Apple or Android as your smartphone or tablet OS?

[snooks]

Comrade, might I suggest you go back an read my review of smartphone chart plotters in Yachting Monthly, in there memory map (was becoming available) and Navionics said it was available on Android. At the time of writing that was correct.

I wasn't ignoring the Android charting software, because there was none, except Navionics.

Ps...You might be happy to know that IPC have produced an Android only app

It for Nuts!

 

[Colvic Watson]

I don't understand how computers or smartphones work, that's Apple's fault cos I had my first one (a Performa 475) in 1998 and have used them ever since. I've also never had to learn how a smartphone works because I have an iPhone. I blame Steve Jobs RIP, his stuff is so damn intuitive. We have Navionics on the iPads and the kids follow plots and make routes on those. Every Apple except my current iPhone and previous iPad has been second hand, I'm typing this on a 5 year old LCD iMac I brought into work because the 1 year old Windows machine kept breaking down. I know Apple requires a single way of doing stuff and that will drive some people bananas - understood - but when that single way is a way that just damn works, I kind like it because it gives me more time for other more fun stuff than altering parameters or stuff you do with non-Apple gear.

 

[yesod]

Ps...You might be happy to know that IPC have produced an Android only app

It for Nuts!

tells us everything we need to know about android users......

 

[prv]

Well look at that - it makes a smartphone look like a proper computer. Trouble is, there's all that new-fangled stuff underneath.

Ah, but go another layer down and you'll find a proper computer again underneath. Ok, not your kind of proper computer (it's Unix rather than z/OS) but still a good terminal-accessed pedigree (albeit vt100 rather than 3270).

Pete

 

[dunedin]

So let me just destroy the iPC-Apple love-in with data rather than your mac-centric fantasy (and I forgive you 'cos your a mac-head, and it has already been shown that mac-heads are blindly loyal).

Q3 2011 smartphone data from Gartner (industry respected)
- Android have 52.5% of market for smartphones
- Apple is third with 15% (behind Symbian)

Latest data / opinion on tablet sales (Jan 31 2012)
- Apple has 58%
- Android has 39% and is increasing rapidly

Gartner estimate (Q2 2011) that Apple OS had 10.7 of computer usage share (link to article in wiki)

Good try Comrade Red. And I agree that Gartner data is undoubtedly some of the best informed in the market. We use them extensively and highly reputable.

But don't expect facts to get in the way of a debate about rival "religions", for which actual statistics will be like water off ducks backs

 

[Simondjuk]

What should be compared is iPhone versus any other single phone. iPhone would win by miles.

Ok, let's compare iPhone against other single phones.

Comparing it to a 1990s Motorola Star Tac, the iPhone I tried most recently lost by miles. It was next to useless in its primary function; making telephone calls.

Comparing it to a Nokia N80 that was two years old at the time, the iPhone 1 I tried lost on lack of GPS, lack of 3G, lack of MMS and, most amazingly of all, the omission of cut and paste.

 

[deuc02]

Ok, let's compare iPhone against other single phones.

Comparing it to a 1990s Motorola Star Tac, the iPhone I tried most recently lost by miles. It was next to useless in its primary function; making telephone calls.

Comparing it to a Nokia N80 that was two years old at the time, the iPhone 1 I tried lost on lack of GPS, lack of 3G, lack of MMS and, most amazingly of all, the omission of cut and paste.

Can't really comment on the pros and con of android vs apple as have been an apple convert for a while now but must say i'm very impressed with your knowlede of different mobile phones. Reckon you could give most 13 year olds a run for their money there.

 

[Simondjuk]

Don't be daft! The typical 13 year old who rates image over substance wouldn't be seen dead with, or have a clue about anything but an iPhone.

It's simply that I haven't been brainwashed into believing that iStuff is the be all and end all, so have tried out different things each year when Orange say they want to give them to me. Having tried them all, I can safely say that at the present time, Android knocks the socks of every other mobile OS there is or has been.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Well I am not doing anything to the Email application, I do have both pop and IMAP, but there is no way to save attachments and it refuses to recognise any epub applications as epub helpers. I am very computer literate and if I can' get it to work goodness knows how most of the public are. You obviously have a newer version of Andriod than is installed on this "new at Christmas" tablet this one is running 3.1.05.5.0006

Take it back then, because what you've been given is not Android 3.1. On mine I simply press the attachment icon and I get a choice of save or open. If I haven't installed an ePub reader then it says it can't display the ePub file when I try to open it, whether from the file or the mail client. After installing an ePub reader I set it as the default app for ePubs (it prompted me) and that was it.

