ARC and cruising

[PeterC]

This is my first post - hello.

We are intending to take part in the ARC next year or the following with three months in the med. before and twelve months cruising after.

We want to cruise in as much comfort as possible and will be two handed for much of the time, but will also have family and friends with us.

Having never owned a yacht over 40 foot before I am having great difficulty asssessing the practical differences between larger blue water crusiers. (I have raced larger yachts but I dont think my experience doing so is relevant as they are a very different craft).

I am very attracted to an Oyster 55. I am lead to believe the 55 is a superb sea boat and in terms of yachts between 50 and 60 feet will give blue water passages as comfortable as any, and a great deal more comfortable than most. In contrast I am also going to look at a Moody 49.

How will the sea keeping qualities of the 49 compare? How will these yachts compare in terms of long term live aboard? Are they of the size and comfort level where you could really live aboard for a reasonable length of time in comfort?

Our priorities are a yacht that will look after us really well in the full range of conditions that we can expect AND will give comfortable and reasonably quick passages. We want all the mod cons - or at least think we do. These both have air con, water makers, in mast roller furling, Gensets of course and good tankage. We think we want a washing machine as well.

I am very grateful for people's collected wisdom who have been there and done it or who have genuine experience of longer term cruising in yachts of this size and comfort range.

Thank you.

 

[PeterC]

Has anyone any knowledge of the Moody 49 or any other thoughts on my earlier post please.

 

[tcm]

Hurrah for PeterC - a thread about a decent boat on s'butt at last

What a fab plan peter. I am so pleased that you are looking at decent boats, whereas most hereabouts prefer their boats to have the same degree of comfort as a bus.

A washing machine will save tons of time schlepping around to launderettes, and absolute must if you have the space on a liveaboard that *isn't* actually a private floating dosshouse - albeit a homely dosshouse- as many of them are.

I'm afraid I am unconvinced of british boatbuilding - you would do well to acquant yourself with a somewhat wider and more advanced selection of craft at the main european show - at Dusseldorf in January. Van Dam, for example, knock the Oysters into the weeds. However, the Oyster social stuff is nice altho there again, there's loads of other social stuff anyway...

Incidentaly, at elevated boat lengths, it is much less easy to say that this boat is like this and that boat is like that - the rigs and almost everthing else can be different on the same boat. Also, a boat with dodgy generator is worse than any boat with a generator. Same goes fr airconditioning - yes, you need air conditioning, your car has airco and that's in the uk, your boat in med or carib *definitely* needs aircon, altho the bus-lovers will say you need none of this. They're lying of course.

I presume you plan to buy new. However, I wd strongly suggest you look at *just* second hand - boats lose a lot of value in the first year and the advantage s the boat is there, physical in front of you, most or all teething problems sorted, and no worries about the builder going bust taking your money with him.

One possible option might be a catamaran. I took this route. You get massive volume and less rolling on atlantic passages and flatter at anchor too (most of the carib you want to be out at anchor in cool breeze) and there's less "up and down" on a catamaran in the ordinary course of everyday living at anchor. If you live aboard, as a friend stingo says, you sail only one day in 7 or 8 at most - so the primary consideraton is what the boat is like at anchor. I rented a catamaran in tahiti to check this out, and it seems true. The downside of course is that almost all catamarans look more pig-ugly than almost all monohulls.

Anyways, there's a starter for you - tahiti and dusseldorf boat show, and praps look at just-not-new boats.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Someone once described a cruising life as "boat maintenance in foreign places."

Whatever you choose, make it as uncomplicated as possible. No point in having more toys than Hamleys, if mending the toys stops you sailing.

(PS - listen to TCM. Under that raddled exterior there's a knowledgeable bloke)

 

[Alefabay]

Hi,

conventional wisdom usually says to buy a boat big enough to maintain and also in dire circumstances, sail single handed. The bigger the boat the more inherent safety. However, this is not always true. I sailed single handed acrosss the Atlantic in a Prout Snowgoose Elite. 37ft Catamarran. Yes, I did have a small washing machine in the heads/shower cabin. Two autopilots. Radar and being lazy, two GPS. I did have a sextant as well. Can you tell already, I'm a belt, braces and string sailor.

My biggest problem crossing the pond was boredom. I wish that on everyone. As the contrary would mean that I had loads of problems. If you choose the right time of year to leave the Med, then crossing to the West Indies is a doddle.

I did it the easy way. Portugal-Teneriffe. Wait for the trades. Teneriffe Cape Verdi's. Christmas on local Cape Verdi Lobster and then after Christmas, set off. Didn't touch my twin Genoa's for 17 days until arriving in Tobago. Another advantage of a Cat; you don't need to pole the genny's out and my boat was unsinkable.

Go and have fun. Bon voyage.

 

[s/v moondancer]

Short handed

We sail a Tayana 55 short handed, (middle aged couple) and do not have problems except when we have to take the sails off...an 1100 sq ft jib is a big sail to get off and to the sailmakers.

I sailed an Oyster 49 from Azores to Portugal and I was injured when thrown across the 'ballroom' of a salon. Our 55 has a compact salon with lots of hand holds and small window... we feel more secure when the waves go right over the coach roof.

