Any insurance recommendations (NOT Y Insurance)

[Momac]

They of course say that this is to give them a get out from a very overvalued "agreed Value".

This applies to any insurance .
Lets say you insure a boat for an agreed value of £50k and its true market value was £25k .
After a total loss would you expect to receive £50k? I can say you may not profit from insurance in this way .

 

[Chris_Robb]

This applies to any insurance .
Lets say you insure a boat for an agreed value of £50k and its true market value was £25k .
After a total loss would you expect to receive £50k? I can say you may not profit from insurance in this way .

Well, that's just the point, what is market value. It's irrelevant. The point of agreed value is that you will be able to by a similar yacht and add the cruising fittings you had on the old, i.e. you are not profiting at all., you probably have spent that extra amount, which as you know is not often reflected in market value.

It's also an indefinable description which is not good for a contract!

I still say it's down to the underwriter to understand why the owner places this value on their yacht, that's called underwriting which is their job.

 

[petem]

Anything written by Zurich is the Nav and Gen contract.

That's not true. Both Topsail and Craftinsure have underwriting authority for Zurich and both have their own policy wordings. Topsail's policy is 'agreed value' and they cannot fob you off with an equivalent boat in the event of a claim. Check for yourself if you don't believe me - https://www.topsailinsurance.com/images/General-policy-pdfs/Topsail_PDS_and_Wording_NG_v4.pdf.

I'm told that Topsail offer the most comprehensive (and most expensive) policy.

Craftinsure are cheapest of the three with more exclusions.

 

[petem]

This applies to any insurance .
Lets say you insure a boat for an agreed value of £50k and its true market value was £25k .
After a total loss would you expect to receive £50k? I can say you may not profit from insurance in this way .

The Topsail policy is an agreed value one. In the even of a claim, they will pay the you the sum insured.

 

[Cathy*]

Do boat owners choose their policy based on price alone? Or do they look in detail at the wording of cover provided?

When we bought our current boat 3 years ago I read the policy thoroughly and spoke to GJW because of the scare stories put to me by Y insurance about lack of cover for various events. I put specific cases to them e.g. sea cocks failing, engine failing and going onto rocks. They put in writing that all the events I asked about would be covered because if the boat sinks for any reason then it sinks and is insured. I was satisfied with the answers they gave and continued to insure with them. My policy went up by roughly £10 last year and the same again this year on a £500 policy (insuring £110000 motorboat) I also pay by 10 instalments interest free. I've just seen they're doing an offer at the moment for new policies, pay for 11 months and get 12 months with the code EASTER

 

[Chris_Robb]

That's not true. Both Topsail and Craftinsure have underwriting authority for Zurich and both have their own policy wordings. Topsail's policy is 'agreed value' and they cannot fob you off with an equivalent boat in the event of a claim. Check for yourself if you don't believe me - https://www.topsailinsurance.com/images/General-policy-pdfs/Topsail_PDS_and_Wording_NG_v4.pdf.

I'm told that Topsail offer the most comprehensive (and most expensive) policy.

Craftinsure are cheapest of the three with more exclusions.

Not true I am afraid, as Topsail wanted to put me with Zurich. It turned out that it was the same policy as Nav gen..... the tried to get them to endorse it out. No chance.

 

[Chris_Robb]

The Topsail policy is an agreed value one. In the even of a claim, they will pay the you the sum insured.

Not true. Discovered that today.... when I was going to renew with them.....

 

[Chris_Robb]

When we bought our current boat 3 years ago I read the policy thoroughly and spoke to GJW because of the scare stories put to me by Y insurance about lack of cover for various events. I put specific cases to them e.g. sea cocks failing, engine failing and going onto rocks. They put in writing that all the events I asked about would be covered because if the boat sinks for any reason then it sinks and is insured. I was satisfied with the answers they gave and continued to insure with them. My policy went up by roughly £10 last year and the same again this year on a £500 policy (insuring £110000 motorboat) I also pay by 10 instalments interest free. I've just seen they're doing an offer at the moment for new policies, pay for 11 months and get 12 months with the code EASTER

Three years ago haven I introduced a new corrosion clause which was horrid. I suggested a change..... guess what, they current policy has my suggested clause in it!