If you want to see how good the browser on Android is go to www.johnlewis.com and compare it to an iPad.

Just tried it on a 10" screen running Android 3.1 and a 5" screen running Android 2.3 and I got a correctly formatted page on all three browsers on each device. Now go and look at www.hunton.co.uk on your iPad and tell me how you get on...

We used to run PC's and every now and again I would get a phone call that someone's machine was going slow and unusable. I would have to re-load windows from scratch, try to find the correct drivers for every component often the ones that came with the computer would not be compatible with the latest version of windows. It would almost take a day out of my fife to re-load a computer from scratch and re-configure. Contrast that with the macs which lasted 9 years without need for replacement, which do not get viruses, which do not start going slower and slower from the day they are installed and hardly every need re-booting. But the best I have left for last, once I install a Mac I never have to go back to sort anything out, I have zero maintenance time. The hardware does cost more but they last so long and to be perfectly honest time is money and the Macs do not require any of my time. I am sure that the total cost of ownership is much lower. Mac/OS was a previous OS from at least 10 years ago and has no place in this discussion as you are not comparing it to DOS.

If you can use 9 year old hardware for the purpose for which it was originally intended then you massively over-specced in the first place and wasted a lot of money. I have 9 year old H/W in place at home (not at work, it's not cost-efficient in a large data-centre) but it's been relegated to doing things like running firewalls.

You need to learn how to re-image windows machines - it should take 2 to 3 hours at the very most (during which time you'll be doing something else). Probably 10 to 20 minutes needed at the key board - and that's without a VDI. If you have a VDI then it's usually minutes at the most, normally seconds.

I have nothing against the tablet I have it is just that it is horrid because it is not much good at what it is supposed to do. Your Android machine may be better supported than mine and it may work for you but lots of people will have the same problems I have and worse. One of the things I like about my tablet is it has things like an sdcard reader built in. However have you seen the directory structure of Android AAGH it looks like Linux lots of meaningless directories called things like .android_secure .yesmobee video videos etc etc when you are trying to open a file it is a nightmare trying to find where it has been saved to. Most of these directories should be hidden and should not show up in applications. The user experience is horrid.

It is Linux so it's not surprising it looks like it. I don't know what tablet you have but surely you know where you saved something? I actually like that I can see all the directories on mine but I have to make it show me as it prompts me when I drop into the system directories.

I am not a "Mac fanboy" I have installed PC's Macs then PC's again and now Mac's again. There is no doubt that the Macs are better in all departments apart form initial cost. In the old days software support was lacking but now that really is not the case. Even corporate software is being ported to the Macs. I think that we will see a huge uptake in corporate use as more enterprise software becomes Mac compatible.

As a corporate person I can assure that Macs are not making any inroads into the Corporate or Enterprise market except in the mobile workspace (and then it's very limited). TOC for a Mac is horrendous compared to Wintel or Linux desktops. In fact the future is almost certainly VDI and this largely Windows based simple because it would cost a fortune to migrate users.

 

[Supine Being]

As a corporate person I can assure that Macs are not making any inroads into the Corporate or Enterprise market except in the mobile workspace (and then it's very limited). TOC for a Mac is horrendous compared to Wintel or Linux desktops. In fact the future is almost certainly VDI and this largely Windows based simple because it would cost a fortune to migrate users.

I would go along with that. In fact I recently spoke to someone at an insurance industry tech conference from a companies that was one of the first to start doling out iPads. They are phasing them out in favour of Android tabs as they are just too hard to work with at an enterprise level. Remember, it's not your device, it's Steve's. As long as you only do the sort of stuff that Steve sanctions, you'll get along fine. Macs at serious enterprise level? Gercha!

Similarly in my organisation, we're not looking at iPhones for the next generation of company smartphones, and for the same reasons. That doesn't make them bad devices, of course. In fact it can be a positive thing as long as you're prepared to be restricted in your choices and pay through the nose.