Good luck

 

[tudorsailor]

I sailed an Oyster 49 from Azores to Portugal and I was injured when thrown across the 'ballroom' of a salon. Our 55 has a compact salon with lots of hand holds and small window... we feel more secure when the waves go right over the coach roof.

Good luck

Oooooooooo a Ballroom huh? I have an Oyster 49 and feel it is spacious without being too big to handle. The saloon is not exactly a ballroom, but I gues it depends on what you are comparing it to. Oyster do have big saloon windows, but they are incredibly heavy and designed to withstand big waves

SWMBO and I, can handle her perfectly between the two of us.

BTW you need to change the spelling of remember in your tag line - or am I missing a joke?

Tudordoc

 

[thedoc]

long passages

You will want something to do on long passages. Repairing water makers is a good one but you may want to hand wash clothes and reef your sails with a bit of physical effort. Surely you dont need air con?

 

[jwilson]

In my experience, on other peoples expensive boats, marine aircon is the most unreliable bit of kit known to man, except possibly for lifebuoy lights. Lovely when it works, even better when the genset that powers it also works.

I've met too many people doing "upmarket cruising" sat waiting in marinas and yacht clubs grumbling about non-delivery of spares, engineers not turning up, etc. In contrast the poor cruisers sail on and hold the boat together with cunningly applied string and duck tape.

Buying new is not a guarantee that things will work. If you buy a new Ford Ka or a Toyota anything it will probably go 50,000 miles without a problem, even if you never changed the oil, but then they have built hundreds of thousands of them. They might have built 50 or 100 of your boat, changing something every time they built one.

 

[snowleopard]

You will want something to do on long passages. Repairing water makers is a good one but you may want to hand wash clothes and reef your sails with a bit of physical effort. Surely you dont need air con?

SWMBO thought I had invented a new religion. I spent many hours kneeling in front of my watermaker muttering 'Oh God, Oh God!'

Some Americans we met found that shutting the hatches and putting the aircon on allowed them to sleep in places where we were kept awake by loud music from waterside bars.

In the Caribbean a 50 footer seem pretty average. We felt like poor relations in our little 40 footer.

 

[DickB]

Hi Peter,

I have an Oyster 485, and it is heavy, relatively quick but needs 15knots to get going, and a very comfortable ride. She sits low down and gets a lot of water over the deck, but the motion is very easy. No slamming at all and in the saloon under passage the motion is very light (near the c of G etc). Loads of room for two but room enough practically for three more although I have seven berths including the saloon pilot berth.

Oysters are very strongly built and before buying her I did the ARC with my brother in his yacht. There were loads of Oysters on the Arc and if I had endless cash and time I would get a 56'. A much bigger hull but still doable with two on board for most trips.

As regards the 55, they are getting a bit older now and the ones I have seen have been quite tatty and tired. Some have been used for charter and showit!!! (12 berths ect etc..)

Before I boughtthe Oyster I was fixated on the Moody 46 (47), however they are very beamy and I suspect are not quite as quick, but certainly very comfortable. Take a look at both and look atthe front deck of both too... You will see what I mean.

Anyway, good luck in your search.

Dick

 

[TQA]

55 feet is a LOT of boat for two people. No problem till something goes wrong. We crossed in the early 90s on a 38 footer with 4 on board and while not in luxury were certainly comfortable. We did have huge water tanks 250 galls luxury in the Caribbean and showers on the transatlantic.

But when we lost the spi over the side when the snap shackle broke it took all 4 of us to get it back on board in the trade wind swell and at one point we were contemplating cutting it free and saying goodbye.

Washing machine ! ?? I suppose if you have a ginormous watermaker you could use it at anchor. If in a marina why not use their laundry? Even pay for a service wash and get it back folded.

If you are looking at an Oyster 55 then a big cat is also in your budget. Very comfortable cruising platforms and they have loads of space.

But as others have said, the more complicated your boat the more time you will spend fixing things and waiting for bits. KISS is good IMHO.

 

[boatmike]

Hi,

conventional wisdom usually says to buy a boat big enough to maintain and also in dire circumstances, sail single handed. The bigger the boat the more inherent safety. However, this is not always true. I sailed single handed acrosss the Atlantic in a Prout Snowgoose Elite. 37ft Catamarran. Yes, I did have a small washing machine in the heads/shower cabin. Two autopilots. Radar and being lazy, two GPS. I did have a sextant as well. Can you tell already, I'm a belt, braces and string sailor.

My biggest problem crossing the pond was boredom. I wish that on everyone. As the contrary would mean that I had loads of problems. If you choose the right time of year to leave the Med, then crossing to the West Indies is a doddle.

I did it the easy way. Portugal-Teneriffe. Wait for the trades. Teneriffe Cape Verdi's. Christmas on local Cape Verdi Lobster and then after Christmas, set off. Didn't touch my twin Genoa's for 17 days until arriving in Tobago. Another advantage of a Cat; you don't need to pole the genny's out and my boat was unsinkable.

Go and have fun. Bon voyage.

