Arthur Mitchell Ransome

"Dylan's use of the word "toff" is instructive. It is a derogatory term applied to persons perceived to be at a higher social level than the writer, much like the word "pleb" which is approximately the opposite. Hopefully both are falling out of use."

I suspect we're gonna hear plenty of toffery in the forthcoming general election campaign.
 
JimC said:
I've been enjoying Dylan's u-tube narrative "Keep Turning Left" but at times I thought I detected in his comments and asides something of a political agenda (e.g. Margaret Thatcher more warlike than Boadicea) or at least some ingrained social prejudice. I am probably wrong about this and certainly won't let it spoil my enjoyment. I hope to carry on enjoying Dylan's works and hope they will continue to entertain future generations for as long as Arthur Ransome's have.
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I guess all I was saying is that I found it hard to identify with AR's central characters

well, drifting away from the saintly AR somewhat - and to the stuff of life

well spotted.... the series is called keep turning left, the boat was created at the behest of the daily mirror, the journey around the UK is being done on the cheap and free of revenue or sponsorship, I was raised in a council flat and I commute to the boat in an N reg polo with 120,000 miles on the clock

not complaining at all... but roots are roots...

and I confess that there are times that the odd thought creeps into my head that when it comes to social inequality and waging war a long way from our own shores Britain has a most impressive track record.
 
On the Swallows and Amazons, "them and us" theme, I read a lovely quote from Denny Dessouter which I'd like to misquote here:
"D'you realise,", someone once said to him, "that if we'd been sailing a hundred years ago, we would have had paid hands to look after our boats?"
"If I'd been sailing a hundred years ago, I'd have been a paid hand."

Denny never considered himself a toff.
 
dylanwinter said:
I guess all I was saying is that I found it hard to identify with AR's central characters

well, drifting away from the saintly AR somewhat - and to the stuff of life

well spotted.... the series is called keep turning left, the boat was created at the behest of the daily mirror, the journey around the UK is being done on the cheap and free of revenue or sponsorship, I was raised in a council flat and I commute to the boat in an N reg polo with 120,000 miles on the clock

not complaining at all... but roots are roots...

and I confess that there are times that the odd thought creeps into my head that when it comes to social inequality and waging war a long way from our own shores Britain has a most impressive track record.
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Keep it up, Mr Winter, your tales are all the more enjoyable for being so down -to-earth. This from one raised in a council house and whose family once had the honour of having the oldest car on the estate.

Now... I wonder if somebody is going to circumnavigate Britain the other way in a luxury yacht with paid crew? :D
 
dylanwinter said:
thank goodness.... I am not alone
should we form a support group
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You seem to have done that, Dylan.
And yes I read them all umpteen times out of the library, took them at face value and enjoyed them hugely, and no doubt they had a great deal to do with me starting sailing at age 11 and still going now, 50 years on.
And having been shown over the 'Nancy Blackett' last summer, I have even re-read 'We Didn't Mean to go to Sea' recently.
 
Hi
I read the books as a child 40 odd years ago, and even then they were dated but surely thats part of the charm, to understand how people lived. They were, and still are, wonderful books that sowed the seeds for me of boating (ok it took about 30 years for them to germinate, but I am very grateful that they did). Since then my children have read them and we have even been and explored the lakes and found wildcat island together. There is no island on that lake but with as little imagination we found a suitable spot. And now my kids have sailed all over the country and europe in dinghy competitions and have made wonderful lifelong friends and had great experiences and become responsible adventurers, they are now (15,17 and 18) and dinghy instructors enjoying teaching other kids or we are out having our own adventures in our "new" Konsort, they will be doing Day skipper in the new year.
All this, I think, is a direct result of my mother getting those books from the Library 40 years ago.
So I for one will be eternally grateful to Arthur as I firmly believe there is no better occupation for a family than "messin about in boats".
Cheers
Nick
 
JimC said:
Considering that these books have never been out of print since their first appearance in 1930, and have been very widely translated, it would seem that your opinion is not universally shared.
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Popularity isn't and has never been a sign of literary quality. Not many popular books have ever gotten the Nobel Prize either. That said, it doesn't mean that a popular book has to be something bad, but there are differences between popularity and literature. Literature isn't only about a good story. Popularity usually is.
 
