Any Experience With Exide Batteries?

[demonboy]

Weekly question on batteries, which really should be a PM for Troubadour since he seems to know all there is to know on the subject...

Exide Batteries are one of the largest manufacturer of batteries in India. Does anyone have any opinion or experience or heard rumours of them?

My situation is this: having been swung back round to the idea of wets I have discovered that there are some Trojans coming in to India shortly. However the exchange rate of the INR to USD was so bad the price seems rather steep at Rs 15,900 +VAT, which equates to almost 200 quid for some T125s (225aH). In short that's over 850 squid for 4 Trojans.

Exide do an equivalent but are Rs10,000. Now I know Trojans are supposed to be the best but we're talking 150 quid more for them and we simply don't have the spare cash at the moment.

I've spoken to Exide who seem to (finally) have understand the application of these batteries were I to buy them (the concept of using traction batteries in a boat is completely foreign to them) and said they are suitable for deep cycling providing they don't drop to 10.5v. Not much chance of that happening on Esper so they could be a viable alternative to the Trojans.

Another thing: on the phone the technical chap refered to the rating of the batteries in C5 hour terms, not C20, so he refered to the battery as 171 aH, not 225 (even though they are called 6c 225). Does this make any difference to me?

 

[G12]

Weekly question on batteries, which really should be a PM for Troubadour since he seems to know all there is to know on the subject...

Exide Batteries are one of the largest manufacturer of batteries in India. Does anyone have any opinion or experience or heard rumours of them?

My situation is this: having been swung back round to the idea of wets I have discovered that there are some Trojans coming in to India shortly. However the exchange rate of the INR to USD was so bad the price seems rather steep at Rs 15,900 +VAT, which equates to almost 200 quid for some T125s (225aH). In short that's over 850 squid for 4 Trojans.

Exide do an equivalent but are Rs10,000. Now I know Trojans are supposed to be the best but we're talking 150 quid more for them and we simply don't have the spare cash at the moment.

I've spoken to Exide who seem to (finally) have understand the application of these batteries were I to buy them (the concept of using traction batteries in a boat is completely foreign to them) and said they are suitable for deep cycling providing they don't drop to 10.5v. Not much chance of that happening on Esper so they could be a viable alternative to the Trojans.

Another thing: on the phone the technical chap refered to the rating of the batteries in C5 hour terms, not C20, so he refered to the battery as 171 aH, not 225 (even though they are called 6c 225). Does this make any difference to me?

Exide are a big company, they've been making batteries for years. I would happily buy from them if one of their products suited my application. I think we may have used Exide in the past actually.

 

[VicS]

Another thing: on the phone the technical chap refered to the rating of the batteries in C5 hour terms, not C20, so he refered to the battery as 171 aH, not 225 (even though they are called 6c 225). Does this make any difference to me?

The capacity figure depends upon the rate at which the battery is discharged.

C20 means discharged over 20 hours. C5 means over 5 hours. For the same battery the C5 figure will be lower than the C20 figure.

 

[ccscott49]

Weekly question on batteries, which really should be a PM for Troubadour since he seems to know all there is to know on the subject...

Exide Batteries are one of the largest manufacturer of batteries in India. Does anyone have any opinion or experience or heard rumours of them?

My situation is this: having been swung back round to the idea of wets I have discovered that there are some Trojans coming in to India shortly. However the exchange rate of the INR to USD was so bad the price seems rather steep at Rs 15,900 +VAT, which equates to almost 200 quid for some T125s (225aH). In short that's over 850 squid for 4 Trojans.

Exide do an equivalent but are Rs10,000. Now I know Trojans are supposed to be the best but we're talking 150 quid more for them and we simply don't have the spare cash at the moment.

I've spoken to Exide who seem to (finally) have understand the application of these batteries were I to buy them (the concept of using traction batteries in a boat is completely foreign to them) and said they are suitable for deep cycling providing they don't drop to 10.5v. Not much chance of that happening on Esper so they could be a viable alternative to the Trojans.

Another thing: on the phone the technical chap refered to the rating of the batteries in C5 hour terms, not C20, so he refered to the battery as 171 aH, not 225 (even though they are called 6c 225). Does this make any difference to me?

