Autoterm vs Eberbasto

[Phil_boat]

I selected an upgraded controller which is very effective in preventing undesirable temperature hysteresis. It works by effectively throttling the heater to a reduced output once the set temperature has been achieved. All in all, very satisfactory.

Tbh I was surprised they don’t all work like this now, my Eber with 801 controller did this. It never fully switched off, it would run at a barely on speed with the burner still going which means it didn’t need to go through the start / shutdown. AFAIK the Autoterm can be switched between different modes.

Don't know what you've got against "Chinese" heaters.

Nothing particularly, but I’d rather not use one in my boat.

Conversely to the other poster above, I found all the accessories supplied with it were pure junk and ended up replacing them all.

I’ve seen this comment before so I’ll check out everything and replace if needed. I’ve still got quite a few Eber bits kicking about in the garage so might have some of what I’d need anyway.

If I remember correctly the sooting problem is caused by not running the heater hot enough.
One of the causes was I think the the heater was to powerful as in an 8kw when a 2kw would be a better choice.

Yeah that’s right, I wondered if the Autoterm is more susceptible to it though. That and the initial priming of the fuel appear to be the biggest complaints about them.

I’d run the 2kW I think. It’s only a 7m Merry Fisher so it’s not a massive space to heat.

You asked if there are any others, so I’ll throw MV Heating into the mix.

Sailboat and Motorboat Heaters

I have an MV Hydro 9 which I’ve been using for three and a half years and up to now I’ve been very happy with it.

I’ll check that out cheers, MV Airo rings a bell but I’d forgotten about them.

Skipper next door to me has just spent £1200** on a brand new replacement D5 Eberspacher for his boat, old one is still working perfectly but changed " just in case."
Refused to consider anything else.

Can I have his old one?

 

[LittleSister]

I am in the process of fitting a 2kW Autoterm (the artist formerly known as Planar) to replace an ancient 3kW Eberspacher (see my ad on the For Sale page if you want a negligible cost Eber kit or parts from it). My Autoterm heater itself is Latvian (EU) made, but I think some of the other bits of my installation kit were Russian made (I bought the kit several years ago, so that might just be old stock and it may be all Latvian now).

I bought it in preference to Eber/Webasto because of the massive price difference, and in preference to the Chinese ones, because
- there are Chinese companies very capable of producing excellent quality engineering, but most of what we receive from there is of very shoddy quality, and the price suggests that it would be the latter;
- the heaters were advertised without even basic dimensions, let alone detailed specs and installation instructions, and no support;
- there was apparently no comeback if you were dissatisfied with what you received;
- people described ordering a 2 or 3kW (?) heater and getting a 5kW (or even 8kW?) heater, which I might not have enough space for and/or might not run my modest heat needs efficiently; and especially
- people were asking on here very basic information about installation and operation that should, for safety and for convenience, be provided with with the heater. It is said you can find all the info you need by asking on Facebook, which is only alright if you like that sort of thing (I don't), and trust complete strangers' opinions (at least on YBW I've had time to evaluate different forumites' knowledge and opinions in different fields.
Those are my opinions, and I'm not trying to persuade anyone for or against any choice they might make.

I have not yet completed my installation so can't comment on how it runs. The only 'problems' I've had with the installation so far are related to the boat itself and connecting to the parts of old system (ducting etc.) I'm retaining, and not to the heater or kit itself.

I have overall been impressed by the detailed installation etc. instructions provided with the heater (which are also all online at Autoterm), with the range of support available, and I haven't (yet?) any criticisms of the quality off the parts (other than how small the 'de-luxe' controller is), which are some ways better than the Eber, though that is from an earlier era. There is one area of the instructions that could be clearer and took a bit of close study to understand, though all the information is actually in there.

I was uncertain about just one thing - the instructions didn't specify which way round the pair of wires to the fuel pump were to be inserted into a connector (almost all other connections can't be made wrongly because they're pre-wired and the different types and 'handing' of the connectors govern it). I suspected this probably meant that the 'polarity' didn't matter, but I thought I'd better check and emailed my query, thinking I'd get on with another job for the rest of the day. I had a reply confirming my guess was correct within 2 minutes!

