Avoiding whale strikes - Antifouling colour

[AntarcticPilot]

Why are you worried about being 'attacked' by a whale? I mean Whales are not aggressive unless they have calves with them. Curious & clumsy maybe, but aggressive they ain't.

We've had Brydes whale surface alongside (I mean touching distance away!) for a look, 4 Sie whales pass pass just clear of the keel, a family group of Pilot whales with calves come to the boat for look. Never once did we feel threatened by these fantastic mammals. Our anti-foul has been white, black and now red. I don't think it makes any difference.

I'd be more worried about trees and big sheets of plastic floating around the ocean and coastal waters. I've hit a few trees at night and in poor vis!

Well, one reason is that two famous survival at sea accounts (101 days Adrift and Survive the Savage Sea) started with yachts being sunk by encounters with whales. Orcas and Sperm Whales are definitely capable of aggression; the baleen whales are probably less of a concern.

 

[Ariadne]

Well I've read both books a few times (and still have them on board) and I must admit I'm still very dubious about the attack bit. But, I'm happy to be corrected if somebody can prove actual whale attack. Not accidental collision, landing on when breaching (like being in a known breeding area sort of thing) or defense when calves or cows are around during or just after the breeding season, or even after just being chased or in the area of a whaling fleet; but actual unprovoked attack by a whale.

I pretty sure if Whales attacked boats then we'd hear of a lot more attacks these days, as there are possibly 4 or 5 times if not more yachts out there as there were when incidents occurred.

Although, plenty of whales do get hit and injured by racing yachts, but that doesn't count as the whale was in the way and it may have buggered up your race/rally/whatever, or do these count as attacks by whales as well?

I'd really like to know about unprovoked attacks by whales, it will be a great school project for the kids.

 

[ukmctc]

Well, one reason is that two famous survival at sea accounts (101 days Adrift and Survive the Savage Sea) started with yachts being sunk by encounters with whales. Orcas and Sperm Whales are definitely capable of aggression; the baleen whales are probably less of a concern.

Geezo, I think you have more real problems to think on, you probably won't even see a whale on you voyage according to percentages, but there is a real possibility you could be captured by........aliens!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Well I've read both books a few times (and still have them on board) and I must admit I'm still very dubious about the attack bit. But, I'm happy to be corrected if somebody can prove actual whale attack. Not accidental collision, landing on when breaching (like being in a known breeding area sort of thing) or defense when calves or cows are around during or just after the breeding season, or even after just being chased or in the area of a whaling fleet; but actual unprovoked attack by a whale.

I pretty sure if Whales attacked boats then we'd hear of a lot more attacks these days, as there are possibly 4 or 5 times if not more yachts out there as there were when incidents occurred.

Although, plenty of whales do get hit and injured by racing yachts, but that doesn't count as the whale was in the way and it may have buggered up your race/rally/whatever, or do these count as attacks by whales as well?

I'd really like to know about unprovoked attacks by whales, it will be a great school project for the kids.

You can't generalize; whale species differ wildly from each other in biology and behaviour. Basically, what you say is almost certainly correct for baleen whales, which are plankton eaters, but toothed whales, especially Orcas and Sperm whales are active hunters, and there is evidence in both species of aggressive behaviour towards humans. However, whether it is common enough to pose a realistic concern is another matter.

Unprovoked aggressive behaviour is probably unproven and unprovable; how do we know a whale's motivations? What we see as unprovoked could well, from the whale's POV, be provoked. Utrasonics don't bother us; we can't hear it. But from a whale's perspective, it could represent a serious assault. There are plenty of accounts of whales reacting to people switching echo-sounders on or off.

There are ample accounts of Orcas acting aggressively towards humans; we are about the same size and shape as their main prey (seals), so it isn't that surprising. For examples, I can think of several accounts from early polar explorers, when they encountered Orcas during travel over pack ice They are smart enough and capable enough to attack prey out of the water, so a person on a yacht might just make a tempting mouthful! And they are also known to attack the great whales in packs, so it isn't that big an extrapolation to consider that they would also attack yachts.

Sperm whales certainly act aggressively if they believe they are being attacked; plenty of accounts from the days of whaling under sail (see the sinking of the Essex, for one).

