Are there many idiots dry sanding anti fouling where you are

[Lakesailor]

. You may wear PPE; where does your sanding dust go?

If you read my post again you will see that I did not suggest that you could not have a different opinion. You are perfectly entitled to yours; my comment was that yours was based on ignorance. That remains a factually correct observation.

Whilst I may be talking to fresh air now I would suggest that someone with such a grasp of detail you have missed the point that I have made four times that I sand my antifoul in my garden. The spoil lands on tarps I spread out. I don't do it on a breezy day so my nearest neighbours do not benefit from any dust. I do wear a welding breathing mask and safety glasses as well as coveralls.

My comment is not based on ignorance. It is based on making my own assessment of the information I have been able to find. Your assumption is that if I had to hand the information you have I could not possibly have a different opinion to you.
That remains a factually incorrect observation.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I think there are a couple of points worth mentioning here.

Firstly, if you're going to make a mess that can spread then of course you should use dust sheets to minimise this but this brings me onto my second point -Boatyards are a working environment. People will be working on their boats. Noise, paint fumes, styrene fumes, dust are always going to be found in such places.

I thought that school of thought died out decades ago.

I take the view that a few quid spent on a decent mask to protect me from whatever nasties may or may not be present is money well spent to protect me.

And what about anybody else that happens to be walking past?

 

[2700]

Hi guys just me making a appearance at the end of the thread (I've been busy sanding my bottom).
Firstly no offense was intended to any individual on the Forum by my use if the word "Idiot". I meant it in the sense of stupid behavior by those who you would think should know better.
The day in question I had just painted the final coat of gloss on the rudder and had spent some time prepping the other areas I was intending to paint that day. The boat owner next to me arrived at about 2.30 and proceeded to sand his antiouling with his Aldi special.
Needless to say I was a little Pea'd off. It was waste of my time and a fine sunny day. If the guy has been to his boat for more than couple of hours over the winter then I'm exaggerating.
But that said I would have to say that I have never been in a yard where I have seen so much use of power sanders.
Thanks for all your informative comments.
Didn't equal one of Twister Kens Threads but wasn't intended in that way. Have a Great season everyone.

 

[G12]

I thought that school of thought died out decades ago.



And what about anybody else that happens to be walking past?

Simon my condescending friend, have you ever heard that assumption is the mother of f**kup?

Did I say I was somewhere busy with people walking past? I think if you reread my post you'll find that I mentioned dry sanding A/F. Nothing about where I was doing it. Assume nothing.
My reference to dust sheets was with a view to sandblasting or similar messy activities. You'll be shocked to know that I wasn't using any. Probably because there was nothing anywhere near me whatsoever which is why I didn't mind doing the job in the 1st place. I remember being grateful for this at the time actually!

What school of thought do you refer to? I challenge you to find a boatyard where there is no work going on that produces paint fumes, noise, styrene fumes when people are glassing......
Paint contains solvent, resins contains styrene, tools make noise. Fact.

 

[Dipper]

Most people in my club sand their old antifouling (either wet or dry). I'm one of the few that doesn't. The data sheets for International recommend that prior to painting 'Rinse with fresh water and allow to dry'. That's all. With the modern self-eroding antifoulings, build-up of excess paint shouldn't be a great problem. Or am I missing something?

 

[Lucky Duck]

<rant>

What school of thought do you refer to? I challenge you to find a boatyard where there is no work going on that produces paint fumes, noise, styrene fumes when people are glassing......
Paint contains solvent, resins contains styrene, tools make noise. Fact.

I took your original post to suggest that one should just accept conditions hazardous to health on the basis that a boatyard is a working environment. Apologies if that was not the case.

Fumes from working on GRP and paint may well be unavoidable (although my Employer requires water based paints to be used whenever possible) air bourne dust from dry sanding is entirely avoidable by following the manufactures' recommendations to wet sanding.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

4. These forums are also a hot-bed of people who make bold assertions based on ignorance. I chose to post on this thread because of the potentially harmful health and environmental effects of the point of view that you and some others were expressing. I have done that and so have nothing more to add.

You are right and since it does sound as if you have some real knowledge of the subject it would be a shame if you now took your bat and ball home.

You have said " Individual susceptibility varies greatly and is unpredictable." and I am sure this is right. But as with all "nasties" and indeed a lot of "goodies" ( salt for example where we die without any salt and die from too much) risk from antifoul dust isnt just a function of what the dust contains but also of exposure to it.

So the key question for most yotties is not " does the dust contain nasties?" but this - "does the annual dry sanding of the anti foul present a high level risk to the sanders health or is it really a fairly low level issue?"

Presumably somebody somewhere has blown anti foul dust at pigs or some other test animal. or is it a case of the anti foul makers saving test money and covering their arses by plastering warning labels on the product? They might just as well put "this product can kill" warnings on Saxa salt packets

 

[Lakesailor]

Your points are very valid and I have made them already, but have been shouted down by the "I'm an expert, I know, so there, brigade"
A once a year sanding down in your own property seems to have escalted into a cloud of virulent death encompassing the whole of the British Isles ( and Malta, it would seem).

Is it possible some posters could get a sense of proportion?

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

+1

never thought you'd be stuck for words Rigger





www.sailingscotty.com

 

[Zen Zero]

Your points are very valid and I have made them already, but have been shouted down by the "I'm an expert, I know, so there, brigade"
A once a year sanding down in your own property seems to have escalted into a cloud of virulent death encompassing the whole of the British Isles ( and Malta, it would seem).

