "keyboard warriors" are excluded, best you don't post anything.

Is it not possible to measure them or look the make/models.

So do all of the big sellers.

30A is about right for 360Ah, 120Ah is ridiculous.

Why does he need to "figure out" his alternators ? They are what they are, he wants new batteries and chargers, that's all. No rocker science involved here.

What’s your point ?

You can measure and order …..but law of sod happens . They send one that doesn’t fit . Or worse a few .
Now what ? when the del driver has disappeared and it’s a BH tomorrow ? Or it’s a hike by car to return it .2 hr lunches in the Med .

The OP has a batt guy on his marina . Infact two . Why not use him , takes away all the potential hassles . Why mail order in Italy mindful of there summer shut downs , strikes and bank hols ?

For what to save €2 and find they either didn’t deliver or if they did they are the wrong ones . It’d was the pickers first day
Then he has to man handle the .things in / out of the boat ….away to the disposal point .
Matteo ( and his helper ) will do all this . He only displays a few in the shop . So it’s easy to causally look and not see yours and go else where . But as said he has a huge lock up with huge stock .

120 Ah modern “ smart “ charger is 10 yrs old now and still going . As said it never had to reach its max 120 Ah , that was the point .
80 in 360 for 15-20 mins stuff / bulk or what ever they call it worked a treat .
My lead acids lasted from 5-7 yrs . I explained the hostile environment the charger was in and indeed the batts .

Left on 24/7 when we were absent BTW .


alternator (s) …it might be they are not fully functioning = so the batts when running/ motoring not getting optimal recharge. This could be masked ? Puts more strain on the batts and ultimately the tiny charger accelerating it’s demise .
Worth checking out with his new to him Boat .
Otherwise throwing fresh batts in could be regular occurrence ?

They might just need there contact s and connections cleaning up ….really simple or the exciter paraphernalia cleaning or replacing . Or alternatively they are in great shape …..which is nice to know so the focus can return to the batts / chargers . Don’t assume anything with a new to you yr 2000 boat .

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I could probably help?

That’s a good offer I’ve got so many jobs to do I don’t know where to start, but at the moment, AFAIK the batteries and charging all seem to work perfectly so that’s lower down the list! Maybe spring 26.

 

[Portofino]

You need to learn the difference between amps and amp hours, plus correct charger sizing before giving keyboard warrior advice.

Why ?
Has / had zero effect on the outcome.

Reiterating i used a professional boat sparky …….ps don’t shoot the messenger.

What he explained in upsizing from a trad charger to a a then smart “ charger in the Med made perfect sense back in 2015 and as time has passed the instal is uneventful.

Many nights @ anchor , many nights in dodgy marinas visiting pontoons with knack all shore power .

 

[Skipper Felice]

The size was something to do with getting one that works at a lower % of its potential in use . As opposed to a smaller working it nuts off in the very hot Med engine room ….when the boats not moving or engines running . Remember the massive 26 L in total engines when running even at low rpm would move a significant amount of air …think of it as a cooling draft through the ER .
How ever @ anchor or worse still berthed in a concrete marina with heat soak of the marina infrastructure + the iron engines ..= heat build up .
Prefer a big one taking it easy ,coping with its own fans running over a little one getting stressed out in the hot ER - Thinking longevity.

I didn’t spec it a boat sparky did ….after a full survey .

Temperature in the motor room / battery room - charger system is an important point:

The last few weeks it was very hot around the Med: Running the engines 2-3 hours to go to the next port in the evening gets a motorromm temp. of around 85-90 deg. - a hot sauna! Arrivin at the port outside under the sun you have 50 deg! Now - moored in the port you plug in the shore power ... and the 12V charger starts running in an environment of around 65-80 deg. for the next two hours: We have this seen on many stopovers - and your equipement has to handle the temperatures for some hours.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Why ?
Has / had zero effect on the outcome.

Reiterating i used a professional boat sparky …….ps don’t shoot the messenger.

What he explained in upsizing from a trad charger to a a then smart “ charger in the Med made perfect sense back in 2015 and as time has passed the instal is uneventful.

Many nights @ anchor , many nights in dodgy marinas visiting pontoons with knack all shore power .

Why ?

It demonstrates that you are exactly the keyboard warrior that you criticized earlier, you don't actually understand the subject matter.

 

[Skipper Felice]

I like to give you the details of the actual installations:
The good moments of yachting ... ...



The bad side of old electrical installations / batteries:

Old Azimut main charger, 12V, 90A - on Plate, but we mesure only 3 to 14A overall, fuses ok checked



The 3 main service batt., lead acid, noname?, old/no date?, loose capacity within 5 hours of no load ...:



The engine + generator starter batt:

 

[Tranona]

What’s your point ?

You can measure and order …..but law of sod happens . They send one that doesn’t fit . Or worse a few .
Now what ? when the del driver has disappeared and it’s a BH tomorrow ? Or it’s a hike by car to return it .2 hr lunches in the Med .

The OP has a batt guy on his marina . Infact two . Why not use him , takes away all the potential hassles . Why mail order in Italy mindful of there summer shut downs , strikes and bank hols ?