 

[PaulRainbow]

I fitted an Autoterm from www.autoterm.store

The actual heater itself is good, I would buy it again.

Conversely to the other poster above, I found all the accessories supplied with it were pure junk and ended up replacing them all.

I've fitted several of the Autoterm heaters, i haven't found that to be the case.

- the jubilee clips supplied with the kit were all zinc plated rather than stainless steel as in the eber kits

Agree, i bin them and use stainless fuel pipe clips, not Jubilee style ones.

- the exhaust pipe / silencer supplied is junk

Definitely not the case with the ones i've had, i've used the stainless exhaust pipe and separate silencer, never had a problem and some of my installations must be about 8 years old.

- the 'upgraded' boat exhaust they supply is also nasty compared to the proper eber one

Never used one of those, see above.

- the fuel pipe they supply is nasty plastic stuff compared to the proper rubber fuel hoses supplied in the marine eber kits

Nothing wrong with the clear plastic stuff they supply, looks identical to the stuff on my Webasto.

- the fuel tank pickup is crappy, zinc plated and doesn't have a cutoff valve on it

Agree here too, except the one you link below also doesn't have a cutoff valve.

Maybe I am just fussy, but it all went in the bin and I bought the proper stuff from Mellor. if I bought it again I'd just buy the cheapest kit from Autoterm and source all the other stuff separately.

Proper exhaust https://www.melloronline.co.uk/Heater_Installation_Accessories_/10691/Eberspacher Marine Exhaust System 2m with Integrated Silencer 24mm ID.html

Proper fuel pipes https://www.melloronline.co.uk/Heater_Installation_Accessories_/10168/Eberspacher Marine ISO7840 Fuel Pipe Kit 6 Meters.html

Proper fuel pickup https://www.melloronline.co.uk/Heater_Installation_Accessories_/908/Webasto/Eberspacher Marine Fuel Standpipe 600mm.html

It is worth noting, for those replacing Webasto or Eber heaters, none of those parts are needed, so just buy the basic heater kit. I'd also fit the digital timer.

 

[vyv_cox]

I am in the process of fitting a 2kW Autoterm (the artist formerly known as Planar) to replace an ancient 3kW Eberspacher (see my ad on the For Sale page if you want a negligible cost Eber kit or parts from it). My Autoterm heater itself is Latvian (EU) made, but I think some of the other bits of my installation kit were Russian made (I bought the kit several years ago, so that might just be old stock and it may be all Latvian now).

There has been no Russian content for several years now. The owners are actually Ukrainian, giving them extra incentive to apply the sanctions.

The Planar name was not registered initially, allowing Chinese suppliers to use the word in their eBay listings. Autoterm is a fully registered name, preventing this abuse.

 

[AlanBr]

For those with the Autoterm.

I have a very old Eberspacher in my 32 foot yacht, with a single outlet in the saloon.

I’d like to replace the heater unit but keep as much of my existing pipe work etc as possible. It’s fuelled from the main diesel tank.

What do I need?
Heater, controller and fuel pump?

Also, given the comments about heaters being run too low and sooting up, should I go for a 2kw model over 4kw?

I replaced a (Very) old Eber on my boat with a Chinese lookalike; it couldn't have been simpler, and I'm delighted with the results, as it's my bank manager.

I reused all of the ducting, fuel pump and pipework, exhaust and even the heater mounting bracket (the latter with a bit of brute force). Almost everything was an exact fit.
The power supply/control that came with the new unit replaced the old installation
Only the outlet diameter of the heater duct needed a reducer.

In the process, I added an inlet air duct from the cabin; so now it's sucking in previously-warmed air. Obviously I can control ventilation separately.

If it all goes the same way as the old Eber, at least it will only cost me £70 and 30 minutes of my time. But so far, it's quiet, efficient and reliable

 

[vyv_cox]

I fitted an Autoterm from www.autoterm.store

The actual heater itself is good, I would buy it again.

Conversely to the other poster above, I found all the accessories supplied with it were pure junk and ended up replacing them all.