Is it possible some posters could get a sense of proportion?

But not Italy, where the boatyards turn blue (or red, grey, green or black) and no-one seems to care.

I don't think that by wearing protective clothing, the bottom sanders are displaying, what was it, "a total disregard for the safety of others" (this sounds a little hyperbolic), but a desire not to get themselves into a disgusting mess whilst holding the sander in their own hands and crouching underneath their hulls. The people whose safety is being totally disregarded one assumes are not crouching underneath the same hull, close enough to grasp the sander, but minding their own businesses somewhere else in the boatyard: at a safe distance (?)The question is "how far is safe?".

The argument that they are ejecting poisonous airborne particles strikes me as weak since we all do that whenever we start an internal combustion engine.

 

[doug748]

This thread seems to be getting more rational as it develops, is this a first?

 

[Resolution]

Dry sanding

I/ve asked before but will ask again: has anyone tried using a professional wet & dry vacuum cleaner (eg the Makita 445X) together with a powered sander (like the Flex Giraffe long neck sander)?
I've seen these used in new buildings for sanding plaster and was amazed at how dust-free the air was, even in a closed room. The operator does not even need a face mask.
Now admittedly the plaster is much lighter and easier to sand than old antifoul, but the vacuum process would remove 90% of all the pollution problems discussed above.

(BTW, price for the above kit is around £800, so not something for a single private owner, but maybe for a professional or a club?)

 

[prv]

I/ve asked before but will ask again: has anyone tried using a professional wet & dry vacuum cleaner (eg the Makita 445X) together with a powered sander (like the Flex Giraffe long neck sander)?

Not those particular items, but note that pretty much all sanders now have a dust-extraction port on them to which you can connect a hoover (albeit sometimes requiring gaffer tape to make the joint). I did this with a Henry attached to a bog-standard B&Q disk sander when sanding some paint, and there was no visible dust in the air.

Pete

 

[Robin]

The safety debate IMO is relevant but it still remains that wet sanding large areas gives much better results with a smoother surface. Dry sanding gives a scratched up surface covered in dust which either needs wiping off or washing off before repainting. Best IMO is to use one of the ceiling/plastering swiveling sander heads on a pole and fitted with a grid type paper that doesn't clog and use this in conjunction with a hose to wash off the slurry created. I sanded the entire bottom of a 41 footer in a couple of hours on my own or 1.5hrs with SWMBO's help with the hose this way and stayed dry and relatively clean doing it.

 

[ukmctc]

It seems it happens at this time of year every year, in France now its banned, it all has tobe done with covers and trays, not allowed tobe washed away due to health and enviromental concerns.

You should really get a good commercial antifoul and then there is no need to touch it for 3-5 years.....lol

Over the last week I've watched the local boaties in Inverness out with their electric sanders, all suited up, plastering everyone elses boat with toxic dust, As it happens every year do you think we get used to it?

 

[Twister_Ken]

It seems it happens at this time of year every year, in France now its banned, it all has tobe done with covers and trays, not allowed tobe washed away due to health and enviromental concerns.

You should really get a good commercial antifoul and then there is no need to touch it for 3-5 years.....lol

Over the last week I've watched the local boaties in Inverness out with their electric sanders, all suited up, plastering everyone elses boat with toxic dust, As it happens every year do you think we get used to it?

Another good reason to a) use Coppercoat and b) stay afloat.

 

[G12]

I took your original post to suggest that one should just accept conditions hazardous to health on the basis that a boatyard is a working environment. Apologies if that was not the case.

Fumes from working on GRP and paint may well be unavoidable (although my Employer requires water based paints to be used whenever possible) air bourne dust from dry sanding is entirely avoidable by following the manufactures' recommendations to wet sanding.

Wouldn't it be great if someone made a decent electric sander that could be used inverted with a hose attachment for wet sanding..... Any designers out there?
I know you can dry sand and vacuum the dust off but there is always some that escapes in my experience!

 

[Jcorstorphine]

How about idiots who use shot blasting.

I had a situation where a commercial Shot Blaster was brought into the yard by one of the resident companies. The shot blasters erected an open mesh like screen round a yacht and proceeded to sand blast the hull realising clouds of white antifouling dust all over the yard.

When asked why had they used such a poor material they replied that the company who had employed them said that they should not use tarpaulins as they marked the hull hence the use of this useless material.

My boat, tools, engine, clothes and my lungs were all covered in white antifouling dust and I have spent this day cleaning up the boat.

What a bunch of numpties. !!!!!!!!

 

[Liamgsy]

OK what's safer?? Dry sanding the bottom or WET sanding with and ELECTRIC sander? I've got a lot of pits on my hull and I literally don't have a year spare to wet sand the hull down by hand ?‍. At £93 a month mooring fee and £90 a month hard standing fee on top... the boat isn't staying out long! I've literally just had the risers and manifolds done as part of my standard service. So having it striped back isn't an option this year either. My guess is to ignore all the craters and just paint it ?‍.

 

[rogerthebodger]

OK what's safer?? Dry sanding the bottom or WET sanding with and ELECTRIC sander?

Wet sand with a pneumatic sander driven by a remote compressor that can be electric or petrol engine driven