 

[dune16]

Sounds like a minefield to me. The craftinsure policy is by far the cheapest for me and I may just take a gamble!

 

[petem]

Not true I am afraid, as Topsail wanted to put me with Zurich. It turned out that it was the same policy as Nav gen..... the tried to get them to endorse it out. No chance.

I can only assume that for some reason they were unable to give you their usual policy and instead gave you the standard Nav and Gen one. They are different, it's there in black and white on the respective websites.

 

[petem]

Removed

 

[Chris_Robb]

I can only assume that for some reason they were unable to give you their usual policy and instead gave you the standard Nav and Gen one. They are different, it's there in black and white on the respective websites.

The link that you put there is not the full policy wording, it's their sales document. That's why I thought initially the nav and Gen would be ok. It turns out it was not correct....

 

[petem]

The link that you put there is not the full policy wording, it's their sales document. That's why I thought initially the nav and Gen would be ok. It turns out it was not correct....

That doesn't sound right! I'll speak to Claire or Chris when I have a spare 15 mins.

 

[Hooligan]

That doesn't sound right! I'll speak to Claire or Chris when I have a spare 15 mins.

Would love to hear the answer. I do not believe any insurer simply pays out the sum insured. I had a big claim insured with Amlin which i believe is actually one of the better policies, and what they will do is either pay for the repairs OR give you write off value. this is not the same as insured value, in fact you will have to fight tooth and nail to agree such a value usually. the quid pro quo is that if they accept to fix the boat and the cost ends up greater than the sum insured then they will pay out the full amount of cost ie even if higher. But let us know what Claire says.

 

[Hurricane]

Anything written by Zurich is the Nav and Gen contract. Just take note that this supposed "Agreed Value" insurance - is not - its more of a market value policy - they say that they can also replace a written off yacht with "any similar boat". They of course say that this is to give them a get out from a very overvalued "agreed Value". However, in my mind this is a disgraceful wording - and it really is down to them to do the proper underwriting of a boat - which mean understanding it svalue, and why cruisning people will always palce a much higher value: Viz - Added arch and solar panels, Black water tanks Extra Batteries 100m Chain, replace fridge totally if a Westerly - Thats £5-6K if you get some one else to fit that fridge and all the other equipment you added. I would also argue that Market Value - an extreme uncertainty - is in many cases under insuring - you just need to take the simple example of the loss if the whole rig on an Oceanlord for instance - complete will all sails and running rigging.

I have just been through the process of changing my Y yachts insurance. Nav and General were not happy to agree a value of £77K, they reckoned Market value was 60K. Ah - so out of their own mouth they are condemned. Even with westerly discount it came out at £690 on 77K. I then went to talk to Helen Webster ex of Y yachts - having got GJW to quote as well -£ 720, She wanted to put me with Zurich - but understood why I wont go that route. She came up with a new quote from Amlin for £90K value (yes - I think it might be over insured at that) at £672. All require a new Survey - last one 2007, but thats no bad thing.
So ask her to sharpen her pencil a bit - the Amlin contract is better than most.

I know very little about Pants except its a brokerage and when I was insured with a 15 year old yachts, I didnt like the Rig element of the cover, which said they would apply betterment to a new rig/mast based on their view of the likely lifetime of a mast. Problem was they would give no indication at all as to their view of what that was..... Thats a no no IMHO!

Thanks Chris
All you say in your post makes sense to me.
My Y insurance is due for renewal in April but with much bigger figures.
I definitely want an "Agreed Value" policy, and "All Risks".
My premium last year was £4,600 so you can see that I'm looking for value.
In the 40 years of boating, I've never made a claim.
For me, it is the full "write off" circumstance that I'm looking for.
I've added loads of improvements which I don't really want to do again so I want a policy that (in the event of a disaster) pays for someone else to do the work that I've done to the boat.
Agreed Value seems to address those concerns.
Thanks again for helping me to get my mind clear in this matter.

Please keep us posted on your findings.

 

[Hurricane]

Would love to hear the answer. I do not believe any insurer simply pays out the sum insured. I had a big claim insured with Amlin which i believe is actually one of the better policies, and what they will do is either pay for the repairs OR give you write off value. this is not the same as insured value, in fact you will have to fight tooth and nail to agree such a value usually. the quid pro quo is that if they accept to fix the boat and the cost ends up greater than the sum insured then they will pay out the full amount of cost ie even if higher. But let us know what Claire says.

