Atlantic Crossing - First time

[snaps404]

Hey, I'm very new to sailing, the better half and myself want to live off the grid and explore the world so we have decided to dip our toes in and buy and boat, but, which boat.......

I don't what this to be a "my boat is best" thread but I've Googled "learner cruiser and Atlantic crossing cruisers" and also read threads with confusing results.

Some backgroud. I've sailed before but the better half has only stepped on a cruiser once. We will be taking courses to ensure we have at least some idea what to do and also spend quite a few months sailing around the Med before crossing the Atlantic but, the question still stands, which boat??

The Bavaria 42 has come up few times in Google searches but reading a few threads this doesn't seem to be the general consensus. I know they're mass produced, that in itself has pros and cons.

I've looked at a Contest 38s, Dufour 35 (recently viewed), Bav 42 & Rassy. Budget is circa £60k but would like to get a boat for around £50k and spend the remaining getting her ready.

So, what tips can any of you sailors give to try and point me the right direction. I also understand there is a perfect answer. I do like the spec of some of the second have Bav 42's, they have solor panels, bigger F/W tanks and some of the additionally bought nav equipment will certainly come in handy.
I was hoping to start around the Med next year but been told it'll take roughly 1 year to prep for the crossing of the pond.

 

[V1701]

Hi & welcome to the forum,

OK I'll start the ball rolling. I'd slow down a bit if I were you - do your RYA day skipper practical over the winter, this will get you an ICC (international certificate of competence) with which you can charter a boat in the med in the spring to find out whether your better half likes it or not. If your better half and yourself still like the idea after that start thinking about whether you want to buy a boat and what you might want to do with it. If that's crossing the Atlantic have a look at the ARC. Any of the boats that you've suggested would be capable if properly set up and equipped...

 

[Paulfireblade]

I bought my first boat this year and absolutely love it but I think you might be underestimating how much trouble an inexperienced sailor can get in to.

As said do Comp crew, Day Skipper and VHF but don’t rush it too much as so much to learn from the instructors who all do it for the love of sailing and then buy a boat but take it one stage at a time. Day Skipper is great experience but you really are at the bottom rung.

The above qualifications are all I have and I have just started venturing along the coast.

Make an Atlantic crossing your goal by all means but enjoy the journey and there are lots of interesting places to visit UK and Europe spend the time getting to know boats because in the middle of the Atlantic you are on your own just you and water as far as the eye can see.

Re boats, you need to try a 42 foot boat. As a boat gets bigger everything is heavier to operate and more expensive and also the trickiest bit is mooring and a longer boat is harder to manoeuvre, I would suggest nearer 34 foot for a first boat TBH.

 

[Ningaloo]

I second slowing down! I bought my 4th boat this year, took ownership in June and spent the summer getting to the Med. I'll spend a few seasons there before thinking about the Atlantic. I bought this 14m boat planning to sail to my home in western Australia, but there is so much to see on the way.
I'll be honest that I bought my last boat in 2015 explicitly to sail to the Med but then spend almost 4 years in the Baltic before eventually getting to the UK just before Covid, so maybe I'm on a slow track.
On the other hand my neighbour's sons bought an elderly Jeanneau last autumn, spent this summer fitting out (including new engine) and set off across Biscay a couple of weeks ago. They are now in Madeira and I'm pretty sure they will get across the Atlantic next month. [They are 30+ years younger than me!]

Please ensure your partner gets the experience and training they need otherwise you run the risk of sailing solo! This is a huge venture and you have much to learn.

I think that 10k is insufficient to prepare a boat for your plans unless you are able to find something already prepared for ocean passages and blue water crusing.
Think windvane self steering, power generation (lots of solar or watt&sea), watermaker, manageable downwind sails, not to mention all the safety equipment you will need.

I wish you luck, and hope, like me, you have fun sailing wherever you get to. Even if it isn't where you planned to be!

 

[Bajansailor]

And I third the above suggestions re 'slowing down'. Don't be in a rush to cross the Atlantic - there is so much that you can learn / do / see / experience first in Europe before venturing south.
And don't be too hasty about buying a boat - charter one first. Maybe even do a few charters, of different boats, in different locations.
There is no 'ideal' boat for crossing the Atlantic with - any well equipped and maintained yacht that is sailed by a reasonably experienced crew should have no difficulties in sailing across. Does not matter if she has a long or short keel, is heavy or light, is pretty or ugly.......
And you can be guaranteed that every poster above will have a different 'ideal' yacht for doing this passage in.

