Assistance for inverted sailing dinghy

[davidpbo]

Whilst out sailing today on Windermere we observed on the other side of the lake near Beeches Hotel a sailing dinghy that had become inverted with the person on top trying to right it for a while (High Spec dinghy with adult sailing alone, weather a bit gusty but noting untoward). Some friends of ours, who used to instruct out of Tower Wood were close and passed close by on their 30 footer and I am sure asked if he was OK. We continued to observe and after a very brief time decided it was time to go over and ask if we could offer any assistance. The sailor said he didn't have enough weight to right it, meanwhile a mobo came over from the other side of the lake, a speedboat came wizzing out from the Beeches. He gave the the sailor a line which he tied around the keel and again tried to right the boat, they eventually managed to get it so the sail and mast were horizontal in the water but still struggled to get the dinghy which had a wide open transom upright. We in the meantime had dropped sail and were circling but clear, another boat looked like it was making ready and observing from a boathouse.

It occurs to me that maybe I should have gone in closer and offered to take over the line and allow the speedboat to go in closer to the dinghy and render some more direct physical assistance. Alternatively I should have maybe offered a line to the sailor to hold around the shrouds to give a gentle tug up.

It all ended well, and the dinghy was righted and he sailed off. Had the conditions been much worse I would have had no qualms about calling the wardens if the situation continued.

Good that so many people were keeping a watch on the situation.

 

[ShinyShoe]

Standard SOP - if there are shrouds - take a line from the far away shroud over the up turned hull and GENTLY tow. (if there are jib sheets - they will do the job very nicely.)

Now sure I'd try it from a Yacht.

For a capsized rather than inverted boat often a gentle pull on the bow to pull it into wind is helpful.

A yacht has a lot of stuff to get things tangled in.

When you say "speedboat" do you mean a RIB or some other sort of safety boat or just a random tourist.

 

[davidpbo]

It was a small speedboat, if it had been a safety boat I would have left them to it. My observation of small speedboats is that they often don't have much in the way of line on them. However, random tourist or not, he seemed to be rendering sensible assistance.

We were in a 24ft sailing cruiser with offset outboard so not the best in close quarters manoeuvring.

 

[davidpbo]

We had no reason to think that the dinghy sailor was other than competent (OK the dinghy was inverted) I didn't notice whether he had a buoyancy aid on, he was an adult so his choice , but I would have thought if the dinghy is that hard to right then maybe some additional buoyancy is required particularly if sailing alone.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Easy (ish) if the dinghy is on its side but if it's gone completely inverted with sails hoisted, very difficult in my experience to right it unaided. Some dinghies have masthead floats to reduce the chance of this. So assistance probably needed (or welcome at least). ShineSHoe's method ideal, you need some leverage ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

Easy (ish) if the dinghy is on its side but if it's gone completely inverted with sails hoisted, very difficult in my experience to right it unaided. Some dinghies have masthead floats to reduce the chance of this. So assistance probably needed (or welcome at least). ShineSHoe's method ideal, you need some leverage ...

My small crew cheerfully rights his 7'6" dinghy from fully inverted, but of course that's quite a small boat and something more substantial may be much harder. All the training dinghies at the centre where we sail have masthead floats, either proper streamlined ones or a couple of empty 5 litre squash bottles.

 

[dunedin]

With inverted Toppers and the like, I have watched rescue RIBs (after taking the crew onto the RIB), just grab the painter and race round the boat in fast circles which spins it and pulls it up. Quite a trick when done properly.
Impresses the junior sailors, and saves manual effort at cost of fuel - but not sure I would commend trying this with a yacht and a heavy dinghy

 

[pagoda]

I've managed to get our 14ft RS Vareo inverted twice in 12 years.
It happened because I was too slow doing a conventional righting procedure.
It is difficult to right from inverted , and would be nearly impossible if the daggerboard were to slip inside/under the hull.
With the daggerboard pulled up from the hull and as upright as possible and leaning right back for max leverage , you can get back to horizontal mast in water (normal post normal capsize) . With care you can continue to right the boat and climb in as she comes upright. In both capsizes with inversion I was stuck with my own resources... neither location was all that scary or isolated. In cold water it gets pretty tiring.