That was EXACTLY the subject of my discussions with Y last year.
I asked (in writing) confirmation that in the event of a total loss/write off, that I would receive the insured value to go shopping myself for a replacement.
They passed my query back to the underwriter and the answer that came back was a simple YES

 

[DavidJ]

I ve had some very helpful e-mail discussion with Topsail this morning and I can do a bit of trimming to reduce the quote eg reducing my range from 20deg to 10deg east of....
Not there yet but going in the right direction.
I had a query on their gradual deterioration clause. This is their reassuring reply

”For your information regarding gradual deterioration, our underwriters are not in the business of trying to avoid claims and in order to avoid any ambiguity have agreed the wording of clause 4.11 on Page 9 of the policy wording (copy attached for ease of reference) as per the definition of gradual deterioration on Page 8, for example if your boat sinks as a result of a skin fitting failure the claim would be paid as long as you had carried out routine maintenance, such as periodically exercising a seacock to avoid it seizing and checking your skin fittings annually when your boat was out of the water.”

 

[BruceK]

Anything written by Zurich is the Nav and Gen contract. Just take note that this supposed "Agreed Value" insurance - is not - its more of a market value policy - they say that they can also replace a written off yacht with "any similar boat". They of course say that this is to give them a get out from a very overvalued "agreed Value". However, in my mind this is a disgraceful wording - and it really is down to them to do the proper underwriting of a boat - which mean understanding it svalue, and why cruisning people will always palce a much higher value: Viz - Added arch and solar panels, Black water tanks Extra Batteries 100m Chain, replace fridge totally if a Westerly - Thats £5-6K if you get some one else to fit that fridge and all the other equipment you added. I would also argue that Market Value - an extreme uncertainty - is in many cases under insuring - you just need to take the simple example of the loss if the whole rig on an Oceanlord for instance - complete will all sails and running rigging.

I have just been through the process of changing my Y yachts insurance. Nav and General were not happy to agree a value of £77K, they reckoned Market value was 60K. Ah - so out of their own mouth they are condemned. Even with westerly discount it came out at £690 on 77K. I then went to talk to Helen Webster ex of Y yachts - having got GJW to quote as well -£ 720, She wanted to put me with Zurich - but understood why I wont go that route. She came up with a new quote from Amlin for £90K value (yes - I think it might be over insured at that) at £672. All require a new Survey - last one 2007, but thats no bad thing.
So ask her to sharpen her pencil a bit - the Amlin contract is better than most.

I know very little about Pants except its a brokerage and when I was insured with a 15 year old yachts, I didnt like the Rig element of the cover, which said they would apply betterment to a new rig/mast based on their view of the likely lifetime of a mast. Problem was they would give no indication at all as to their view of what that was..... Thats a no no IMHO!

I am with Craftinsure and have found them very easy and decent to work with. When it came to valuing the boat as I had extensively upgraded it I simply asked for their preferred surveyor to survey and value. He valued it at a price higher than I did and it made up for the money I had invested in the boat. I suspect they would have some difficulty in claiming it's been overvalued now.

 

[KINGFISHER 8]

I ve had some very helpful e-mail discussion with Topsail this morning and I can do a bit of trimming to reduce the quote eg reducing my range from 20deg to 10deg east of....
Not there yet but going in the right direction.
I had a query on their gradual deterioration clause. This is their reassuring reply

”For your information regarding gradual deterioration, our underwriters are not in the business of trying to avoid claims and in order to avoid any ambiguity have agreed the wording of clause 4.11 on Page 9 of the policy wording (copy attached for ease of reference) as per the definition of gradual deterioration on Page 8, for example if your boat sinks as a result of a skin fitting failure the claim would be paid as long as you had carried out routine maintenance, such as periodically exercising a seacock to avoid it seizing and checking your skin fittings annually when your boat was out of the water.”

I tried suggesting a premium reduction with Y because I never go more than 10 miles off or 100 miles up and down the coast ... the simple reply was NO !! So Topsail offered a reduction?

 

[sealegsjim]

I have just changed to Craftinsure which is less than half the cost of Topsail - £122 against £329 for Topsail for Beneteau Oceanis 31