 

[MAURICE]

If you intend to live on the boat which it sounds that you are. I would suggest the bigger the better at least 40 foot. Id also go for something like a Moody large inside and heavy. My current boat which ive owned for 14 years now is indeed a Moody 44 ive been in some heavy weather with her which she takes in her stride. Id go for heavy displacement as its a more comfortable ride. So that really rules out the mass production boats. But as always money is the deciding factor. Also take it slow and you will learn so much more from experience.
Maurice

 

[Kelpie]

Choice of boat is inevitably something to get fixated on but at the end of the day it's not at important as you might think. An experienced and cautious sailor in a less-than-ideal boat stands a better chance than a newbie in the 'perfect' yacht.


RYA courses are good at teaching you things like COLREGs or course to steer. Not so good for learning how to change an impeller whilst hanging upside down over the engine working with one hand, unable to see what you're doing. There's no substitute for practical experience. Once you are a few miles offshore you have to be prepared to be self reliant. So I would agree with the comments about not rushing anything. Get a boat, get to know it, get used to fixing it when it breaks.

 

[Bobc]

First comment:- If you are going to live on the boat, then 95% of your time will be spent living on it, and not sailing it. So first and foremost, choose a boat that you are happy and comfortable living on (typically the bigger the better). Even when you are sailing, 90% of your sailing will be simple day passages. You will probably do one long passage a year at the most, so don't buy a heavy, hot, cramped boat just because it's being marketed as a "blue water" yacht.

Second comment:- Almost any boat 36ft and up is perfectly capable of crossing the Atlantic. Do not be put-off production boats. The build quality is perfectly satisfactory for cruising. Ignore the people stuck in the past who insist on long encapsulated keels and skeg-hung rudders.

Third comment:- as others have said, take your time to learn about sailing and to understand what you REALLY want/need before taking the plunge, as buying the wrong boat can cost you dear.

 

[Concerto]

snaps404 welcome to the forum.

Would you fly a light aircraft from the UK to Australia next summer? To be honest that would be easier to plan for and do, than sail the Atlantic. I started sailing in 1965 and at one time thought about doing a round the world trip, but I never found the time. Even after a lot of offshore racing I have encountered most of the problems sailors dread like a broken mast, snapped rudder, mast in the water, etc and survived. I now sail a 32ft Fulmar singlehanded and finally next year I am planning a complete round Britian via the Shetland. I hav been very capable for decades, but never found the time. Even now I am spending a lot of time and money specificly on preparation for this trip, this after an almost full renovation of my boat. Look at https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/3/3f/Concerto.pdf and Concerto at the Boat Show 2021

. The renovations over the past 8 years has cost just over £25,000 on top of the purchase price with a couple of thousand more still to spend.

With a budget of only £60,000, your dreams are possible. However £10,000 for preparation work on a 40ft yacht for an Atlantic crossing is far too small. You would need to find a boat that has most of the requirements for ocean sailing already fitted (already mentioned in post #4) and in full working order. It would mean buying a boat that is probably 30 to 40 years old and not in pristine condition. So what are your skills for working on a boat? Can you maintain an engine? What about stripping a loo because of a blockage? Not to mention sail repairs, rigging checks, electrical problems, etc. This should be part of your planning on top of the training for sailing a boat.

One other factor I doubt you have considered is insurance for the boat and personal health cover. If you want to keep in touch with friends and relatives, then check out the cost of communication equipment you just take for granted on land. All of this will eat into your budget.

Now the reality check. Have you been watching those YouTube videos of people who just upped sticks and went sailing? If so, then talk to some people who have done this life for real. There are a number of regular posters on the forum who have like geem, laminar flow, captnsensible, sailaboutvic, Banjansailor, to mention a few. It would also be worth looking at the liveaboard forum (Liveaboard Link) and check out the cruisers forum (Cruisers & Sailing Forums). Might also be worthwhile joining the Cruising Association (CA), even if only to get some crewing to check your other half likes sailing.

The general advice is to learn to walk before you run. So keep dreaming whilst learning and earning, to give you a bigger budget for a better experience.

 

[penfold]

Would you fly a light aircraft from the UK to Australia next summer? To be honest that would be easier to plan for and do, than sail the Atlantic.

That's all fine but this is just silly; aviation is a far harder game than sailing, you don't die when you let go of the tiller for 5 minutes. It's also much more capital-intensive.

 

[Concerto]

That's all fine but this is just silly; aviation is a far harder game than sailing, you don't die when you let go of the tiller for 5 minutes. It's also much more capital-intensive.

Possibly might be harder, but you can plan exactly where you are going to stop to sleep and refuel - soething you cannot do in mid Atlantic. But at least you can stop and rest without your world continuously moving.

 

[Beneteau381]

I bought my first boat this year and absolutely love it but I think you might be underestimating how much trouble an inexperienced sailor can get in to.

As said do Comp crew, Day Skipper and VHF but don’t rush it too much as so much to learn from the instructors who all do it for the love of sailing and then buy a boat but take it one stage at a time. Day Skipper is great experience but you really are at the bottom rung.

The above qualifications are all I have and I have just started venturing along the coast.