Dream on! I currently have an Elite which I built myself. With a LOT of additional built in bouyancy AND additional watertight bulkheads I managed to achieve a THEORETICAL damaged stability calculation that suggested the boat would just stay afloat with one hull holed in calm conditions. With cruising gear on board, especially with such things as washing machines, a standard Elite will certainly not be unsinkable. It will stay afloat a lot longer than a mono with a gert big iron thing bolted to the bottom, but unsinkable.... nooooo.... Ask Scilly Pete!

 

[happyboater69]

Firstly I'm a powerboater so I am nervously posting in the Yachtie section!!

The only thing I really know about saily boats is that go for the smallest one that offers all you want, so in your case the 49 will be easier to handle particularly if just a few of you.

I have emailed my pal a link ti this thread he has a Moody 49, I seem to think he bought in new about 2004 time just as I was selling by old boat. He still has it noew and keeps it in the Med and sails a lot on, in comparision i have changed my boat twice since then so he obviosuly likes it and I know he did the ARC in to again a couple of years back.

Hopefully he will see the link and post up he views as an owner. reading this thread it is clear just how much further afield your yacht can take you.

Somes like a bit of a once in a life time trip so whatever you go for have a great time

 

[tcm]

Um, those who say a small boat is easier/better - are WRONG imho.

Within quite wide limits a big boat has space for equipment to be fitted properly and maintained easily, to have normal sized gear rather than minaturised (and less reliable), nice and airy with proper house-style headroom. At anchor it moves less for comfier sleep, and you get the easiest spots in a marina and lots of help - even though bigger boats go where they're pointed rather than get pushed sideways like smaler boats (due to windage increasing proportional with the square of the length, whereas inertia/weight goes up with the CUBE of the length).

Moving about on board a boat gets easier and easier as it gets longer too - you can break into a run to the bow on/around 70 footer. Ok, 70 footer the fenders bit hefty but there elctric everything, and space for a spare - you can have two generators, two watermakers and so on on bigger boats - and Oyster have done twin engine boats in the past if you really do want a boat that looks like I made it rather than a Nordia Van Dam (eg Marmalade of Manchester) where you wonder how some joinery was made it's so fab. Of course, all the same bigness arguments apply to a catamaran and larger catamarans are just fantastico, with tennis courts and er well, maybe...

The only problem with a bigger boat is that it costs more loot, but peterC is obviously fine in that regard, and he can't take it with him. Well, he can if he gets a safe built in under the cabin sole...

Well, you only gona do it once. Have a look at just-second hand massive boats - that cost the same as the brand new 50-55 footer. And of course, they fitted out by people who less penny pinchy, so much more likely to have loads of gear, and spares, and etc etc.

 

[bbilly]

Listen to TMC. Having the money I'd go for a cat any day. Cruising through the leewards at 9 kts with a cold beer on the table and room for 40 guests (if your sociable) is another planet. Forget rusty knee joints and leaning this way or that it's a much more civilized way of enjoying boating and having a gin tonic (or tea if you prefer) with friends.

 

[mocruising]

What size is best.

I went through this six years ago when I sold my warrior 40. I took the advice from the forum and purchased a HR 46 which is actually 48' on deck plus the davits plus the bow sprit. I do sail the boat single handed some of the time without a problem, I have no mechanical sail handling although we do have two electric genoa winches. We are now in the process of upgrading again to a 55-60 footer with the right equipment on board I see no problem sailing alone on a vessel this size, even entering or leaving confined marinas provided of course the wind is not too strong.

 

[doris]

Does size really matter?

Gosh what a smashing thread. None of the usual moaning fom the MAB brigade that a 32ft long keeler is the only way to go!

I have just been on a friends 46ft boat in the med. They got that in order to go across the pond, then on the Oz. Before that they had a 40footer. Their view was that for the med the 40 footer (Najad) was perfect and that the 46 footer is well too big. However for west of Gibralter the bigger boat was needed hence the 46 footer. Porblem you have is that different cruising areas need completely different types of boat so you are always having to compromise. I must say I wouldn't dream of going over 45 feet unless I was always going to have 4 on board but then I currently have a 39 footer and sail in N Europe.

Certainly I agree wholeheartedly with the comment about buying a sorted boat rather than new. Rasseys, Swans, Oysters et al have snagging lists that are ulmost unbelievable until you have a mate experiencing it first hand.

I envy you your conundrum. Bets of luck.

ps. Chatting to the boss of Berthons the other day she mentioned that they have clients moving away from the expensive posh boats to the big Bennys for cruising. Simple systems that do not go wrong and all the right boxes ticked. (Like the Ford Ka comment...they build lots of them)

 

[tcm]

excellent point Doris, the benny57 must have put a dent in Oyster sales, everything an Oystr can do and quite a bit that it can"t....

 

[doris]

the benny57 must have put a dent in Oyster sales, everything an Oystr can do and quite a bit that it can"t....

OK you've got me going. I am a fan of cheap funtionality but what are the bits that Oysters and other posh boats can't do? Apart, that is, from leaving enuf cash left over to buy a cottage in France, a flat in London and a new car.