 

[lustyd]

Just tried it on a 10" screen running Android 3.1 and a 5" screen running Android 2.3 and I got a correctly formatted page on all three browsers on each device. Now go and look at www.hunton.co.uk on your iPad and tell me how you get on...

Looks fine on the iPhone?

You need to learn how to re-image windows machines - it should take 2 to 3 hours at the very most (during which time you'll be doing something else). Probably 10 to 20 minutes needed at the key board - and that's without a VDI. If you have a VDI then it's usually minutes at the most, normally seconds.

No, YOU need to learn this. Using modern tools on a well configured network this should take under 30 minutes and no time at the keyboard.

As a corporate person I can assure that Macs are not making any inroads into the Corporate or Enterprise market except in the mobile workspace (and then it's very limited). TOC for a Mac is horrendous compared to Wintel or Linux desktops. In fact the future is almost certainly VDI and this largely Windows based simple because it would cost a fortune to migrate users.

As a consultant to corporate persons I can assure you that Apple are in fact catching on like wildfire in the corporate world. We have banks who are installing wireless on the network just so the CEO can use an iPad to read mail. Apple have also added full AD support and the Mac can now be fully deployed and managed using SCCM and group policy. Using VMware View or Citrix XenDesktop staff can also now use their own devices to work from, and many are choosing Apple

 

[snooks]

Don't be daft! The typical 13 year old who rates image over substance wouldn't be seen dead with, or have a clue about anything but an iPhone.

Tell that to mates daughter who has a blackberry...actually had a blackberry because it was so undesirable that it got nicked

It all BBM with the kids nowadays...apparently

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Looks fine on the iPhone?


No, YOU need to learn this. Using modern tools on a well configured network this should take under 30 minutes and no time at the keyboard.



As a consultant to corporate persons I can assure you that Apple are in fact catching on like wildfire in the corporate world. We have banks who are installing wireless on the network just so the CEO can use an iPad to read mail. Apple have also added full AD support and the Mac can now be fully deployed and managed using SCCM and group policy. Using VMware View or Citrix XenDesktop staff can also now use their own devices to work from, and many are choosing Apple

Hunton was flash only, they've just changed
What I need to learn is how you can put a PC on the network and log in without being at the keyboard. What you need to learn is that large enteprises don'thave well configured networks - they change too quickly, hence a build can take two to three hours. A large part of that is hard drive encryption.
We have execs using iPads too. They are in a tiny majority. To suggest Apple are catching on like wild fire is comical. Even Apple aren't pretending that.

 

[zikzik]

There has been some real c**p written in this thread. What an emotive subject it is!

I don't know who else uses macs in business, but we use nearly all macs in a manufacturing business with 1200 employees including sales and marketing in maybe 10 countries. I bought the first iMac in 1999 or early 2000 for myself and hundreds since. The only pc's are doing accounts work - lack of available good accounts packages - cnc machines, which run custom made written programs, not ms windows and CAD design software on Windows . All the company mobiles are now iPhones, replacing ITC touch or blackberries and 50 or so iPads.

Initial motivation was the cost of ms software licences, so we used open office which is compatible. Once we realised the security aspect and found how easily users started doing work with them we expanded them. We wanted them working on their machines, not clustering around software problems.

We often used to discuss the costs attached, but actually we used to have 4 IT guys back in pc days, we have one now and, although I am semi-retired now, I don't think it is ever discuss now and certainly have no plans to change.

Remember, Windows was not as stable back then as now. Apple hardware reliability has been good except laptop battery life, which is probably common with all.

On the iOS verses Android front. I have never used an android device so I can't compare. For our business, it is still likely Android will be proved as stolen IP with law suits pending. If so workarounds will make for less compatibility. We know what its like to have someone steal your ideas. So we will pass on Android for now. and stick with that we know works

 

[lustyd]

What I need to learn is how you can put a PC on the network and log in without being at the keyboard. What you need to learn is that large enteprises don'thave well configured networks - they change too quickly, hence a build can take two to three hours. A large part of that is hard drive encryption.
.