I've used Exides and they were a good battery, mine were made in UK.
BUT the reason so many batteries are now made abroad, is a pollution question, making lead acid batteries is not very green, so The elfs of HSE, have made it very expensive to make them in UK and other european countries, hence a lot coming from south afric, india and china.
Which of course doesnt mean they are any worse or better than ones which used to be made in Wigan! (where exides were made)
For the price difference I would go with the exides, only discharge them 50%, and keep a weather eye on the levels, they will have big reservoirs, so should be a doddle. You can whack the charge in no worries, but have to allow the batteries to vent over the side and keep the levels topped up. The hydrogen produced does disapate fast.

 

[2Tizwoz]

it seems that you are dealing with an Indian company Exide Industries which as you say are a large long established battery manufacturer with a good history.

There is also an American company Exide with worldwide manufacturing facilities which is better known as it is the second largest battery manufacturer in the world.

As you can see, they also manufacture in India.

Manufacturing Plants

North America:
Bristol, Tennessee
Columbus, Georgia
Florence, Mississippi
Fort Smith, Arkansas
Kansas City, Kansas
Manchester, Iowa
Salina, Kansas

Europe:
Azuqueca, Spain
Bad Lauterberg, Germany
Budingen, Germany
Castanheira do Ribatejo, Portugal
Fumane, Italy
Horten, Norway
La Cartuja, Spain
Lille, France
Manzanares, Spain
Poznan, Poland
Romano di Lombardia (BG), Italy

South Asia:
Bangalore, India
Gandhinagar, India

Pacific Rim:
Adelaide, Australia
Padstow, Australia

 

[Plevier]

I don't know all about it and lots has changed since I was in the industry!

The whole industry is incredibly incestuous with licensing deals, changes of ownership, selling of brand names, labelling of other peoples products to supplement your own range or buying plates from other companies.

As an example, the Exide name used to be used in UK (and for export) by Chloride Power Storage Ltd although they were not connected with Exide USA except by a branding deal. Chloride UK were involved iwth Exide Industries India. Exide Industries India now seems to be independent - as per 2Tizwoz's email - while Chloride in UK (who no longer manufacture batteries in the UK) got taken over by Exide USA, who have their own factiories in India!! Whether there is technical collaboration between Exide USA and Exide Industries India, I don't know. (Chloride in the UK is now a separate company making UPS systems and not connected with Exide.)

As I pointed out before, often a factory taken over by a big name like Exide will continue to make the product they made before. So an Exide battery from an Exide factory in India, an Exide product from an Exide factory in USA and an Exide product from Exide Industries India may all be totally different.

So can't give detailed advice. However I'm prepared to believe that Exide USA will make an effort to ensure that product they make anywhere in the world is to a good standard - but I don't know if they make anything suitable for you in India. Exide Industries India is substantial and may well make good products. However Southern Batteries is also quite big and looks good on paper, yet admitted to you that their products (AGMs anyway) were not up to world standards. Years of protectionism has had its usual effect on Indian indigenous quality standards although it's changing.

So I'm sorry but it's going to have to be your choice based on local impressions! You're probably right (IMO) to go flooded. Look for good plate thickness and maximum weight.

 

[demonboy]

Thanks, all.

The Exide spec is HERE, whilst the equivalent Trojan is HERE. On paper they appear fairly similar, though that means nothing of their performance in practice.

I'm 99% sure I will be going for the Exides. Thanks to everyone who has helped and to the links and pics too. No doubt I'll return with more exciting battery-related questions soon

 

[sailorman]

Weekly question on batteries, which really should be a PM for Troubadour since he seems to know all there is to know on the subject...

Exide Batteries are one of the largest manufacturer of batteries in India. Does anyone have any opinion or experience or heard rumours of them?

My situation is this: having been swung back round to the idea of wets I have discovered that there are some Trojans coming in to India shortly. However the exchange rate of the INR to USD was so bad the price seems rather steep at Rs 15,900 +VAT, which equates to almost 200 quid for some T125s (225aH). In short that's over 850 squid for 4 Trojans.

Exide do an equivalent but are Rs10,000. Now I know Trojans are supposed to be the best but we're talking 150 quid more for them and we simply don't have the spare cash at the moment.

I've spoken to Exide who seem to (finally) have understand the application of these batteries were I to buy them (the concept of using traction batteries in a boat is completely foreign to them) and said they are suitable for deep cycling providing they don't drop to 10.5v. Not much chance of that happening on Esper so they could be a viable alternative to the Trojans.

