Artemisia - new build thread for a Prestige 680

[BartW]

I remember being on the outer wall in Korcula when big Bora came. People were in trouble and breaking waves hit the bows of the boats. My solution was to rev the engine to hell (chartered Beneteau 46 sailboat) cut the stern lines and go, with crew dropping the bow line as we left. In croatia, there is always a calm anchorage on the lee side of some island, just 5 minutes around the corner!

in summer 2014 I prebooked a berth at Korcula ACI marina,
when arriving it appeared that they didn't have anymore space behind the outer wall, so they wanted to give me a place on the outside,
I refused that place because of wheather prediction !
and luckyly after some Phone calls with friends ;-) I got a space on the town quay , on the other side of the old town, (nothing to do with the ACI marina)

since than, we alway's stay here when visiting Korcula
that same evening I made these pics from that breackwall / ACI marina:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

In Korcula, you definitely made the right call, because the outer wall can become downright dangerous, due to the wide open fetch up to the Peljesac peninsula (i.e. well above 1nm, IIRC). Enough to build up some nasty and steep breaking waves, depending on how long the wind lasts.
Though other than that, Korcula is indeed a little gem, I must say!

Yes Korcula was one of our favourite destinations in Croatia (it has one of my favourite bars too!) but having said that and as you pointed out, the Bora wind is funneled between Korcula island and the Peljesac peninsula and when it blows, it blows very hard in this area. I agree that the outer wall of the marina is no place to moor when the Bora blows although many large boats are directed to moor there by the marina staff. Much better to motor SE from Korcula, past the fuel station and anchor in the sheltered water behind the islands between there and Lumbarda.

 

[MapisM]

oei, yet again another anker discussion here I used to stay away from these threads

LOL, yeah, usually I also smile at this sort of anchor debates!
Anyway, leaving aside the fact that jfm consensus on physics/geometry is probably worth more than any further explanation I might think of )), I'll try to better explain what I meant.

1) let's assume to anchor in conditions where 100m of chain is already plenty for the depth (in Split, I believe I had 6 to 8 meters where I dropped the hooks - surely less than 10 anyway, so plenty of scope also with less than 100m), and the anchor is well settled in a properly holding seabed. Therefore, you can pull the chain with as much force as you wish without dragging the anchor.
2) Of course, there's a limit anyway to the applicable force, and it's unavoidable to have some elasticity left between the fixed holding points (anchor at one end, dock bollards at the other), no matter how tight you can pull your winches.
3) now, at the stern, such elasticity is highly constrained, because you have a couple of short lines attached to fixed bollards, and more than likely you also use crossed lines to resist sideways movements.
4) otoh, at the bow you have nothing like that: just one fixed holding point, 100m away, with a (relatively) elastic chain in between. As a consequence, the bow is much less restricted than the stern in its side movements - in fact, as you previously agreed, with two anchors deployed at an angle you can get a much better stability overall.
Now, for any given tension of chain/stern lines, such elasticity is proportional to the total distance between the holding points at the opposite extremes.
That doesn't change a lot at the stern (where the holding points are much closer), but the bow can definitely be affected.

TBH, I neither remember the elasticity theory well enough, nor I can tell by heart, whether such relationship is linear or not.
I mean, if a given strength force can push the bow 2 meters sideways with 100m chain, I can't tell for sure whether the same force with 200m chain (remember, assuming the same tension!) can push the bow more, less or exactly 4 meters sideways. But the bow movement will positively be larger, AOTBE.
Just thing of how much, applying the same force, you can flex a 1m plastic ruler by holding it firmly on one side or half way!

 

[MAFWeiss]

Not sure what all the above has to do with my new build... but, hey...there you go, it is an open forum :sleeping:

 

[westernman]

Not sure what all the above has to do with my new build... but, hey...there you go, it is an open forum :sleeping:

This thread is drifting because you used the wrong kind of anchor

 

[MapisM]

Not sure what all the above has to do with my new build... but, hey...there you go, it is an open forum :sleeping:

Well, I'm not sure about Italian Baroque painters too, but hey-ho!

 

[Piers]

So what's the final decision re the generator started a few hundred posts ago?

BTW, Play d'eau has two gen sets for which I was really grateful when crusing the French coast a few years ago. One the gen set's heat exchanger split and couldn't be used. Hence, the joy of having a second gen set...