For what to save €2 and find they either didn’t deliver or if they did they are the wrong ones . It’d was the pickers first day
Then he has to man handle the .things in / out of the boat ….away to the disposal point .
Matteo ( and his helper ) will do all this . He only displays a few in the shop . So it’s easy to causally look and not see yours and go else where . But as said he has a huge lock up with huge stock .

120 Ah modern “ smart “ charger is 10 yrs old now and still going . As said it never had to reach its max 120 Ah , that was the point .
80 in 360 for 15-20 mins stuff / bulk or what ever they call it worked a treat .
My lead acids lasted from 5-7 yrs . I explained the hostile environment the charger was in and indeed the batts .

Left on 24/7 when we were absent BTW .


alternator (s) …it might be they are not fully functioning = so the batts when running/ motoring not getting optimal recharge. This could be masked ? Puts more strain on the batts and ultimately the tiny charger accelerating it’s demise .
Worth checking out with his new to him Boat .
Otherwise throwing fresh batts in could be regular occurrence ?

They might just need there contact s and connections cleaning up ….really simple or the exciter paraphernalia cleaning or replacing . Or alternatively they are in great shape …..which is nice to know so the focus can return to the batts / chargers . Don’t assume anything with a new to you yr 2000 boat .

Every time you post waffle like this you only confirm your ignorance about the subject matter. Best to stop digging.

 

[MapisM]

Old Azimut main charger, 12V, 90A - on Plate, but we mesure only 3 to 14A overall, fuses ok checked

So, what? You can't be sure that the charger is defective based on the fact that it puts out less current than the max it's rated for, because that may be all the batteries can take.
BTW, I'm asking because I had the same charger on my previous boat of the mid 90s, and while it's rather agricultural when compared to modern stuff, it's pretty much bulletproof.
In fact, the only reason why I replaced it with a Victron Multiplus a dozen or so of years ago is that I wanted to have also an inverter, and while I was at that I used it also as a charger.
But the new owner of the boat confirms me that the old charger (which I left wired as a backup) is still working as it should, even if 30+ years old.
Trouble is, that alone doesn't give you any status monitoring, aside from its tiny and very rough ammeter visible also in your pic.

That aside, ref. your batteries pics:
1) what do you mean exactly by lose capacity in 5 hours under no load, for the service bank?
The multimeter shows 13V, which isn't enough to assess the batteries conditions, but as such it doesn't confirm they are bad, either.
2) in the engine & genset batteries pic, I guess the multimeter isn't properly connected, because no voltage at all is unheard of - and pretty sure not enough to turn any engine on!
Besides, the wiring looks a bit odd. Is the disconnector visible at the bottom right of the pic meant to start the genset with the engine battery, should the smaller genset battery fail?

 

[Portofino]

I like to give you the details of the actual installations:
The good moments of yachting ... ...
View attachment 196966


The bad side of old electrical installations / batteries:

Old Azimut main charger, 12V, 90A - on Plate, but we mesure only 3 to 14A overall, fuses ok checked

View attachment 196967

The 3 main service batt., lead acid, noname?, old/no date?, loose capacity within 5 hours of no load ...:

View attachment 196968

The engine + generator starter batt:

View attachment 196969

Thx for posting pics confirming exactly what I have said , or “waffling “ is good info .
Arh just as I predicted, figured out base on experience . A pic or two , three does indeed paint a 1000 words .

The three main service batts have specific post postisons and there no room for dimensional error in that box .


Sure as I said the old Dynamica charger is decaying , throwing out “ 3-14 “ despite having a 90 A label .

Nice berth btw .

 

[MapisM]

I think in 2000 most boats had been installed with 12V systems?

Nothing to see with age, it's just a matter of boat size and builder choice.
IIRC, Azimut used to go for 24 rather than 12V starting from 50' or so.

 

[MapisM]

Sure as I said the old Dynamica charger is decaying , throwing out “ 3-14 “ despite having a 90 A label.

Why "sure"??? See my post #29.
BTW, how SF can tell 3 from 14 (or whatever) based on that ammeter is a mistery to me.

 

[Skipper Felice]

That aside, ref. your batteries pics:
1) what do you mean exactly by lose capacity in 5 hours under no load, for the service bank?

Yes - there was load around 38A x 5 = 190Ah .... full should be +/- 600Ah and batt went to 12.2 V

The multimeter shows 13V, which isn't enough to assess the batteries conditions, but as such it doesn't confirm they are bad, either.
2) in the engine & genset batteries pic, I guess the multimeter isn't properly connected, because no voltage at all is unheard of - and pretty sure not enough to turn any engine on!

Besides, the wiring looks a bit odd. Is the disconnector visible at the bottom right of the pic meant to start the genset with the engine battery, should the smaller genset battery fail?

Multimeter was NOT connected! = 0.00
The switch at the bottom connects both batteries together.

 

[Skipper Felice]

Thx for posting pics confirming exactly what I have said , or “waffling “ is good info .
Arh just as I predicted, figured out base on experience . A pic or two , three does indeed paint a 1000 words .