- the jubilee clips supplied with the kit were all zinc plated rather than stainless steel as in the eber kits
- the exhaust pipe / silencer supplied is junk
- the 'upgraded' boat exhaust they supply is also nasty compared to the proper eber one
- the fuel pipe they supply is nasty plastic stuff compared to the proper rubber fuel hoses supplied in the marine eber kits
- the fuel tank pickup is crappy, zinc plated and doesn't have a cutoff valve on it

Maybe I am just fussy, but it all went in the bin and I bought the proper stuff from Mellor. if I bought it again I'd just buy the cheapest kit from Autoterm and source all the other stuff separately.

Proper exhaust https://www.melloronline.co.uk/Heater_Installation_Accessories_/10691/Eberspacher Marine Exhaust System 2m with Integrated Silencer 24mm ID.html

Proper fuel pipes https://www.melloronline.co.uk/Heater_Installation_Accessories_/10168/Eberspacher Marine ISO7840 Fuel Pipe Kit 6 Meters.html

Proper fuel pickup https://www.melloronline.co.uk/Heater_Installation_Accessories_/908/Webasto/Eberspacher Marine Fuel Standpipe 600mm.html

Comments from Owen:

The guy with the fuel pipe complaints clearly didn’t order the marine fuel kit which comes with copper pipe, iso 7840 fuel hose joints and stainless P clips, screws and hose clips. It also comes with a fuel shut off valve to comply with inland waterways inspections and also the recreational craft directive.

The marine exhaust silencers come from the same manufacturers who make the eberspacher marine silencer. The exception is ours do not come with the duct sealed onto the pipe because we found people snapped the stainless pipe inside the duct and had fumes issues which could not be seen or inspected so we supply the ducting to cover it separately.

 

[Phil_boat]

see my ad on the For Sale page if you want a negligible cost Eber kit or parts from i

Where’s the for sale page? I didn’t think there was one on here?

 

[Phil_boat]

And while there’s heater chat going on…

2 or 4 kw? I thought 2 but not sure if it’ll be enough for winter use and windscreen clearing.

I’m thinking one vent in front cabin / v berth, one in the main wheelhouse and one for screen clearing.

The boat probably won’t get used all that much in the winter & likely not overnight but we get some stunning calm winter days occasionally.

It’s just a little 7m Merry Fisher

 

[LittleSister]

Where’s the for sale page? I didn’t think there was one on here?

Got to the 'Forums' list at the top of the page, and keep scrolling down the list until you find it.

Or just follow this link - https://forums.ybw.com/forums/for-sale.18/

Note that it's 'only available to long term, regular contributors to the wider YBW forum', so being able to see it might require one having posted a certain number of posts, or certain time period of being registered.

 

[Phil_boat]

Got to the 'Forums' list at the top of the page, and keep scrolling down the list until you find it.

Or just follow this link - https://forums.ybw.com/forums/for-sale.18/

Note that it's 'only available to long term, regular contributors to the wider YBW forum', so being able to see it might require one having posted a certain number of posts, or certain time period of being registered.

Ah I guess I’m too new then!

I looked a while ago and couldn’t find one, so assumed it didn’t exist.

I wonder when I’ll get access, I’m after a new plotter

 

[LittleSister]

Ah I guess I’m too new then!

I looked a while ago and couldn’t find one, so assumed it didn’t exist.

I wonder when I’ll get access, I’m after a new plotter

I don't know what the criteria now are, and doubt that it's made public. I suspect access has been limited after abuse of the facility by a few people. If you happen to view stuff on YBW by clicking 'New Posts' you get recent posts from any forum, and once you qualify you will soon see something from For Sale appearing somewhere in your New Posts list, which could save keep going back specifically to the For Sale forum to see if you're yet admitted.

In case you don't know it's limited to stuff up to £500 (recently increased from £400) only.

I've just had a quick look and couldn't see any plotters for sale on there in recent weeks. It's also not the type of thing one frequently sees there.

Note that there's also a 'Wanted' forum, complementary to the 'For Sale' one and again limited to stuff up to £500, where you could post what you are looking for. That 'Wanted' section might or might not have access similarly limited. Again that's in the list you see if you click 'Forums' in the top menu bar (albeit quite a long way down that list), or here's a link https://forums.ybw.com/forums/wanted.19/

 

[PaulRainbow]

And while there’s heater chat going on…

2 or 4 kw? I thought 2 but not sure if it’ll be enough for winter use and windscreen clearing.