Why are you logging in just to install the PC? if you are on a network of any size the OS should be deployed zero touch and so should the apps - the admin shouldn't even be near the PC unless they are physically putting it on the desk. Encryption on any modern PC is faster than disk write and network transfer so isn't the majority of the time. Windows deployment using WIM should take around 30 minutes - the user can then log in while their apps are being deployed which shouldn't take too much longer. If you use App-V they will load on demand before they are even installed completely.
I do know about enterprise networks - I architect these along with big storage systems on a daily basis. Admittedly only up to around 15000 seats but that depends what you consider a "large network". If you don't have a well configured network send me a PM and I'll try to offer some advice.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Why are you logging in just to install the PC? if you are on a network of any size the OS should be deployed zero touch and so should the apps - the admin shouldn't even be near the PC unless they are physically putting it on the desk. Encryption on any modern PC is faster than disk write and network transfer so isn't the majority of the time. Windows deployment using WIM should take around 30 minutes - the user can then log in while their apps are being deployed which shouldn't take too much longer. If you use App-V they will load on demand before they are even installed completely.
I do know about enterprise networks - I architect these along with big storage systems on a daily basis. Admittedly only up to around 15000 seats but that depends what you consider a "large network". If you don't have a well configured network send me a PM and I'll try to offer some advice.

15,000 seats is a large office or campus to us I'm afraid. 100K+ is enterprise. We are over 300K seats (instances really as some users need more than one device/instance) in around 40+ countries and I have no idea how many sites. We do use App-V but I don't consider apps as part of imaging except for a few compulsory items. In practice most hands-on re-imaging is laptops but, even with desktops, it needs to be switched on - not guaranteed with our user-base sometimes :-( Anyway rather than invest in improving a Wintel desktop environment we prefer migrate to VDI (still Wintel-based on the server side). In this type of organisation it's a massive effort even to get to just one operating system and the security and compliance side is a nightmare (in fact a particular compliance issue is one reason we have to be hands-on for many instances - there's physical work involved) - one reason things like iPhones and iPads get little traction.

 

[lustyd]

15,000 seats is a large office or campus to us I'm afraid. 100K+ is enterprise. We are over 300K seats (instances really as some users need more than one device/instance) in around 40+ countries and I have no idea how many sites. We do use App-V but I don't consider apps as part of imaging except for a few compulsory items. In practice most hands-on re-imaging is laptops but, even with desktops, it needs to be switched on - not guaranteed with our user-base sometimes :-( Anyway rather than invest in improving a Wintel desktop environment we prefer migrate to VDI (still Wintel-based on the server side). In this type of organisation it's a massive effort even to get to just one operating system and the security and compliance side is a nightmare (in fact a particular compliance issue is one reason we have to be hands-on for many instances - there's physical work involved) - one reason things like iPhones and iPads get little traction.

Then you should be aware - VDI has the exact same challenges, it just costs more for the hardware. Zero touch means that you don't have to go and switch on the device, products such as SCCM do that for you and can do the build at night time. If you're really struggling with this I'd be happy to come and explain further?

 

[Seven Spades]

Take it back then, because what you've been given is not Android 3.1. On mine I simply press the attachment icon and I get a choice of save or open. If I haven't installed an ePub reader then it says it can't display the ePub file when I try to open it, whether from the file or the mail client. After installing an ePub reader I set it as the default app for ePubs (it prompted me) and that was it.




Just tried it on a 10" screen running Android 3.1 and a 5" screen running Android 2.3 and I got a correctly formatted page on all three browsers on each device. Now go and look at www.hunton.co.uk on your iPad and tell me how you get on...




If you can use 9 year old hardware for the purpose for which it was originally intended then you massively over-specced in the first place and wasted a lot of money. I have 9 year old H/W in place at home (not at work, it's not cost-efficient in a large data-centre) but it's been relegated to doing things like running firewalls.

You need to learn how to re-image windows machines - it should take 2 to 3 hours at the very most (during which time you'll be doing something else). Probably 10 to 20 minutes needed at the key board - and that's without a VDI. If you have a VDI then it's usually minutes at the most, normally seconds.




It is Linux so it's not surprising it looks like it. I don't know what tablet you have but surely you know where you saved something? I actually like that I can see all the directories on mine but I have to make it show me as it prompts me when I drop into the system directories.




As a corporate person I can assure that Macs are not making any inroads into the Corporate or Enterprise market except in the mobile workspace (and then it's very limited). TOC for a Mac is horrendous compared to Wintel or Linux desktops. In fact the future is almost certainly VDI and this largely Windows based simple because it would cost a fortune to migrate users.