It would probably be a very easy secondary school project to gather accounts; what I have mentioned here is from casual reading, although I do know more about Orcas than most people, from contact with scientists working on their biology.

However, I agree that it probably isn't a realistic concern for yachts; we don't go out of our way to attack whales (though see above concerning sensitivity to noise), and Sperm whales are unlikely to attack us unless they are provoked. I would be concerned if there was a school of Orcas paying attention to my boat, though.

 

[Ariadne]

Thanks for the info - I'll certainly get the kids onto it. Sounds like a very good boat school project.

 

[KellysEye]

>I mean Whales are not aggressive unless they have calves with them. Curious & clumsy maybe, but aggressive they ain't.

A whale attacked a yacht and dismasted it off the Australian Barrier reef, the yacht had got between the whale and the calf. Yachts have been attacked by killer whales off the east African coast and it was a no go area for some time in the middle 2,000s. I dont know if it still happening.

It's possibly an old wives tale but whales are white underneath and killer whales attack from underneath. It was published somewhere not to use white antifouling.

 

[Ariadne]

>I mean Whales are not aggressive unless they have calves with them. Curious & clumsy maybe, but aggressive they ain't.

A whale attacked a yacht and dismasted it off the Australian Barrier reef, the yacht had got between the whale and the calf. Yachts have been attacked by killer whales off the east African coast and it was a no go area for some time in the middle 2,000s. I dont know if it still happening.

It's possibly an old wives tale but whales are white underneath and killer whales attack from underneath. It was published somewhere not to use white antifouling.

'The yacht had got between the whale and the calf.' If somebody got between your Mrs and children would she just stand there and watch then, or would she OK to do something about it? I think your missing the point on this bit!

Lets have the info on Orca attacks in SA then - facts not hearsay?

I'm more than willing to alter my opinions but as I'm going to use this for a school project now I need the facts.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

'The yacht had got between the whale and the calf.' If somebody got between your Mrs and children would she just stand there and watch then, or would she OK to do something about it? I think your missing the point on this bit!

Lets have the info on Orca attacks in SA then - facts not hearsay?

I'm more than willing to alter my opinions but as I'm going to use this for a school project now I need the facts.

A quick Google search gave several long lists of incidents involving captive Orcas, and a few involving wild ones. Similar Google searches ("yacht orca attack") bring up lots of hits; this is near the top, and looks pretty reliable. There are lots of other accounts, though - plenty to keep your class busy!

Basically it seems pretty well documented that Orcas do attack yachts on occasion.

It has always struck me that the statement that "Dolphins have never been known to harm people" is a) untrue - Orcas are dolphins and b) merely suggests they are smart enough not to get caught! And we shouldn't forget that we are talking about a group of animals reckoned to be up there with the great apes in the intelligence stakes.

 

[AndrewB]

I was a bit nervous when I anchored in a remote bay to realise that a mother and calf Humpback were using it as a nursery. They swam round and round us all afternoon, gradually getting closer until finally they were diving right under us.

Towards sunset they started jumping. The mother which was perhaps 20m long and probably weighed most of 50 tons, jumped well clear of the water three times, each time closer to us. The third time she jumped straight at us, close enough that we ducked. I think we were being given warning.

It wasn't very different from the recent incident of a Humpback doing the same thing to a fishing boat in this video here. Unlike me, the crew had the wits to keep shooting! There was also a case a year or so back in South Africa where a Right Whale jumped right onto a yacht, pulverising both yacht and whale. (Again, there is a spectacular video on YouTube). I suspect that time the whale misjudged it.

Whales are too intelligent to mistake yachts for prey.

 

[KellysEye]

>'The yacht had got between the whale and the calf.' If somebody got between your Mrs and children would she just stand there and watch then, or would she OK to do something about it? I think your missing the point on this bit!

You are assuming two things, the skipper saw the young one and the skipper had time to turn to avoid going between it and it's mother.

>Lets have the info on Orca attacks in SA then - facts not hearsay?

Not SA the attacks were outside a river mouth, which mainly French yachts entered, NE of the Canaries. If you were intending to cross the Atlantic in 2004/5 then there were warnings not to go into that area.