I’m thinking one vent in front cabin / v berth, one in the main wheelhouse and one for screen clearing.

The boat probably won’t get used all that much in the winter & likely not overnight but we get some stunning calm winter days occasionally.

It’s just a little 7m Merry Fisher

View attachment 200478

Unless you're in Siberia, 2Kw.

 

[Laminar Flow]

After a few relatively trouble free years previously, our Webasto Airtop 3900 finally packed it in up in Shetland and this after a few rather expensive resuscitation attempts. A serviceman who was kindly advising us online, point blankly told us that if there were more than two issues, in particular with something like the fan motor, it would be cheaper to buy a whole new unit.

As the weather up North was absolutely atrocious and cold that year, we desperately needed a replacement. The current price for a Webasto at the Chandler around the corner is 2.800,- Euro. Add to this that Shetland, Orkney and Northern Scotland are apparently not part of the civilized world, it would not be possible to even get a unit delivered in anything short of 6 weeks, if at all.
The new Ebers now require the assistance of a PC to get them set up, which to my mind removes them from the reality of of any type of long distance cruising.
We were also not able to secure delivery of an Autotherm, which would have been my alternative of choice.

Alas, Amazon has no such scruples and was able to deliver a 5kw Chinese knock-off to the wilds of Scotland and within 5 days. To be clear, all the Chinese accessories are rubbish, but the unit dropped in to the Webasto holder without issue, all the screw holes lined up, exhaust, fuel line, and ducting hooked up without any problems. It took me all of 30 min to make the switch, at anchor up some soggy Scottish loch. The heater ran continuously and without fault, until we got back to Brittany and where it was finally switched off.

Now in our second year, it continues to give good service. In financial terms and compared to the price of a Web or Eber replacement, I consider us to be living rent free. By comparison, the Chinese one would only have to last not even a single year. What started as an emergency solution is proving to be working out just fine. We are now considering buying a second unit as a spare. Certainly, for the price of a single Webasto spare part I can get a whole new unit, delivered to the ends of the world if need be.

At this point, I struggle to comprehend the benefits offered by the upmarket brands. It certainly cannot be their service, nor the convenience of procurement they offer. For that kind of money, you'd think they'd be a bit more on top of things.

 

[Phil_boat]

In case you don't know it's limited to stuff up to £500 (recently increased from £400) only.

I've just had a quick look and couldn't see any plotters for sale on there in recent weeks. It's also not the type of thing one frequently sees there.

cheers, I’ll have a browse in there once it becomes available. Tbh plotters don’t seem to get moved on until they’re very outdated so I’ll have to keep an eye out in the sales.

 

[Phil_boat]

Unless you're in Siberia, 2Kw.

Not for now i won’t be

Depending on fitting location it may end up with quite long ducting so I’ll make sure I lag it well.

 

[paulbrown22]

After a few relatively trouble free years previously, our Webasto Airtop 3900 finally packed it in up in Shetland and this after a few rather expensive resuscitation attempts. A serviceman who was kindly advising us online, point blankly told us that if there were more than two issues, in particular with something like the fan motor, it would be cheaper to buy a whole new unit.

As the weather up North was absolutely atrocious and cold that year, we desperately needed a replacement. The current price for a Webasto at the Chandler around the corner is 2.800,- Euro. Add to this that Shetland, Orkney and Northern Scotland are apparently not part of the civilized world, it would not be possible to even get a unit delivered in anything short of 6 weeks, if at all.
The new Ebers now require the assistance of a PC to get them set up, which to my mind removes them from the reality of of any type of long distance cruising.
We were also not able to secure delivery of an Autotherm, which would have been my alternative of choice.

Alas, Amazon has no such scruples and was able to deliver a 5kw Chinese knock-off to the wilds of Scotland and within 5 days. To be clear, all the Chinese accessories are rubbish, but the unit dropped in to the Webasto holder without issue, all the screw holes lined up, exhaust, fuel line, and ducting hooked up without any problems. It took me all of 30 min to make the switch, at anchor up some soggy Scottish loch. The heater ran continuously and without fault, until we got back to Brittany and where it was finally switched off.