I can't take it back it was a gift. It is not my fault but there is no save button in fact there is no paper-clip! I presume the manufacturer has shipped this unit with different versions of the apps to yours. I have just navigated to the epub doc using file manager, I then clicked on the doc all 4 readers were then shown with the dialogue "open using" I ticked make default and chose one of the readers. Then I emailed myself the epub dock again. Clicked it "There is no installed application that can open this document...."


The John Lewis website is trying to guess what device I am using and is re-formatting the pages to fit, only they have got it wrong and the site is unreadable. Tghis isn't the fault of Andriod, but if you buy an Andriod you need to be are that this sort of thing happens.

The old iMacs were the basic model and worked fine, needed no support from me ever. They weren't over spec'd we just didn't have an escalating need for more and more powerful computers, we were still using the same software. The point is, if I had installed Windows 2000 the chances of them still running in 2009 without any attention or re-install is very low.

Why should I need to know how to re-image Windows machines, is there a problem that means that they need to be re-imaged? I don't touch the Macs at all.

Well I think that Macs are BSD Linux underneath but I don't need to know that. I not an idiot, but some applications in Andriod do not tell you where they have saved to, can't blame the OS for that but it is a the case.



Android is powerful but it is not as user friendly as ios. I do not like Apples very restrictive control of app deployment as it does cause problems if you want to make a private application because you have to deploy it via they app store and I don't really know why this is the case, I believe it is so that they can make sure they get a cut of the revenue stream if there is any. There is no right answer to which is best because as always it depends who you are and what you want to do. The OP wanted to know what is the best system, and I think he will find it easier to do what he wants to do with an iPad rather than an Android tablet. I can't imagine why any end user would want to see a Linux file structure, it just gets in the way.

 

[aquaholic]

Don't be daft! The typical 13 year old who rates image over substance wouldn't be seen dead with, or have a clue about anything but an iPhone.

It's simply that I haven't been brainwashed into believing that iStuff is the be all and end all, so have tried out different things each year when Orange say they want to give them to me. Having tried them all, I can safely say that at the present time, Android knocks the socks of every other mobile OS there is or has been.

I don't understand why but you sound as if you have some kind of vendetta against apple and their owners......it's a bit like listening to kids in playground arguing over the differences between an Xbox and a play station.

Why you need to refer to a time when you tried an iPhone 1 which is light years behind their current products is beyond me.

And what's all this about being brain washed!!
Jesus, cant you just accept that some people like the idea of having something that's good quality feels nice and more importantly works every time and is easy to use?

I am not saying that some android phones are not good quality or that they dont work well, but the apple stuff is just nice and easy,and let's be honest there is nothing that looks or feels like an apple.

We are not all tech heads and interested in gigabytes, processor speed etc. I have no real interest in that and just want something that does what I want when I want.

It's obviously a jealousy issue as I hear the same arguments at work.... The android user will 9 times out of 10 ask why someone has bought an iPhone instead of the latest Samsung, or why would you pay £400 for an iPad and not £250 for a blackberry play book......

I have come to the conclusion that some android users have too much time on their hands which seems strange as they must spend most of it looking for articles and polls in attempt to defend their decision not to buy apple......

 

[Simondjuk]

The thing you overlook is that I'm just an Android user at the present time. Should something better come along, I'll switch to that.

Apple users on the other hand, often seem to be converts. They adopt the brand and follow it with an almost religious obsession. Look at those who wait all night on the pavement just to be the first through the door of a new store. It's bizarre.

What I've challenged in my posts is the notion some hold that iPhone is leaps and bounds ahead of everything else, yet provide no reasons as to why. They just believe, it seems.

If Apple make an iPhone that's the best thing available at the time, I'll use it. On the two occasions I've had a try though, the product has been lacking against the competition. That's where I drew comparisons from, actual experience, not some poll. It was also in response to someone who claimed outright that iPhone was miles ahead, without foundation. One of the believers who queues in the rain all night perhaps.

Lastly, if iPhone works for you, great. As perhaps a more demanding user, it hasn't for me. A shiny case doesn't cut it. This is a discussion where opinions are given and often differ. If a tongue in cheek comment inflames you, perhaps you should take what you read with a slightly larger pinch of salt.