Autopilot Recommendations?

[Dougal]

My Navico WP5000 has finally gone mad. Can't get it to hold any kind of course, on either sail or motor. Checked all connections and wiring but cant find any faults. It's only for a 32ft motor sailor, but the evasion32 has massive weather helm, a very poorly designed rudder, and a large prop. Hence it requires more than your average autopilot for a 32 footer.

The current setup has the WP5000 (belt driven) at the inside position, and a wired (HP5000) remote controller for use outside.

Anyone got any ideas what I'd need as a more up to date replacement, bearing in mind I have a very limited budget?

Ant input MUCH appreciated

Ta!

 

[wully1]

As a first stop I'd see if there is a local electronics guru who could have a look at it?

Failing that then as far as I'm aware your only choice is a Raymarine wheel pilot although personally I think they are a waste of money - better to bite the bullet and get a below decks system. ( at great expense )

( I think there is also some American made wheel pilot that gets good write ups but I don't know it's name - someone here will though..)

 

[tolhurstorganic]

You say you have "massive weather helm...Then it would really pay to sort that out first, the existing kit may have failed due to continuous overload. Reduced weather helm will reduce power needed and you may well get away with a smaller unit and use far less battery power. The boat will sail better too, so check out improving the sailing abilities first then deal with the autohelm may well prove more cost effective.
Good luck, I am sure this forum will provide heaps of advice on curing or reducing weather helm.

 

[Dougal]

Lookup the Evasion32 (the OLD one). There IS no cure;-)))) Same for motor.... Increase RPM to about 1800 and prepare to have the tiller knock you over;-)

 

[Tranona]

Afraid autopilots and limited budgets do not go together. The choice is the basic wheelpilot which sells for around £1k which will typically cope with up to 35' boat or 7000kg. However it is not a particularly robust unit and would probably have difficulty in coping with the lack of balance and high steering loads you describe.

An under deck pilot with a ram operating direct on the rudder quadrant is really the only choice if you want it to work in all conditions and within its capacity. Such an installation costs over £2.5k for the bits plus potentially significant work to install it.

 

[wully1]

Afraid autopilots and limited budgets do not go together. The choice is the basic wheelpilot which sells for around £1k which will typically cope with up to 35' boat or 7000kg. However it is not a particularly robust unit and would probably have difficulty in coping with the lack of balance and high steering loads you describe.

An under deck pilot with a ram operating direct on the rudder quadrant is really the only choice if you want it to work in all conditions and within its capacity. Such an installation costs over £2.5k for the bits plus potentially significant work to install it.

They are not difficult to install - I did it myself and the most difficult bit was drilling straight holes through the block of hardwood I mounted the boat side of the ram on... ( and that should tell you something about my competence .....)

 

[dom]

They are not difficult to install

Sometimes not, but the difficulty depends on what systems are already on the boat and how good one wants the pilot to be:

1. If one already has a set of say Raymarine or B&G instruments, then the work will be principally confined to attaching the drive unit, its dedicated power supply (quite large), fitting a rudder sensor and then hooking the pilot up to the existing network. This last bit can be tricky if a few software upgrades have been missed.

2. However, if the boat has an ad-hoc collection of instruments, one needs to go down the NMEA route to feed the AP parameters like speed, wind direction, compass heading, waypoint selection, etc. It is possible to run most APs by typing in a speed manually and forgetting about the wind instruments, but this of course hobbles much of its functionality.


Two final points:
(a) The boat in question has a lot of weather helm, which may not be fully solvable. This suggests that heel/boat motion will be important parameters for the AP to sense, which takes one towards a gyro unit ..but these are pretty pricey.

(b) Seek advice on the power of the ram drive required (a ram that is too week is useless and dangerous) and then check the steering system in detail to predetermine the amount of structural work required.

Good luck!

 

[Tranona]

They are not difficult to install - I did it myself and the most difficult bit was drilling straight holes through the block of hardwood I mounted the boat side of the ram on... ( and that should tell you something about my competence .....)

