Autopilots and Rule 52

[dgadee]

I have just started racing again after quite a few years away - usually did it with up to 24 feet. I notice how few boats race now and how many of them do club racing single handed when crew aren't available. Yet - it was just pointed out to me - that Rule 52 precludes autopilots. Is that a rule from the days of big regattas and lots of crew wanting a racing berth and now needing revision in local racing?

"A boat’s standing rigging, running rigging, spars and movable hull appendages shall be adjusted and operated only by the power provided by the crew."

 

[Praxinoscope]

I don't think the tiller is classified as a 'moveable appendage' so the use of an 'autohelm' would imho be allowed, but there are I am sure there are more informed forumites on this than me.

 

[flaming]

I have just started racing again after quite a few years away - usually did it with up to 24 feet. I notice how few boats race now and how many of them do club racing single handed when crew aren't available. Yet - it was just pointed out to me - that Rule 52 precludes autopilots. Is that a rule from the days of big regattas and lots of crew wanting a racing berth and now needing revision in local racing?

"A boat’s standing rigging, running rigging, spars and movable hull appendages shall be adjusted and operated only by the power provided by the crew."

Depends on which rating rule you are racing under. IRC, for example, specifically changes rule 52 to allow autopilots. And electric winches, but they have to be declared on your rating.

There is absolutely nothing stopping a club from changing rule 52 in its NOR and SIs to suit how they want the racing to be run.

 

[dgadee]

I don't think the tiller is classified as a 'moveable appendage' so the use of an 'autohelm' would imho be allowed, but there are I am sure there are more informed forumites on this than me.

I think it's the rudder which is the moveable appendage.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I think it's the rudder which is the moveable appendage.

A real can of worms, is the rudder an appendage or an integral part of the hull?

 

[flaming]

A real can of worms, is the rudder an appendage or an integral part of the hull?

Rudder is the appendage. In its unmodified form rule 52 does indeed rule out autopilots.

And actually I got one thing wrong. IRC does rule out autopilots in its unmodified form.

15 MANUAL POWER
15.1 RRS 52, Manual Power, shall not apply. This Rule may be amended by Notice of Race.
15.2 (a) The use of stored power for the hoisting of mainsails, or the reefing or furling of sails need not be declared.
(b) Boats using stored power solely for the adjustment or operation of aft rigging shalldeclare this to the Rating Authority.
(c) Boats using stored power for the adjustment or operation of running rigging otherthan as noted in Rules 15.2(a) and (b) shall declare this to the Rating Authority.
(d) Boats shall not use stored power for steering unless specified by the Notice of Race.

So it's all in the NOR.

 

[dgadee]

Is there an advantage in an autopilot and one crew as against two (or more) crew? I wouldn't have thought so.

 

[Praxinoscope]

flaming, you are perfectly correct,

 

[flaming]

Is there an advantage in an autopilot and one crew as against two (or more) crew? I wouldn't have thought so.

Depends on the crew!

To be honest, at the level of racing where you're not stripping the boat, not bringing a full crew etc, the NOR should be written to encourage the maximum number of boats to race. If that means allowing autopilots then great. If it means banning them, then great. If it means writing an NOR that requires a minimum number of saucepans on board, then great.... Do whatever is going to grow participation. If some of those people then go on to have an interest in more serious racing, then double great.

Where the autopilot use is slightly more contentious is in longer offshore races. Specifically in the idea that a modern autopilot is better than a lot of helms on a dark night, especially over the course of a number of hours.

 

[B27]

Depends on the crew!

To be honest, at the level of racing where you're not stripping the boat, not bringing a full crew etc, the NOR should be written to encourage the maximum number of boats to race. If that means allowing autopilots then great. If it means banning them, then great. If it means writing an NOR that requires a minimum number of saucepans on board, then great.... Do whatever is going to grow participation. If some of those people then go on to have an interest in more serious racing, then double great.

Where the autopilot use is slightly more contentious is in longer offshore races. Specifically in the idea that a modern autopilot is better than a lot of helms on a dark night, especially over the course of a number of hours.

I'd be more concerned about the cost of 'performance' autopilots and also the idea that yachts might not fulfil their obligations to the rules of part 4 if there's nobody steering. It's all very well offshore when boats are spread out and there aren't boats from 3 other clubs racing on the same water.

 

[Ingwe]

I'd be more concerned about the cost of 'performance' autopilots and also the idea that yachts might not fulfil their obligations to the rules of part 4 if there's nobody steering. It's all very well offshore when boats are spread out and there aren't boats from 3 other clubs racing on the same water.

Even the current generation standard Raymarine Autopilots would be better than a lot of helms at night so we aren't just talking about the high end autopilot setups. As for not being able to steer when away from the helm pretty much anyone who is serious about doing short handed racing nowadays is going to have a remote control for their autopilot to put round their neck so they can steer perfectly well from the foredeck.

 

[dgadee]

Really, I was just talking about low level club racing. You've gone all high end.

 

[flaming]

Really, I was just talking about low level club racing. You've gone all high end.

You need to read the NOR to see if they are allowed in the races you want to enter.

 

[dgadee]

You need to read the NOR to see if they are allowed in the races you want to enter.

Not so far as I can see. They need a bit of persuasion to change the constraints.

 

[flaming]

To be honest, if you want to race singlehanded on a short course, getting a laser or something is probably the better bet... Singlehanded, or indeed doublehanded, racing in yachts is best done over longer distances. If you want to race your yacht over short courses there is no substitute for good crew.

 

[dunedin]

Not so far as I can see. They need a bit of persuasion to change the constraints.

Yes, that what I was going to suggest - propose to your club that they make a change to allow this to encourage participation. Can trial for a season and review afterwards.

 

[dgadee]

To be honest, if you want to race singlehanded on a short course, getting a laser or something is probably the better bet... Singlehanded, or indeed doublehanded, racing in yachts is best done over longer distances. If you want to race your yacht over short courses there is no substitute for good crew.

At the club I am with, there are frequently members who will sail a race solo. The boats are most certainly not up to date and certainly not race fitted out. No way are they going to get a laser (nor will I, at my age).

I agree short races around the buoys would be difficult but longer races where after the start the different boats string out and collisions are much less likely would be appropriate.

 

[dgadee]

Yes, that what I was going to suggest - propose to your club that they make a change to allow this to encourage participation. Can trial for a season and review afterwards.

Already raised as a suggestion.

 

[flaming]

I agree short races around the buoys would be difficult but longer races where after the start the different boats string out and collisions are much less likely would be appropriate.

Yes, this is what you should be pushing for.

But also be aware that singlehanded racing, especially if you don't have an autopilot remote etc, combined with fully crewed has the potential to be a bit fraught.

If you have enough interest in single handing, or doublehanding for that matter, at your club then suggest that a separate series might be good. You may even then get some of those who normally sail crewed to give it a go, and then everyone is on an equal footing.

 

[dgadee]

But also be aware that singlehanded racing, especially if you don't have an autopilot remote etc, combined with fully crewed has the potential to be a bit fraught.

If you have enough interest in single handing, or doublehanding for that matter, at your club then suggest that a separate series might be good. You may even then get some of those who normally sail crewed to give it a go, and then everyone is on an equal footing.

I think those who start solo usually hang back at the start. It's not Admiral's Cup stuff (though i think all of the boats are more than old enough for that).