Antartic Pilot gave a URL for an attack on an Italian boat off the coast of Brazil. There is also a famous book by Maurice and Maralyn Bailey a British couple who, in 1973, survived for 117 days on a rubber raft in the Pacific Ocean before being rescued, having been hit by a whale off the west coast of S America.

I suggest you look these things up.

 

[Ariadne]

I have, read my posts, I'm not disputing them, just looking for the facts. If my kids are going to run with this for a school project then I need pointing in the right direction, as it is a fascinating subject to work with.

I still think you are more likely to sink by hitting a floating tree or another semi submerged object than by whale attack though. But I promise to be alert to toothed whales and Orcas though!

 

[AndrewB]

I think you are right to be sceptical. We've seen so many whales over the years and they've always seemed cautious rather than aggressive. Nor do I think it all that likely to hit a sleeping whale - whales are believed not to sleep deeply.

I'd only credit a whale attack if the whale was actually seen, well enough to make at least a rough identification of its species. It's a long time since I read 117 days adrift, did the Baileys' claim to have seen their attacker?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I think you are right to be sceptical. We've seen so many whales over the years and they've always seemed cautious rather than aggressive. Nor do I think it all that likely to hit a sleeping whale - whales are believed not to sleep deeply.

I'd only credit a whale attack if the whale was actually seen, well enough to make at least a rough identification of its species. It's a long time since I read 117 days adrift, did the Baileys' claim to have seen their attacker?

See my posts for verified cases of whales attackong ships and yachts.

 

[KellysEye]

>I have, read my posts, I'm not disputing them, just looking for the facts. If my kids are going to run with this for a school project then I need pointing in the right direction, as it is a fascinating subject to work with.

If you want lots of facts for the kids look here: http://archive.iwcoffice.org/_documents/commission/Ship strikes/11 Lonsdale.pdf

It starts with close encounters and then moves on to yachts colliding with whales and being hit too. One point it makes is you have no chance of spottig them at night.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

>I have, read my posts, I'm not disputing them, just looking for the facts. If my kids are going to run with this for a school project then I need pointing in the right direction, as it is a fascinating subject to work with.

If you want lots of facts for the kids look here: http://archive.iwcoffice.org/_documents/commission/Ship strikes/11 Lonsdale.pdf

It starts with close encounters and then moves on to yachts colliding with whales and being hit too. One point it makes is you have no chance of spottig them at night.

An excellent resource; I should have suggested looking at the IWC's archives, as a former Secretary of the IWC is a friend!

Note that it is not comprehensive, and other known incidents are not reported here. It also seems to confine itself to the great whales.

I must admit that I am surprised there are so many incidents to report!

 

[AndrewB]

See my posts for verified cases of whales attackong ships and yachts.

Thanks. Quite obviously there are real cases of yachts being damaged or sunk by whales. However, to my mind there are not really a great many cases over the 40 or so years that yachts have been reporting. And I remain sceptical that whales were really the cause in every incident where they have been blamed, particularly when the outcome was a broken rudder.

Incidentally, we have several times seen whales at night. The sound of their blowing is the first giveaway - somehow it seems louder at night. Bright moonlight or a good searchlight will then show them up. SWMBO once claimed she could see bioluminescent spray from a blow.

 

[pentagram]

Was this deliberate ?

Yes, it was!

 

[pentagram]

Why are you worried about being 'attacked' by a whale? I mean Whales are not aggressive unless they have calves with them. Curious & clumsy maybe, but aggressive they ain't.

We've had Brydes whale surface alongside (I mean touching distance away!) for a look, 4 Sie whales pass pass just clear of the keel, a family group of Pilot whales with calves come to the boat for look. Never once did we feel threatened by these fantastic mammals. Our anti-foul has been white, black and now red. I don't think it makes any difference.

I'd be more worried about trees and big sheets of plastic floating around the ocean and coastal waters. I've hit a few trees at night and in poor vis!

Hi Ariande. I'm not worried so much of being "attacked", more of being clouted by mistake.

 

[pentagram]

Hi Ariande. I'm not worried so much of being "attacked", more of being clouted by mistake.

That was a joke before anyone asks! Thanks for everones input. Very informative & a great link from KellysEye. Thanks

 

[KellysEye]

> Very informative & a great link from KellysEye.

Thank you.