 

[BartW]

....Now, for any given tension of chain/stern lines, such elasticity is proportional to the total distance between the holding points at the opposite extremes.
That doesn't change a lot at the stern (where the holding points are much closer), but the bow can definitely be affected.

up till here I agree with you, but from then on, I have slightly different experiences, but lets not spoil this briljant building thread any further, and discuss this while consuming a Sardinian wine ;-)

apoligies to OP for this thread drift
I was merely triing to explain why a longer chain length than 100m is usefull for us in South Croatia

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Not sure what all the above has to do with my new build... but, hey...there you go, it is an open forum :sleeping:

This is a variation of Godwin's Law, the law that states as every internet forum thread gets longer, the probability of a comparison with Hitler or the Nazis becomes larger. The variation states that as every internet boating thread gets longer, the probability of the thread degenerating into a discussion about anchoring becomes larger. There is also a sub variation which applies to this particular motorboat forum as well which states that as a thread on this forum gets longer, the probability of technical handbags between Mapism and jfm becomes larger. You should feel privileged that your thread has thrown up excellent examples of both the variation to Godwin's Law and it's sub variation

 

[MapisM]

ROTFL, it was worth going into "technical handbags" just to hear of this Godwin's Law variations. Many thanks for a proper laugh after a long and hard day!

@ BartW: yup, all agreed. I must remember to bring some bottles of Carignano, if and when I'll come to PM. But you also know where to find me, alternatively! :encouragement:

 

[MAFWeiss]

You should feel privileged that your thread has thrown up excellent examples of both the variation to Godwin's Law and it's sub variation

Thank you Mapism for enlightening me on this matter. Privileged I do now indeed feel

Anyway, moving on rapidly…the latest update on my 680 is that the hull painting is now NOT happening due to quote escalating to nigh on £100k inc VAT, and an equally disappointing 6 to 8 week time frame. So now instead the boat will be wrapped, for a very substantial saving not only in cash, but time! The wrap should be done and dusted hopefully in around 5 days, which will mean that we will get use of Artemisia a month earlier.

This has worked out well, because it will enable us to sail her back as her maiden voyage to Salerno the 3rd weekend on May, well in advance of our next trip out to celebrate the wife's birthday a month later. This first, likely 3 day voyage of some 550nm (including a night passage), we will be accompanied by Prestige's professional shipper and his wife, and it will be the opportunity for us to learn from, and practice with him, (hopefully) all we need to know from a practical perspective about this much more advanced vessel.

 

[MapisM]

Thank you Mapism for enlightening me on this matter.

Actually, it's Deleted User who enlightened us.
'twas a privilege also for myself, discovering to be part of a theory I wasn't aware of...

PS: I don't think you'll regret going for the wrapping. If done properly, the result can be impressive.

 

[Portofino]

Wrapping a big new boat is a retrograde move -soon look tatty -age -and have huge -ve effect on residues .
Why not take it as -(cream /off white ?) .
One day in the summer pop round the corner into the pvt Apreamare marina under Vesuvius and get them to quote for a winter -off season job , for a proper paint job inc the HT .
After a season of use you may be in a better position to make an informed choice re colour ?
They will paint it for less than a French wrap

 

[Nick_H]

Wrapping a big new boat is a retrograde move -soon look tatty -age -and have huge -ve effect on residues

That can't be the case, can it? Wrap can just be peeled off, so surely the max financial loss under any circumstance is the cost of the wrap, plus some labour to remove it?

 

[Portofino]

That can't be the case, can it? Wrap can just be peeled off, so surely the max financial loss under any circumstance is the cost of the wrap, plus some labour to remove it?

You can,t see the scalpel marks done at fitting until its all off ! -that's on top any normal dings picked up on the way that have been recovered over as opposed to proper gel coat repairs .
Surely a 4-5 y old unwrapped -gel coat or painted will go ie sell before a 4-5 y wrapped one .with its hidden marks !
I was quoted by SunCap in St Tropez €5000 + tax to paint an fifteen year old sun faded blue Itama 54.-
Extrapolating that to a 68 In Italy € guess less than € 15000 - tops

Then the issue of " white price " or a mix of "white price "+ "Black price" -that's cash to you and me :encouragement: say no more !