Another thing: on the phone the technical chap refered to the rating of the batteries in C5 hour terms, not C20, so he refered to the battery as 171 aH, not 225 (even though they are called 6c 225). Does this make any difference to me?

Bopahl rings a bell

 

[Plevier]

The Exide Industries one is obviously made for the same applications and as you say appears similar on the minimal info you have. The big market in the US is floor scrubbers - I don't know what dominates in India. Possibly golf buggy type vehicles if you include all the vehicles of that type used in airports. (Golf cart in UK tends to mean the ones you walk with, they don't use these.)

What you don't know is grid material, grid design (interlock or plain), whether the grids are high quality pressure diecastings or gravity poured and full of blowholes, the paste composition, the pasting and drying process, the terminal quality, the separator quality, the intercell weld quality, the formation process and lots more that hasn't occurred to me off the cuff! All the things that define a battery's quality far more than what it looks like!
So unless you can investigate local reputation it's a gamble.

One point about the Trojans if you are still considering them; find out if they have been shipped wet or dry. If they are dry (avoiding hazardous cargo charges) then you are very dependent on how well the local agent fills and commission charges them. This can have a big effect on life and agents often skimp on it. On the other hand if they were shipped wet and factory charged, you need to check manufacturing date to make sure not too old, and they must have a thorough charge before going into service. I'm sure all the details will be in the Trojan manual.

PS Did Southern Batteries come back with a flat plate alternative?

 

[2Tizwoz]

Exide Industries mention that they use pressure diecasting using imported machinery and are one of the very few companies manufacturing submarine batteries. Quality doesn't seem to be a problem. Discharging to 10.5 volts won't prolong their lives however.

 

[demonboy]

Thanks, all.

Troubadour - Southern came back unhelpful in the end. However another company, HBL, who came over to the boat and had a chat, ended up recommending Pure Lead Tin batteries. The spec of the battery they were recommending can be found here. x3 PLT 160-12 (12 V 160 AH)

What's that all about then?

 

[Plevier]

Thanks, all.

Troubadour - Southern came back unhelpful in the end. However another company, HBL, who came over to the boat and had a chat, ended up recommending Pure Lead Tin batteries. The spec of the battery they were recommending can be found here. x3 PLT 160-12 (12 V 160 AH)

What's that all about then?

Definitely not right for you. Their own brochure says thin plate and designed for standby applications. I'd eat my hat if they achieve the cycle life graph in the brochure.
Have you noticed on their website they claim to be experts in many fields of advanced engineering but page after page is "under construction." Whole thing inspires a severe lack of confidence in me anyway!
All batteries - well just a very few exceptions - use a lead alloy for the plate grids because pure lead is not stiff enough. The commonest alloying elements are antimony and calcium (not together, they are alternatives). Occasionally these are supplemented with other additional alloying elements, most commonly silver and tin. Lead-tin without antimony is not common. We tried it (also in thin plate high rate batteries) not awfully successfully. Don't be misled by the "pure lead-tin", it just means lead-tin alloy without anything else.

 

[demonboy]

Thanks for clearing that up, Troubadour.

 

[NickRobinson]

New or old stock...

"On the other hand if they were shipped wet and factory charged, you need to check manufacturing date to make sure not too old,"

Last year I think I bought battery which looked new but could have been NOS/bankrupt stock. It had to be returned to a hole in the wall supplier who didn't seem too surprised (yes- I know that's my fault!).

I could not use any of the numbers on the case to discover a date of manufacture- is there a fool proof way?

Nick

 

[Plevier]

"On the other hand if they were shipped wet and factory charged, you need to check manufacturing date to make sure not too old,"

Last year I think I bought battery which looked new but could have been NOS/bankrupt stock. It had to be returned to a hole in the wall supplier who didn't seem too surprised (yes- I know that's my fault!).

I could not use any of the numbers on the case to discover a date of manufacture- is there a fool proof way?

Nick

No! Some manufacturers put it in plain language, others code it.

 

[Plevier]

Thanks, all.

The Exide spec is HERE, whilst the equivalent Trojan is HERE. On paper they appear fairly similar, though that means nothing of their performance in practice.

I'm 99% sure I will be going for the Exides. Thanks to everyone who has helped and to the links and pics too. No doubt I'll return with more exciting battery-related questions soon

Did Exide tell you this one is flat plate or tubular? I'd assumed it was flat, the brochure you've linked to doesn't say, but their website indicates it's tubular, which should be better for cycle life.

I think your options are running out.....