 

[lw395]

A lot of dinghies will invert after capsize. In some areas it is seen as an essential safety feature, as a dinghy on its side will blow away from you much faster than you can swim.
Righting an inverted dinghy without help, basically you need to stand on the gunwhale and lean back, it helps to use a line from the shroud area to lean back on, either a purpose made righting line, or a jib sheet.
Righting a dinghy from a RIB, I generally go to the bow of the dinghy and lift, then work along the mast or forestay as appropriate. Using the motor to push the bow sideways can help, but in general it's better to keep the engine off when in contact.
I can't generalise too much as dinghies vary a lot in size, weight and what there is to grab hold of. Also what works fine in flat water when teaching kids can be hopeless in waves.
Sometimes the motion between a heavy rescue boat and the dinghy is a problem.

 

[Greenheart]

Difficult to advise the yachtsman how he may assist in this situation. The first thing to remember is probably to stand clear - because a dinghy's many longish control lines create a big noodle-soup to snag the helper's propellor.

Worth noting that if, at length, the crew of a dinghy seem unable to right a capsized boat, their states of mind and physical condition begin to put them in serious peril, so the bystander in a yacht or RIB ought to stay on hand until the situation really is sorted, rather than assuming there's no problem because the crew waves cheerfully or dismissively.

I've seen previously capable dinghy crews gradually defeated by cold and by confusion as a result of the failure of the procedures they regard as the solution. It's also often the case that having righted the boat, a weakened crew quickly suffers further capsizes, from which they are decreasingly able to recover.

I wonder if there's any sense in the case of a heavy dinghy like mine, in keeping a light strong line tied above the hounds, with the other end (plus a few extra yards) snapshackled to the deck ahead of the forestay. In the event of inversion, the crew disconnects the snapshackle and thereby has a line to offer his rescuer - who can power slowly sideways to bring the masthead to the surface.

...cheerfully rights his 7'6" dinghy from inverted, but of course that's quite small...something more substantial may be much harder.

No kidding...my Osprey is 17'6". Lying on her side, she feels stubbornly inert, with my weight on the tip of the bending centreboard.

It's a pity that a masthead float is held to be a badge of the novice. I think it's akin to 20th century scorn towards cycle-helmets.

I don't want to find out how hard the Osprey is, to get upright from inverted. I doubt it can be done, singlehanded - mainly because even with sheets released, the sails exert considerable resistance to any lateral movement, underwater.

In a fresh breeze at my club last year, several experienced singlehanders capsized and inverted. In the chilly, boisterous conditions, they needed RIB assistance. Of course, none of these gents would consider avoiding that difficulty by using a masthead float.

As LW395 says, opposition to doing so is claimed to be based on the danger that capsized uninverted boats blow downwind faster than an ejected helmsman can swim after her. That isn't a situation I've witnessed in many breezy safety-boat race-duties, though I can see the idea is pretty horrible. For my own purposes, it isn't a situation I envisage because I don't even launch when it is, or may begin to, blow hard.

I think it relates to size, too. A light capsized boat like a Laser might flit downwind pretty fast, if prevented from inverting. My boat feels rather more Costa Concordia when capsized; there's a lot of hull underwater to resist movement in any direction.

The only time I've seen a swimming crewman unable to catch up with the boat, was a two-handed catamaran which had already been righted. The cat had lain on her side in the same spot for a good ten minutes before the other chap aboard, righted her.

So I invariably hoist an empty 5-litre screenwash bottle to my masthead before launching. It works. And while I know the big boat can (with patience and technique) be righted from lying on her side, I doubt I could recover her from an inversion, singlehanded.

 

[emsworthy]

I think it relates to size, too. A light capsized boat like a Laser might flit downwind pretty fast, if prevented from inverting. My boat feels rather more Costa Concordia when capsized; there's a lot of hull underwater to resist movement in any direction.

Lasers actually lay quite low in the water when capsized with the rig almost flat to the surface. The more challenging boats are more modern asymmetric dinghies where the buoyancy is predominantly in the sides of the hull due to having open transoms and fixed poles and chutes. They float very high in the water with the heel of the mast well above the water which causes two issues; the lighter ones blow away quickly downwind and they invert very easily. There have been a couple of tragic losses of crew caught under inverted asymmetric dinghies. The one that springs to mind was at the Laser 4000 Nationals at Abersoch I believe. My first thought when seeing an inverted dinghy is if there is still another person trapped underneath.

 

[JumbleDuck]

No kidding...my Osprey is 17'6". Lying on her side, she feels stubbornly inert, with my weight on the tip of the bending centreboard.

My first unintentional capsize was in a Sea Scout Enterprise. Remembering all I had been taught, I put my weight on the centreboard and pulled on the jib sheet. The centreboard snapped off at the hull and the jib ripped in half. Since it turned out that we had gone over because a shroud had parted, as a result of which the hollow wooden mast had split up the middle, I think it safe to say that maintenance had not been wholly adequate.

