Are they really still worth the money...?

ari

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Flicking idly through Boats and Yachts this morning (just dreaming, can't afford to buy a new one!).

Anyway, years ago (about 10-15 years now) I used to run a Fairline 33 Targa (1990 boat, the old shape one, forward sloping arch, lovely lovely boat).

We bought it when it was about five years old I suppose and ran it for a few years. Paid low £60K's for it, sold it for much the same.

But the thing is, these things are now circa 20 years old, and people are still asking well into the £60K's for them now! I can't find it now, but I'm sure I saw a 1988 boat for £69K, that's a twenty year old boat next year!

Do people really pay this much money for such old boats? I know they'll still be really great boats (ours was built like a the proverbial brick out house) but the engines, drives etc are getting on, as is wiring, old equipment, etc.

I wonder if it's a case of "self perpetuating myth", ie everyone sees everyone else asking that sort of money, so they do. Then others see their ad and so ask the same, and on and on.

Other boats of that era, Corniches, 31 Portofinos etc, all up at the kind of money they were asking 10-15 years ago when they were young boats.

Although every now and again you stumble over one thet seems to be a bit more sensible, for example there is a 31 Portofino in the mag with twin Volvo 200hp diesels for £35K, which seems to me to be a bit more like it (most are up for circa £49K).

Just wondered what peoples thoughts were, whether these older boats really do still get the money they were fetching when they were just a couple of years old (in which case they do hold their money fantastically well), or whether it's a case of copycat pricing?

Must admit, that 31 Portofino seems a lot of boat for £35K though. Hmmm...
 

bobgoode

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The second hand price must reflect the cost of buying new. My boat cost 55K but now cost around 68K to replace new. Thus a four year old at 54K seems fair value, especially as it will come with lots of kit and four year TLC.

That said it is strange that people wil pay so much for very old boats.
 

Whitelighter

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I guess it is down to the market and the economy away from boats. 15 years ago the boat was worth £65k, but that said 15 years ago you could buy a decent sized house for £65k as well. Now, that same house is probably £200k plus, so in terms of reletive value the boat is actually worth a damn site less than it was 15 years ago, it is just the monetry figure has remained the same.

Put it another way, 15 years ago when the boat was 5 years old, how much could you buy a new 34ft twin engined boat for? £80k? Now, if you want one built by a decent manufacturer, with a good spec you are talking at least £150k, with some (Failine for example) pushing £200k for the last T34's. So in terms of what is around new, £60k still looks like good value.

You have a point about the engines etc etc, but I guess most will have had new nav gear etc in their lifetime, plus a boat engine is very lightly used. 1500 hours in your car would equate to 45,000 miles - which is nothing really. The GRP superstructure will be as strong now as it was when new, and if the service history is right then they are a good, big boat for sensible money.
 

ari

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Oh indeed. But these are really quite old boats (admittedly with plenty of life left in them I'm sure) and I suppoe quite old fashioned (although personally I love the old late '80s styling, squared off windows, flat foredecks etc).

Just found the 33 Targa I was referring to, it's in Windsor Marine Sales ad and it's a 1988 boat for £69,950! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

That seems a hell of a lot to me when we paid something like £63K (I forget the exact amount) for one many years ago when it was probably about four or five years old, something like that (and basically still looked and felt like a new boat then).

They are really superb boats though, very solid and much more specious than a modern 33 footer (because the 33ft referred to hull length to the transom, not to the tip of the bathing platform which wasn't part of the hull moulding on those old boats).
 

ari

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[ QUOTE ]


Put it another way, 15 years ago when the boat was 5 years old, how much could you buy a new 34ft twin engined boat for? £80k? Now, if you want one built by a decent manufacturer, with a good spec you are talking at least £150k, with some (Failine for example) pushing £200k for the last T34's. So in terms of what is around new, £60k still looks like good value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I'm sure that must have a lot to do with it, the old Targa 33's are about a third of new cost now I suppose.

[ QUOTE ]


You have a point about the engines etc etc, but I guess most will have had new nav gear etc in their lifetime, plus a boat engine is very lightly used. 1500 hours in your car would equate to 45,000 miles - which is nothing really. The GRP superstructure will be as strong now as it was when new, and if the service history is right then they are a good, big boat for sensible money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah the engines are the thing. We sold ours at about 10 years old (I think) after getting some hefty bills starting to come in (transom shields corroding etc, ouch!)

Hasten to say that all the work was done and boat was in good order when it went, but we didn't want to chance more expensive mechanical maladies.