Dylan,
Keep Turning Left is an absolute delight. I have just put off work for an hour catching up. Thrilled to see that we now have "yachting totty" on board as well.
I'm not getting involved with the Arthur Ransome saga other than to say that his autobiography of his time in Russia during the Revolution is by far his most interesting work. I mean, marrying Trotsky's secretary, just how more un-toffy can you get?
But I did realise from this thread why your voyage is so satisfying. No sponsors. No Logos. No artificial time limits (and how). No arbitrary records (although as and when you finally complete the voyage I am sure that you will be the first person of precisely your age on that date to have completed a circumnavigation). Just done because you want to. Keep it up and keep the camera rolling (or buzzing or whatever they do these days).
 
toad_oftoadhall said:
FWIW I used to love AR books as a child, and although we weren't upper middle class, my twin brother and I did spend every day and all day of every summer holiday exploring alone under sail/oar/outboard from about 8 'till we discovered fanny. We didn't ever camp out but we did camp in the boat park sometimes. I think it was a wonderful way to spend childhood summers. We learned about responsibility and had endless fun.

If someone else doesn't like AR then that's great, each to their own.
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Was she Titty's sister?
 
I loved them as a child, led a life in the holidays a little bit like them, and loved them again when reading them to my own children.

To my mind "Missee Lee" is in a class of its own, touching on what draws people back to their own culture and background, despite temptations offered by another world.
The image of Miss Lee rowing back to meet the pirates, possibly facing death, possibly re-establishing her old position, but turning her back on the possibilities of England, Cambridge, Latin, I find quite moving even now. They might have been head-chopping pirates, but they were "her" pirates for all that. There's a lesson there.

I always found the sequence of the books a little odd, and had this theory that some of them are to be taken as "real" (but fiction to us of course) and others are fantasy woven into the sequence, possibly as if written by Titty during the other winter holidays.

For example, Peter Duck gets a mention as a fictional character in Swallowdale before he actually appears in the eponymous story. I suspect that the deep-sea stories, apart from We didn't mean.., are to be taken as just extensions of the "natives", "Darien", "Kanchenjunga" make-believe.


Good background to the real people here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/taqui-altounyan-729241.html
 
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dylanwinter said:
I guess all I was saying is that I found it hard to identify with AR's central characters

well, drifting away from the saintly AR somewhat - and to the stuff of life

well spotted.... the series is called keep turning left, the boat was created at the behest of the daily mirror, the journey around the UK is being done on the cheap and free of revenue or sponsorship, I was raised in a council flat and I commute to the boat in an N reg polo with 120,000 miles on the clock

not complaining at all... but roots are roots...

and I confess that there are times that the odd thought creeps into my head that when it comes to social inequality and waging war a long way from our own shores Britain has a most impressive track record.
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Blimey Dylan, after reading that I was back in the seventies for a moment and dreamed I was reading Socialist Worker all over again.;);)

Tim
 
Arthur Ransome

The discussions on this forum are often interesting but for odd reasons: the fact that somebody's dislike of books written 60 to 70 years ago should generate so many responses is peculiar. However...

I read them as a child. The characters bore no relationship to anybody I knew but I enjoyed the books and read them all. I'm ridiculously pleased to now have in my possession a small piece of deck planking and a couple of nails from AR's boat 'Nancy Blackett'. (I knew somebody who was restoring her and these were being replaced so he let me have them.)

On the other hand, I have tried to read several books by Thomas Hardy, the Brontes and various others hailed as literary heroes and couldn't stand them. In terms of the period feel of Swallows and Amazons etc. I wonder how the Harry Potter books will seem in 60 to 70 years time?

So the fact that Dylan Winter doesn't like the books is, frankly, irrelevant. There are probably thousands of people who agree with him and thousands who like them. So what?
 
My son's teacher used to reckon that kids either liked AR or Just William - never both.

So, Dylan, did you like Just William?

No criticism intended - we are all different, and long may we be able to hold different opinions.

I loved AR, so did my son and like many others here, they fuelled my love of sailing. I don't think I ever felt that I should aspire to the sort of life the AR children lived - they were a sort of fantasy, like most childrens' books that I read.

One interesting aspect, which you can see whenever you read a really compelling children's book, is the way they get rid of the parents. Ransome's childrens' adventures were entirely devoid of parents (at work or looking after the baby), Just Williams (darning socks or something), Famous Fives etc (just not really around), Harry Potter (a bit extreme, there, she killed them off and Harry just has neglectful aunt and uncle), you can add loads to the list!
 
ransome discussion - so what

I thought the reaction I got to the video was interesting

- and the so what principle can be applied to most of the discussions on scuttlebutt - especially those involving flag etiquette - but that is what this forum is for.

And I am amazed that it took 50 posts before the personal attacks started - very controlled I thought - well done scuttlebutt

dylan winter http://www.youtube.com/user/dylanwinter1


"So the fact that Dylan Winter doesn't like the books is, frankly, irrelevant. There are probably thousands of people who agree with him and thousands who like them. So what? "!
 
think We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea is a smashing book - super narrative and an a-z of seamanship and seaman like attitudes - and a great sense of group jeopoardy - and great to draw out the kids relative strengths - terrific book -

all the rest - just a load of old bollox ....
 
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