Yes, but often there is nowhere convenient to the fixed end of the ram so GRP work is necessary and you need to get a secure method of mounting the arm to the quadrant. So it can be straightforward if the builder was aware of the requirements or a PITA in some retrofits.

 

[Koeketiene]

The current setup has the WP5000 (belt driven) at the inside position, and a wired (HP5000) remote controller for use outside.

Anyone got any ideas what I'd need as a more up to date replacement, bearing in mind I have a very limited budget?

Ant input MUCH appreciated

Ta!

How essential is an autopilot to your current sailing?
If you can do without it for now, I would make do and save my pennies for a 'proper' under deck unit.
Had a Simrad WP on the previous boat, and it was an expensive POS. Never worked properly.
Bought the current under deck unit (second hand) on eBay for a fraction of what a new one would cost - only bought the ram new.
Installation included, it came to just a bit over £1.5K

 

[wully1]

Yes, but often there is nowhere convenient to the fixed end of the ram so GRP work is necessary and you need to get a secure method of mounting the arm to the quadrant. So it can be straightforward if the builder was aware of the requirements or a PITA in some retrofits.

Jeffa make a bolt on tiller arm.

 

[Tranona]

Jeffa make a bolt on tiller arm.

Yes, I know but that is not the only way of doing it. Much depends on the layout and type of quadrant on a 40 year old boat.

 

[Dougal]

Oh yikes! This is all beginning to sound scarily expensive A whole bunch of major stuff onboard, is all dying at the same bl00dy time. Engine & gearbox probs, fridge AND cooker are dying. Now the autopilot AND plotter have had their final sail:-(((

 

[Toutvabien]

Oh yikes! This is all beginning to sound scarily expensive A whole bunch of major stuff onboard, is all dying at the same bl00dy time. Engine & gearbox probs, fridge AND cooker are dying. Now the autopilot AND plotter have had their final sail:-(((

Good luck!
Just been through that, in the last year I have replaced, fridge, gas cooker, gas piping, gear box, solar panel, autopilot, engine fuel pump, engine water pump, cutlass bearing and sprayhood.

 

[pappaecho]

I had a E32 for 10 years. Only slight weather helm, due to slightly raked mainmast. Used a Raymarine St 2000 on the tiller, and the boat sailed or motored well with any combination of sails, except downwind, when it could bea bit erratic on a run. Dropped the 15 x15 prop for a smaller 12 x12 when fitted new Beta engine, which made the boat a bit easier to handle when mooring.
Perhaps the first thing to look at is the weather helm, before fitting a new autopilot

 

[wully1]

Yes, I know but that is not the only way of doing it. Much depends on the layout and type of quadrant on a 40 year old boat.

Why are you trying to make it sound difficult ? It might be, it might not. This is 'Practical Boat Owner'

The vast majority of jobs on a boat are well within the skills of the average boat owner..and they - in my experience- make a better job than the 'professionals'

 

[Tranona]

Why are you trying to make it sound difficult ? It might be, it might not. This is 'Practical Boat Owner'

The vast majority of jobs on a boat are well within the skills of the average boat owner..and they - in my experience- make a better job than the 'professionals'

Not trying to make it difficult - just that some boats can be difficult as there is nowhere to mount the end of the ram without bonding in a base and you need space on the stock to fit the arm or the right sort of quadrant if you are going to use that method. Old boats like this were designed long before autopilots were popular and as you say yourself it might or might not, so best to investigate beforehand in the knowledge of what is required and before spending over £2k on the bits.

 

[Quandary]

I'm with Wully, worth looking at the Jefa website, the technical info there is comprehensive and really well presented. They are a company with a lot of knowledge and happy to address problems in English with generous advice even if you are not buying one of their pilots. They have steering and rudder options for nearly every possible scenario and are nice guys to do business with but of course this type of stuff is not cheap. If you are ever bored it is worth a visit just to see how a well run marine company can operate.