Now in our second year, it continues to give good service. In financial terms and compared to the price of a Web or Eber replacement, I consider us to be living rent free. By comparison, the Chinese one would only have to last not even a single year. What started as an emergency solution is proving to be working out just fine. We are now considering buying a second unit as a spare. Certainly, for the price of a single Webasto spare part I can get a whole new unit, delivered to the ends of the world if need be.

At this point, I struggle to comprehend the benefits offered by the upmarket brands. It certainly cannot be their service, nor the convenience of procurement they offer. For that kind of money, you'd think they'd be a bit more on top of things.

Snap, my new to me Saga 26HT came with a recently fitted Chinese heater, which I put on my inspection list as something to rip out and replace with a Planar/Autoterm. I haven't actually used it that much yet, but it works brilliantly whenever I (or the 5 year old...) fire it up. We were on the boat with friends the other weekend and I suddenly realised I'm sitting in a sauna, and the 5 year old and his friend had been playing with the heating control in the cabin! The control head is much better than our old Webasto ThermoTop C on the previous boat and even has a keychain remote control and a Bluetooth app interface (which I haven't bothered with yet). So based on experience so far I'm leaving it until it breaks, and will then possibly consider a brand upgrade.

 

[melvynpatrick]

I had an eberspacher 4d for years. It was though like triggers broom. Except way more expensive. On my new boat I fitted a Chinese heater but with a proper exhaust and copper fuel lines etc. it worked fine. It even spoke to me, wishing me a good journey when I turned it off. But I could never love it. It’s just me but I was always wary of it. There was nothing ]wrong with it. It worked. I was warm. But it niggled away at me. The wire was thin and felt cheap. To be fair. It was cheap so I couldn’t complain. But I never really trusted it which wasn’t fair on it, but couldn’t help myself. So I bought a couple of weeks ago, am Autoterm. Which I do love. Am I any warmer? Probably not. But I do feel safer. Totally illogical. But there it is.
Hope that helps

 

[oldgit]

I replaced 20+ years old Eber with a Chinese one, working well but I did buy a spare just in case. I agree they look the same as Eber but a very big difference in weight, indicating the casting is thinner

Don't know what you've got against "Chinese" heaters. I've stripped Eberspachers and cheapies and they are identical.

Err, identical ? No.
Have mentioned in previous posts that somebody actually involved with fitting Webaspachers did buy a couple of the alternative chinaspacher offerings with view to using parts from the cloned devices CE to replace the somewhat expensive replacement parts offered by Webaspacher.
According to him, most of the important internal bits likely to require replacement, were slightly different and were not interchangable.

 

[jamie N]

I replaced the Eber D5(?) with a Chinese item, and like many, had no real problems as it fitted well enough. The exhaust I renewed and lagged with exhaust wrap stuff, which was suitable from an auto factor, and all seemed well. However, after having not used it for a few months, when I fired up the heater, it came on without issue, but the cabin became 'smoky'. Obviously I shut it down, and thought the worst of it all, however the 'smoke' hadn't smelt of anything, and the air analyser in the cabin hadn't issued a warning, or indeed noted any significant change in the atosphere apart from it getting warmer; odd?
The 'smoke' was steam from the lagging, which had taken on the moisture during the period of inactivity, as well as being a known effect from exhaust wraps or lagging, which will often smoke and smell for the first few heat cycles as any manufacturing oils or residues burn off.
As a check though, I removed the lagging, and ran the heater 'naked' as it were, and saw that there weren't any defects, and so refitted the lagging knowing that it wasn't going to kill me.

 

[Phil_boat]

Going to go for an Autoterm then I think... I'll get it ordered and have a play around to find the best position for it.

Unfortunately the best position to get heat into the boat isn't the best for getting the exhaust out!

What's the usual way to run the air intake (NOT the combustion air) - take it from inside the cabin so it recirculates or from where the heater is located? Which on my boat is effectively the bilge, although it's a clean bilge being an outboard boat.