 

[MAFWeiss]

You can,t see the scalpel marks done at fitting until its all off ! -that's on top any normal dings picked up on the way that have been recovered over as opposed to proper gel coat repairs .
Surely a 4-5 y old unwrapped -gel coat or painted will go ie sell before a 4-5 y wrapped one .with its hidden marks !
I was quoted by SunCap in St Tropez €5000 + tax to paint an fifteen year old sun faded blue Itama 54.-
Extrapolating that to a 68 In Italy € guess less than € 15000 - tops

Then the issue of " white price " or a mix of "white price "+ "Black price" -that's cash to you and me :encouragement: say no more !

Thank you Portofino, but wraps are easy to repair, and gelcoat damage can be dealt with properly as usual, prior to a wrap 'patch' rather than repainting. So that does not worry me.

Regarding the incredibly cheap guesstimate of €15,000 ''tops'' for painting my boat, here is a challenge for you… if you can find a highly reputable team/yard to paint my boat close to my marina with AWLcraft 2000 - including the hard top for €22,000 (incl all ancillary costs), I will pay you a success fee of €5,000 if I decide to proceed. And as you correctly state, cash is king! :encouragement:

 

[MAFWeiss]

Anyway, having revisited the 680 at LIBS yesterday, I think I now officially have 'wrap mania'. As part of my plan to enhance the interior finishes where needed, I have decided to use a colour vinyl covering on the walls of the three showers, as well as on the currently rather stark white doors in the gallery. I am also going to cover the central panels, which are in corian, with some very cool decorative mosaic tiles from Porcelanosa.

Subject to wife's approval, there is a golden 'champagne' colour vinyl wrap which will complement the tiles below. I want the colour be be a relatively light hue, that will add some warmth and richness to the space.

The very contemporary circular shapes contrast nicely with the predominately angular shapes elsewhere.

 

[MapisM]

Regarding the incredibly cheap guesstimate of €15,000 ''tops'' for painting my boat, here is a challenge for you… if you can find a highly reputable team/yard to paint my boat close to my marina with AWLcraft 2000 - including the hard top for €22,000 (incl all ancillary costs), I will pay you a success fee of €5,000 if I decide to proceed.

If it weren't for the "close to my marina" requirement, you could consider that done.
Otoh, a cruise to S Sardinia is not that far from your marina after all, and I'm sure you wouldn't regret coming regardless of the paint job.
Oh, and just in case you might think I'm lured by the success fee, you can keep it. As long as you come with that fridge of yours well stocked, that is!

PS: coming to think of it, if by "ancillary costs" you mean also lifting, storing and put the boat back in the water, it's probably a bit of a stretch.
But you must afford most of these costs at least on a yearly basis anyway (for scrub, a/f, etc.) so it's just a matter of agreeing an off-season timing, I guess.

 

[MAFWeiss]

If it weren't for the "close to my marina" requirement, you could consider that done.
Otoh, a cruise to S Sardinia is not that far from your marina after all, and I'm sure you wouldn't regret coming regardless of the paint job.
Oh, and just in case you might think I'm lured by the success fee, you can keep it. As long as you come with that fridge of yours well stocked, that is!

PS: coming to think of it, if by "ancillary costs" you mean also lifting, storing and put the boat back in the water, it's probably a bit of a stretch.
But you must afford most of these costs at least on a yearly basis anyway (for scrub, a/f, etc.) so it's just a matter of agreeing an off-season timing, I guess.

​Haahaaa thank you very much Mapism. I can assure you it is purely a case of when we eventually can make it over to Sardinia to see you, maybe in 2017? Once there, I will be only delighted to share treasures from Artemisia's 'cellar' with you - paint job or not!! :very_drunk::very_drunk:

In the meantime, let 's see how my wrapping experience goes :friendly_wink:

 

[MapisM]

I can assure you it is purely a case of when we eventually can make it over to Sardinia to see you, maybe in 2017?

Looking fwd to that! :encouragement:

Btw, one alternative strategy might be leaving the boat unwrapped for the moment, and if eventually you would really miss the colour, consider the Awlgrip job instead.
In fact, Portofino actually has a point when he suggests that by wrapping a brand new hull, the yard could be tempted to leave a less than perfect gelcoat finish underneath.
By asking them to deliver her "naked", you don't give them this chance... And of course, you are still free to choose anything afterwards!
Just a thought.