Avoid creating risk of collision

[Roberto]

Hello,
a Colregs question
Is there any provision in the Colregs (or court cases/interpretation) for a vessel not to create risk of collision? Specifically risk of collision, not close quarter situation of course.
Example: two motor vessels and a crossing situation develops, given their respective speed/courses one will pass well in front of the other so no risk of collision, no action taken by either one.
What if one of the vessels suddenly stops exactly in front of the other one, thus creating a risk of collision? Say it anchors and puts the anchor ball at a dangerous distance from the approaching other vessel.
Is there any provision that could prevent him to do so?

 

[johnalison]

I don’t know about the rules, but if there is one it would be the thin end of the wedge and make it impossible for a sailing boat to tack anywhere that boats under power were about.

 

[ColleyV8]

I would presume rule 5, look out to prevent risk of collision, or rule 9, not to anchor in narrow channel

There's also one for a give way vessel cannot make itself a stand on via vessel movement but can't remember that

 

[capnsensible]

Hello,
a Colregs question
Is there any provision in the Colregs (or court cases/interpretation) for a vessel not to create risk of collision? Specifically risk of collision, not close quarter situation of course.
Example: two motor vessels and a crossing situation develops, given their respective speed/courses one will pass well in front of the other so no risk of collision, no action taken by either one.
What if one of the vessels suddenly stops exactly in front of the other one, thus creating a risk of collision? Say it anchors and puts the anchor ball at a dangerous distance from the approaching other vessel.
Is there any provision that could prevent him to do so?

I.R.P.C.S.

Avalook at Rule 17 and pass the popcorn.

 

[Stemar]

I don't know about a rule - the Colregs are about when there is a risk of collision, but "due regard to the observance of good seamanship" seems to me to avoid a situation where a risk of collision may occur.

I try to apply the same rules as I do when driving - Be predictable, Be considerate. Which includes applying the rules when appropriate.

 

[newtothis]

Life would be so much easier if they had introduced a requirement for indicators and brake lights.

 

[The Q]

Life would be so much easier if they had introduced a requirement for indicators and brake lights.

You'd soon find out who were BMW drivers...

 

[penberth3]

I don't know about a rule - the Colregs are about when there is a risk of collision, but "due regard to the observance of good seamanship" seems to me to avoid a situation where a risk of collision may occur.

I try to apply the same rules as I do when driving - Be predictable, Be considerate. Which includes applying the rules when appropriate.

Agreed. Situational awareness, "read the road".

 

[newtothis]

Agreed. Situational awareness, "read the road".

The hard bit, I find, is when trying to get into an Ionian anchorage at rush hour while trying to sort out the boat short handed and find a spot to drop and watch out for what everyone else is doing and try to remember who was on port and now they've spun around to starboard and ooops, better slow down quick but there's a boat up my stern and Italians have never read the colregs...

 

[KevinV]

The hard bit, I find, is when trying to get into an Ionian anchorage at rush hour while trying to sort out the boat short handed and find a spot to drop and watch out for what everyone else is doing and try to remember who was on port and now they've spun around to starboard and ooops, better slow down quick but there's a boat up my stern and Italians have never read the colregs...

Ah, that falls under rule 1: the cheapest, roughest boat has priority

 

[john_morris_uk]

I’m not too sure about some suggestions. IIRC:

1. IRPCS applies to vessels in sight of each other…

2. Unless it’s foggy etc in which case IRPCS still apply using relevant rules as detailed.

 

[Greg2]

I was sailing with a group on a 75 foot yacht in the Solent at the weekend (great sail with 30 knot winds on Sunday) and it surprised me that several yachts apparently weren’t familiar with, or ignored, the rules. We were stand on vessel on several occasions and when it became apparent that the other vessel wasn’t going to change course we did so.

To be fair, when I was on the helm on a stbd tack and it became apparent that a yacht on a port tack wasn’t going to alter course I only had to make a relatively course alteration to pass astern so I did so. They gave a wave to acknowledge what we had done but I don’t know if they knew the rules and just hoped we would make a minor deviation to avoid them having to out a tack in or whether they just had no idea and hoped we would do something.
.

 

[Sandy]

Hello,
a Colregs question
Is there any provision in the Colregs (or court cases/interpretation) for a vessel not to create risk of collision? Specifically risk of collision, not close quarter situation of course.
Example: two motor vessels and a crossing situation develops, given their respective speed/courses one will pass well in front of the other so no risk of collision, no action taken by either one.
What if one of the vessels suddenly stops exactly in front of the other one, thus creating a risk of collision? Say it anchors and puts the anchor ball at a dangerous distance from the approaching other vessel.
Is there any provision that could prevent him to do so?

After muttering quietly under my breath 'eejit', clearly this is in an area where there is a possibility of anchoring and not in the middle of the ocean, so is one thing I would be looking out for. Our American friends call it 'situational awareness'.

I have yet to see any vessel come to a sudden stop and drop an anchor. Usually the boat slows, weaves about a bit, looks at the waves then the wind, and considers the distance to the pub before launching their anchor of choice, despite what that chap in Canada says, into the oggin.

I anchored in Osbourne Bay last week with about 20 dinghies all doing their best to give their crews a wet bum. As soon as the anchor hit the sea bed up went the anchor ball. All of the boats underway immediately knew what I had done and altered course so not to collide with me or each other.