I think that (and the slight lack of a spare £35K) is what would put me off that Sunseeker 31 Portofino for £35K. The thought of opening myself up to those big bills.
 

Chris_d

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You keep answering your own question, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif they are a lot of boat for the money, very solid with lots of life left in them, still look good as well. Many have very low hours for 20 year old boats, we are not talking about a 20 year old car are we.
69K does sound too much though, i bet 50-60K is a more typical selling price. Anyway thank goodness boats do hold their value otherwise we would all be considerably poorer.
 

Nautorius

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Ari,

I have to agree that these old late 1980s/early 1990s seem way overpriced. There are very few that I would pay any where near the asking price. A good targa 33 is worth £45-50k (IMHO) so they are unrealistically priced. Mind you someone must be buying them, although I would guess at nearer my price than theirs.

Good solid boats, but given old technology and the weight of these monsters, and the loss of red, prices will reallign this year. Price realistically, sell quickly!

Great boats but definitely overpriced IMHO,

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Its about the value of money, is'nt it. Thanks to inflation £65k 15 yrs ago is worth a lot more than it is now. I guess if you put £65k into a bank 15yrs ago, it would be worth £100k+ now so its not true to say that the boat has held its value
Also there are 2 other factors at work here. Grp boats go on for ever so provided the grp is maintained, the hull will be as good as it was when it was moulded. Secondly, the ever increasing prices for new boats which seem to outpace inflation every year support secondhand prices
 

jcmmarine

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They are all worth what people are willing to pay.

A 30 year old boat built like a BSH, with real wood interior and all new quality furnishings, will probably last much longer and keep its price better, than a 5 year old wafer thin hull with plastic wood trim.

Once you get past the shiney look new stage its is a boats condition that counts not its age.

The problem and confusion arises from the wide range of prices for same age boats. A refurbished and well cared for boat can command double that of one needing refurbishment.
 

ari

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[ QUOTE ]
Ari,

I have to agree that these old late 1980s/early 1990s seem way overpriced. There are very few that I would pay any where near the asking price. A good targa 33 is worth £45-50k (IMHO) so they are unrealistically priced. Mind you someone must be buying them, although I would guess at nearer my price than theirs.

Good solid boats, but given old technology and the weight of these monsters, and the loss of red, prices will reallign this year. Price realistically, sell quickly!

Great boats but definitely overpriced IMHO,

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much my thinking. And looking at the example above of someone who actually sold one, sounds like you could be right.
 

ari

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[ QUOTE ]
Its about the value of money, is'nt it. Thanks to inflation £65k 15 yrs ago is worth a lot more than it is now. I guess if you put £65k into a bank 15yrs ago, it would be worth £100k+ now so its not true to say that the boat has held its value
Also there are 2 other factors at work here. Grp boats go on for ever so provided the grp is maintained, the hull will be as good as it was when it was moulded. Secondly, the ever increasing prices for new boats which seem to outpace inflation every year support secondhand prices

[/ QUOTE ]

Appreciate they'rre not the same thing, but it doesn't work that way for cars. A ten year old BMW 5 Series doesn't hold its value because a new 5 Series today is much more expensive than a new 5 Sereis 10 years ago for example.

Bad analogy I know (boats don't wear out like cars), but I would expect something to be worth steadily less as it gets older.
 

ari

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[ QUOTE ]

The problem and confusion arises from the wide range of prices for same age boats. A refurbished and well cared for boat can command double that of one needing refurbishment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes indeed. I like to think ours held its value so well because when we bought it it hadn't been used for a while and was looking a bit shabby (albeit mainly cosmetically), whereas when we sold it, it was mint.
 
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Deleted User YDKXO

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[ QUOTE ]
a new 5 Series today is much more expensive than a new 5 Sereis 10 years ago for example.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong example, I'm afraid. I paid £28k for a new 528i in 1996 and you can get a similar powered new 525i today for similar money. In real inflation adjusted terms that makes a new 5 series an awful lot cheaper than it was 10yrs ago. This is as a result of more efficient production methods and a much more competitive market but the downside of this real terms fall in new prices is that used car values are much lower. These factors don't seem to have affected the new boat market where prices have risen both in absolute and real inflation adjusted terms and hence values of secondhand boats have been maintained. If new boat prices had fallen in the same way as new car prices, then secondhand boat values would have dived
The reason, of course, why new car prices have fallen in real terms and new boat prices have'nt is the much higher labour cost element in building a boat compared to a car
 
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