Make an Atlantic crossing your goal by all means but enjoy the journey and there are lots of interesting places to visit UK and Europe spend the time getting to know boats because in the middle of the Atlantic you are on your own just you and water as far as the eye can see.

Re boats, you need to try a 42 foot boat. As a boat gets bigger everything is heavier to operate and more expensive and also the trickiest bit is mooring and a longer boat is harder to manoeuvre, I would suggest nearer 34 foot for a first boat TBH.

I started with a Bene 351, now have a 381. The bigger boat is easier to handle., if I was starting again, I would go for the biggest I could afford

 

[Rappey]

Ignore the people stuck in the past who insist on long encapsulated keels and skeg-hung rudders.

Ive seen a lot of long keeled yachts whos rudders are hung on the keel but have never seen one with a skeg hung rudder ? sort of defeats the object?
Are you getting confused with long fin and skeg hung?
Not sure how wanting a boat that has superb directional stability and a comfy sea motion is stuck in the past ? Guess island packet and rustler have got it wrong?

Some of you should read "the boat they laughed at" .. the guy who is a yachmaster instructor bought a 42ft ferro boat to live on for £1500 and then sailed from essex to the caribbean and back..

 

[KompetentKrew]

I went from zero to hero in a couple of years - no sailing experience in spring 2018, bought a boat in spring 2019, crossed Biscay singlehanded in September 2020.

I did lots of online window-shopping of boats in the year or two before I started to sail, but it's pointless having discussions about them when you have no experience. Building experience on different boats will lend you judgement on the subject.

I had about 100 days on board my first year, and although I looked at a couple of boats before that, it was only the last month that I knew for sure that the decision was right for me. I ended up looking at quite a few boats, and the one I ended up buying is rather different from the first I put an offer on; all boats are compromises, don't get hung up on any specific factor or feature - be flexible and judge the boat as a whole as to whether it meets your needs.

Spending a couple of grand on an Atlantic or Biscay crossing with someone like www.sailracingacademy.org is much cheaper than buying the wrong boat.

 

[robmcg]

Not sure how wanting a boat that has superb directional stability and a comfy sea motion is stuck in the past ?

Sadly, I think many people don't give a toss about either of those characteristics these days ?.

 

[Tranona]

Sadly, I think many people don't give a toss about either of those characteristics these days ?.

I think the point that Bob was making (and has been made many times) is that first those qualities are not exclusive to heavy displacement long keeled boats and second that boats without long keels dominate the boating scene at all levels and are perfectly capable of crossing oceans as hundreds demonstrate each year.

The fact that long keeled boats have not been built in any numbers for 30 years suggests that buyers have exercised their choices and gone in a different direction.

 

[Kelpie]

all boats are compromises, don't get hung up on any specific factor or feature - be flexible and judge the boat as a whole as to whether it meets your needs.

Completely agree. A few years back I read 'Elements of Yacht Design' which really drove home the idea that every single design decision has pros and cons. There is no perfect boat. Avoid extremes of design or anything untested.

 

[Skylark]

I don't what this to be a "my boat is best" thread

……….hard to avoid from some quarters, as you will have seen ?

Welcome to the forum.

I don’t think that two people have taken the same route into sailing, it’s quite evidently a personal thing.

By all means read and consider the usual contradictory advice above but, ultimately, you’ll have to go with go with gut instinct. You say that you will both undertake some training and that seems fairly wise. This experience should plant some seeds so, personally, I’d wait until this has been done before getting out the cheque book.

Start by looking at a few boats in the flesh. It will probably soon become apparent where your preferences lie and, importantly, those of your partner.

UK based boats may not have been prepared for live aboard use but some will have. Med boats more likely will already have some useful additional kit fitted.

Good luck.

 

[Ningaloo]

Just another thought...
If you are convinced that you won't be sailing in the UK, it may be worth looking at ex-charter boats in Croatia or similar. These are often sold off at 5 years old and can be very good value. They will be cosmetically less than perfect, but the better charter companies do look after the maintenance well. A Brexit bonus is that you will be able to buy these ex-VAT (as long as you are not EU resident). That saves you 20% straight off. Charter boats will not be equipped for blue water sailing but will be well equipped for cruising. Only downside is that you are likely to find that the "charter" version of such boats will likely have two small cabins where the "owner" version will have a single large master cabin.

 

[robmcg]

I think the point that Bob was making (and has been made many times) is that first those qualities are not exclusive to heavy displacement long keeled boats and second that boats without long keels dominate the boating scene at all levels and are perfectly capable of crossing oceans as hundreds demonstrate each year.

The fact that long keeled boats have not been built in any numbers for 30 years suggests that buyers have exercised their choices and gone in a different direction.

I simply mean speed and accomodation are now the primary desires for many buyers. Everything else is secondary.