Anyone Know more about Peters Opal?

I think the biggest danger at this moment is that the premises/land that they own/rent is sold off to property companies who will build expensive flats etc. the loss of yacht/boat facilities is a real problem and one that the current planning system seems to encourage, they are trying to build on brownfield sites.

Planning departments should take account of this, property built in areas with direct wsater access are not and never will be "affordable housing". The marine economy is dependent upon the business that exist to service boats, any attempt to build on such sites must be opposed.
 
I have never dealt with Peters and have no views either way about them.

What I do think is that this is the first casualty in what is a reducing UK marine retail sector. I think there will be more as boat distribution reduces to fit the demand. Peters must have had fairly high overheads and maybe smaller oprerations will face the downturn with greater flexibility and survive to become the market leaders of tomorrow.

I have always thought Red is an issue but I do not think its full impact will strike until the first time bast have to fill up at well over £1 per gallon - then that effect will be devastating. That combined with the interest rates hike and the true bills arriving home for Mr. Bown's spending is going to hit the UK MoBo sector very hard.

Fairline, Princess etc will sruvive OK as much of their market is export but smaller specilaist MoBo manufacturers that supply mainly the UK market may be hit hard.

I amy be wrong on all the above - its just my opinion.
 
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And putting two and two together and coming up with five. I wonder if the red diesel issue has effected boat sales and worsened the situation they were in?
Could be the first casualties of the stupid tax hike??

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Frankly Kev, I don't think so. Their sales team is just worse than useless. They recently held an open day for new boats, and we walked up and down the sales pontoon, and onto everything from Rodmans to Azimut via Sealine. Now we are known to be very compulsive, and I like the Sealine F42/5. Did anyone try to sell us anything? No, and worse than that, after one hour, with several other prospective customers doing the same thing, NOT ONE "salesman" came out to talk to any of us.

More recently, someone we know well who is in the market for a bigger boat right now asked to see a boat (£150K's worth) they had for sale (brokerage). The sales guy had no idea where in the marina it was, and his colleague when asked, simply shrugged his shoulders and said "I havn't a clue" . Our friend walked out.

Their FD must bear some responsibility too. We had our boat lifted, blocked off and relaunched (£560) in MARCH. We recieved the bill three weeks ago. Another still has not had his bill 7 months on!! I fear there are some people there, that have accelerated the company's downfall.

The regular guys, the engineers, boatyard workers etc are all great, and I feel very sorry for them. I do fear there is nothing left to sell on apart from a bit of stock, 'cos I'm told all the buildings belong to Premier, and their trucks, cars and vans are rumoured to be leased.

What a shame.
 
Yes it was, it was in Saxon Wharf eairler this year going through some sort of prep work before leaving to its new owner and base.
 
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Even if they had a client account - it is no real protection.

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The Administrators claim they are still trading, so does that mean the guy who (allegedly) paid a £45K deposit on a new boat a few days ago will get his money back, or indeed the boat itself??

On another point, as Premier own all the buildings (in Chichester anyway), what would stop them from opening the whole lot up under the Premier banner, and give most of their jobs back? Seems they would not have to buy Peters to achieve that.
 
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Yes, but Premier don't own the right to sell the boats, or the spares or sevice the items, that contract is held by PetersOpal and they would need to buy the company to do that.

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Yes, I can see that now. However, if a Company is insolvent, does that mean the likes of Bavaria can tear up any agreement and hand it to Premier?
 
Premiere may own the building but they have sold the lease. Even if Peters have not been paying the lease they can not rip it up and take back possession. In reality the Administrators now own the lease.

For the company to be in Administration somebody had to pull the plug and start administration procedures. My guess is that it was a major creditor...not the bank. And my second guess is that Premier could be the ones who forced the administrators in for non payment of rent?

As the company is in Administration then any assets are now protected. Any deposits paid will become normal (not priority creditors) If they owe £29m and have £10m Liquid assets everyone will get 33p in the pound so if you put a £45k deposit down expect £15k back. However there may be priority creditors (HMR&C) for one! This will dilute the assets and the payment. In most cases of Admin istration creditors get 8-10p in the pound.

What an absolute mess!

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Yes, but Premier don't own the right to sell the boats, or the spares or sevice the items, that contract is held by PetersOpal and they would need to buy the company to do that.

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If the company is insolvent, they are hardly likely to exercise that right. Premier could take on those suppliers and provide servicing or ultimately by PO very cheaply. The supply contracts will be two way deals of course. If PO are protected suppliers or service centres under contract they would therefore be 'contracted' to provide a service and pay suppliers within terms, surely.
 
I think this is yet another lesson in why a client account is simply not the protection some may think it is.

I have had a recent experience where even though the broker was on a zero commission deal and was unable to pay all its debts promptly to me, it insisted on selling my boat using its client account for the deposit. I asked for any deposit to be paid into an escrow account that allowed only the brokers signature on it if the money was being paid back to the buyer otherwise two signatures - the broker in the end point blank refused in writing to agree not even putting forward any reason or being prepared to put forward any reason. It was a case of over my dead body and I then sold the boat myself without involving the broker rather than risk the 'client' account.

I frankly do not feel sorry for Peters in this. I feel sorry for the employees and the creditors but most of all I feel sorry for the boaters who stand to lose not only their deposits but maybe in some cases their stage payments etc.

I think that there is always a danger of a dealer short of money will misuse the deposits and stage payments so be very careful when buying.

My advice from now on when selling a boat is that anyone using a broker should insist on an escrow account and if the broker refuses do not use them.
 
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The first aim of the administrators will be the continuation of the company.

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But in order to achieve that creditors will lose out.
 
Most likely .... wouldn't it be far more sensible if the governement agencies stood at the back of the queue - meaning that at least some creditors (who could probably do with the money) got paid first.... £100k or even £1 mil will have no significant impact on the government coffers but could mean the difference between staying solvent or going bust to a company ... and drastic impact on a customer whose paid a deposit ...

Might be worth mentioning - anyone whose paid a deposit using credit facilities may be able to get their "money back" by contacting the credit company (applies especially to credit cards - other forms of loans may be a bit more tricky!).
 
I'd guess that the other folks who could lose out in this PO thing will be folks who have recently sold their boats using PO as broker and are waiting for PO to pay over the money recently received for selling their boats. That will be pretty tough for them...

Ref your escrow I think you need to be very careful Gludy and I don't think the 2-signature account (at least, as you wrote it in your post) will protect you in insolvency. Sure, the 2-signatures will stop the money being misappropriated. But suppose the broker was honest, but became insolvent. Perhaps like PO. What would happen then? The probem with your 2-signatures account is that the money could as a matter of property law belong to the broker (with you in the position of a creditor) and therefore it will go into the 10p-in-the-pound pot in an insolvency. If you refuse to sign the cheque when the money is to be paid out to creditors a court will over rule you.

So, I reckon imho have the 2-signatures style account as you suggest, but in addition (and more importantly) deal with the question of who the money actually BELONGS to. Write into the contracts terms saying that money in that account received by broker for selling your boat actually BELONGS to you from the moment broker receives it and is held by broker as mere trustee for you. Then it can't go into the general creditors pot in an insolvency. Get my drift?

All imho
 
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