The three main service batts have specific post postisons and there no room for dimensional error in that box .

Sure as I said the old Dynamica charger is decaying , throwing out “ 3-14 “ despite having a 90 A label .

Nice berth btw .

Well - the old Dynamica charger will be gone next week!!! - It has no control over the charging curve as has a new Victron Multiplus 2.
I will take care for the room in the box - no problem - all checked.
Open question is: AGM or GEL ???

And I know Vivtron batt. are expensive - I will try to make a good deal but it has to be delivered ... I can not handle a 65kg piece of battery!

 

[Skipper Felice]

Why "sure"??? See my post #29.
BTW, how SF can tell 3 from 14 (or whatever) based on that ammeter is a mistery to me.

The ammeter on the Dynamica seems not working - dead, also the green lamp is dead. I will no more investigate into this old piece of electronics.
Measurement was done with a real, external ammeter.

 

[jakew009]

This thread basically explains why many boats go backwards in condition despite enormous piles of money being thrown at them.

4500 euro to end up with 800Ah of AGM batteries and a 50A Phoenix charger is bananas imo.

Even if you want to stick with Victron batteries, you could buy 400Ah of LiFePO4, an Orion XS 50 to charge them, and a Victron Multiplus 1200 charger / inverter. You would have more usable battery capacity, much faster charging, a 230V inverter for “free”, money left over and you won’t be replacing them all again in a couple of years time.

There is no need to worry about how to fit them, they will take up so much less space than the old ones it’s irrelevant.

 

[Skipper Felice]

This thread basically explains why many boats go backwards in condition despite enormous piles of money being thrown at them.

4500 euro to end up with 800Ah of AGM batteries and a 50A Phoenix charger is bananas imo.

Even if you want to stick with Victron batteries, you could buy 400Ah of LiFePO4, an Orion XS 50 to charge them, and a Victron Multiplus 1200 charger / inverter. You would have more usable battery capacity, much faster charging, a 230V inverter for “free”, money left over and you won’t be replacing them all again in a couple of years time.

There is no need to worry about how to fit them, they will take up so much less space than the old ones it’s irrelevant.

Good comment: My goal of the refit of the main electrical system is to GO FORWARDS with a professional charger/inverter/battery system and have a good freedom to stay on anchor for 2-3 days (with additional gen set.

I clearly see that the 3 owners before me DID NOT DO IT ... there are many electrical (amateur) installations from the former owners that are not at all professional - I will replace / reengineer them.

The question is: Lithium or GEL/AGM ?
I myself have still many concerns about fire hazards and incidents with Li / but I know that LI is the better technology. My insurance company (Pantaenius) is asking questions when you install LI / the insurance will be higher ...

So - at the end of the day we will have the discussion about old/conventional batt. technology or LiFePo4 for daily use on a motoryacht.

 

[Tranona]

The three main service batts have specific post postisons and there no room for dimensional error in that box .

Why is that a problem that needs "diagnosis"? They are pretty standard batteries and not difficult to look at the diagram on the spec sheets to order batteries with the same post location.

You seem to have a habit of creating problems that do not exist.

 

[Clash]

Good comment: My goal of the refit of the main electrical system is to GO FORWARDS with a professional charger/inverter/battery system and have a good freedom to stay on anchor for 2-3 days (with additional gen set.

I clearly see that the 3 owners before me DID NOT DO IT ... there are many electrical (amateur) installations from the former owners that are not at all professional - I will replace / reengineer them.

The question is: Lithium or GEL/AGM ?
I myself have still many concerns about fire hazards and incidents with Li / but I know that LI is the better technology. My insurance company (Pantaenius) is asking questions when you install LI / the insurance will be higher ...

So - at the end of the day we will have the discussion about old/conventional batt. technology or LiFePo4 for daily use on a motoryacht.

LiFePo4 batteries have a very low fire risk and a far better charging profile than LiOn.

Also, I haven't seen anyone here suggest a possible current leak. You say previous owners have done many amateur electrical installations, so it's possible that one or more of these is draining the batteries. I would disconnect the batteries and see if they hold a charge longer than when connected. It's a simple test and won't take long.

Not suggesting you keep the old batteries, more that you should know if there is a fault that will drain your new batteries and cause you more trouble.

 

[PaulRainbow]

This thread basically explains why many boats go backwards in condition despite enormous piles of money being thrown at them.

4500 euro to end up with 800Ah of AGM batteries and a 50A Phoenix charger is bananas imo.

Even if you want to stick with Victron batteries, you could buy 400Ah of LiFePO4, an Orion XS 50 to charge them, and a Victron Multiplus 1200 charger / inverter. You would have more usable battery capacity, much faster charging, a 230V inverter for “free”, money left over and you won’t be replacing them all again in a couple of years time.

There is no need to worry about how to fit them, they will take up so much less space than the old ones it’s irrelevant.

I've said pretty much this twice. Expensive lead acid batteries make no sense for most installations, certainly not in this case.

BTW i think one of those silly money batteries is for engine start, he only has room for 3 domestics.