 

[Roberto]

They gave a wave to acknowledge what we had done
.

For leisure sailing, in my point of view that changes things a lot .
We are there to have fun: if I see someone racing, or someone trailing a couple of fishing lines, I do not mind changing course even if I am stand on. If they wave their hands it is nice.
If a give-way racing boat keeps course/speed while shouting "we re racing" or a sailboat with fishing lines makes rough gestures as I cross their stern, that makes everything a lot more unpleasant.

 

[Greg2]

For leisure sailing, in my point of view that changes things a lot .
We are there to have fun: if I see someone racing, or someone trailing a couple of fishing lines, I do not mind changing course even if I am stand on. If they wave their hands it is nice.
If a give-way racing boat keeps course/speed while shouting "we re racing" or a sailboat with fishing lines makes rough gestures as I cross their stern, that makes everything a lot more unpleasant.

I tend to agree - when we had our day sailer last season I would often tack when I was stand on vessel to let vessels, often mobos in a channel, keep going without altering course or speed. I figured we were just sailing for fun and it was easier for us to change course. I have to be honest and say that it doesn‘t tend to happen very often when I am at the helm of our mobo though.
.

 

[Roberto]

I have yet to see any vessel come to a sudden stop and drop an anchor.

Here it happens with diving boats, it happened to me in a couple of occurrences.
While under engine+pilot, rainy day most spent behind the sprayhood, I saw one diving boat coming at about 90° with good speed, the speed was such as to not imply risk of collision, so I kept going. Then, my mistake ex Rule 5, I heard a voice oh-ho while I was passing at a few dozen meters from them; they had stopped and anchored exactly in front of me. Plus they had diving flags which under local rules have even more stringent privileges.

Another case. Under engine in a channel (not narrow, plenty of space to turn right or left), a crossing sailboat. I change course to let him pass. She sails through, after a few meters they tack and here we go again, I am give way again and have to maneuver. Depending on my speed and the sailboat VMG this can continue for quite a long time, the sailboat knowing that every time they tack there will be risk of collision and they are stand on (those having made a bit of engine progress inside the gulf of morbihan would recognize )
From the answers so far, I reckon one should be ready to alter course port/starboard every 5 minutes depending on the tacking habit of some sailboat.

 

[B27]

Here it happens with diving boats, it happened to me in a couple of occurrences.
While under engine+pilot, rainy day most spent behind the sprayhood, I saw one diving boat coming at about 90° with good speed, the speed was such as to not imply risk of collision, so I kept going. Then, my mistake ex Rule 5, I heard a voice oh-ho while I was passing at a few dozen meters from them; they had stopped and anchored exactly in front of me. Plus they had diving flags which under local rules have even more stringent privileges.

Another case. Under engine in a channel (not narrow, plenty of space to turn right or left), a crossing sailboat. I change course to let him pass. She sails through, after a few meters they tack and here we go again, I am give way again and have to maneuver. Depending on my speed and the sailboat VMG this can continue for quite a long time, the sailboat knowing that every time they tack they are stand on (those having made a bit of engine progress inside the gulf of morbihan would recognize )
From the answers so far, I reckon one should be ready to alter course port/starboard every 5 minutes depending on the tacking habit of some sailboat.

A competent seaman would understand the tacking habits of a sailing boat.

I don't claim to be an expert on the rules, particularly as interpreted by the high priests of the IMO or whatever, but AFAIK, 'standing on' does not mean holding your course into the rocks, it can mean 'following the channel' or 'doing what the wind requires'.

In the same way that kids in the park don't fully understand the offside rule, everyday life in your average fishing port may differ from the letter of the law. I quite often tack my dinghy into a narrow river with commercial traffic.
Sometimes I do a slow tack to let boats past, coast head to wind at the edge and wave them by. Equally they will understand when we are struggling against the tide and give us the space we need.

 

[Kettlewell]

My rule of thumb is to try and stay out of the way of everybody, whether or not I technically have the right of way. For one thing you can't assume the other person knows the rules of the road or will adhere to them, or if they even see you. Whenever possible I will not travel in marked channels unless necessary with my draft. Here in New England you will encounter fishing vessels of all sizes, sport and commercial, that will ignore every rule, keep no watch, and couldn't care less about you. I have had them repeatedely block me when I was under sail by moving and dropping lines, with the excuse they are fishing I suppose. One time a small open boat just dropped his anchor in the middle of the Miami shipping channel. The Pilot Boat asked me to go over and tell the guy to get out of there, but he refused to move, forcing a cruise ship to squeeze around him.

 

[LittleSister]

Is there any provision in the Colregs (or court cases/interpretation) for a vessel not to create risk of collision? Specifically risk of collision, not close quarter situation of course.

isn't it all covered in Rule 2, as follows?

Rule 2
Responsibility
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

 

[MADRIGAL]

I would presume rule 5, look out to prevent risk of collision, or rule 9, not to anchor in narrow channel

There's also one for a give way vessel cannot make itself a stand on via vessel movement but can't remember that

Rule 13 (overtaking vessel): "Any subsequent alteration of bearing shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these rules."
And as Little Sister and Capnsensible say, Rules 2 ("ordinary practice of seamen") and Rule 17 (Action by stand-on vessel).