That boat never sailed again and I was given a Mirror to skipper on sailing evenings thereafter.

 

[lw395]

I have been in the position of my boat being on its side after a capsize, with me struggling to right it. It did indeed drift a lot faster than my crew could swim after it.

There have been a very few deaths from this scenario. A very few deaths from entrapment with inverting boats. I don't believe there is a risk-free answer, but the risk is small either way. Maybe ideally a boat should turtle, but not too quickly?

 

[Greenheart]

Maybe ideally a boat should turtle, but not too quickly?

That would seem ideal.

Maybe just a small masthead float...whose buoyancy won't prevent inversion, but will slow the process down, and aid recovery.

The centreboard snapped off at the hull...the jib ripped in half...a shroud had parted...the hollow wooden mast had split up the middle...

Picture sea scouts being allowed in a boat like that, these days! Pursued by lawyer-filled RIBs, anticipating a compensation case.

 

[chriss999]

That would seem ideal.

Maybe just a small masthead float...whose buoyancy won't prevent inversion, but will slow the process down, and aid recovery.



Picture sea scouts being allowed in a boat like that, these days! Pursued by lawyer-filled RIBs, anticipating a compensation case.

Ultimately the most helpful thing the yacht could do would being ready to rescue the dinghy skipper/crew if they were in danger, eg trapped underneath, or excessively cold or tired. Rescuing the dinghy is relatively unimportant.

But glad it turned out all right.

Masthead floats are generally used by learners and a confident skipper/crew is unlikely to use one, in my experience. (Speaking personally I mostly sail a laser & I spent a lot of time in the water righting it!)

 

[Greenheart]

Masthead floats are generally used by learners and a confident skipper/crew is unlikely to use one

True that a confident skipper/crew is unlikely to use a masthead float...but it's unfortunate that the benefit is so narrowly recognised as such, and hence considered as "only for learners". In fact, it's only for people who don't want to have to deal with an inversion.

 

[lw395]

True that a confident skipper/crew is unlikely to use a masthead float...but it's unfortunate that the benefit is so narrowly recognised as such, and hence considered as "only for learners". In fact, it's only for people who don't want to have to deal with an inversion.

In my view, they should generally only be used in training situations where boats are under close supervision of a safety boat.
Otherwise, if you can't recover from an inversion, people need to take a long hard look at whether they should be out there.
Have you tested your 5 litre bottle? I'm not sure it would be big enough if you should capsize in choppy water.
Our club training boats use Rooster floats which I believe are 9 litres for a much smaller boat. Even then you can invert the boat, for instance if the crew falls onto the sail.

 

[davidpbo]

Ultimately the most helpful thing the yacht could do would being ready to rescue the dinghy skipper/crew if they were in danger, eg trapped underneath, or excessively cold or tired. Rescuing the dinghy is relatively unimportant.

But glad it turned out all right.

I am O.P., that is what is more or less what we did, although I must admit I did not enquire if there was anyone else sailing with him.

No criticism intended but i hope the dinghy sailor will have a think next time he goes out alone. Surely someone makes a neat automatically inflated mast head float.

As you said, it all ended well and it was just a bit of a diversion.

 

[davidpbo]

I did not offer more physical assistance because I thought speedboat was better able to, being smaller and more manouevrerable. I was also aware that I did not know the build of the dinghy, its strong points etc.

 

[Greenheart]

Our club training boats use Rooster floats

I have a Rooster float too. I wasn't impressed with its capacity...more like 7 litres than the advertised 9. But that's still at least 70 Newtons of buoyancy at the end of a 23ft lever. My buoyancy jacket only gives 50 Newtons.

...they should generally only be used in training situations where boats are under close supervision of a safety boat...if you can't recover from an inversion, people need to take a long hard look at whether they should be out there.

Hmm. I've always taken the dinghy cruising view (as I interpret it), that if one needs nannying by a safety boat, it's not worth doing! :biggrin-new:

Plenty of risks in sailing at every level, but the fun needn't be snuffed out by fear or by nannying, if one takes precautions.

Kitting the dinghy to diminish probability of inversion, plus not sailing when capsize is probable, are amongst my precautions. In six years, I've capsized once, at the start of a season before I had the float hoisted; my new toe-straps let go. It wasn't windy and she didn't invert, despite 5 minutes on each side...but for the future, it couldn't be prudent to leave those 70 Newtons ashore.

I'd be surprised if lately, that chap on Windermere hasn't even considered getting a masthead float.