Antifouling!

[Hurricane]

Pete, I did go 2 seasons in Majorca and I believe the yard used a Titan Yate eroding antifoul. Sorry can't give you the exact paint code. Surely your best bet is to ask around in SC because the locals always know what works best in their neighbourhood

Most boats in SC are using Micron 77 - now Micron 88 (or was it 99)
The local "go to man" is an International agent so he tends to use Micron xx (or whatever it is called these days)
I know friends who have used Micron Extra (I think it is now called Micron Extra 2)
However, IMO, any antifoul works as long as you can get it to stick.
Of course, generally speaking, it will stick to the hull well - my comment about sticking is that NOTHING sticks to Props!!!!

 

[petem]

Most boats in SC are using Micron 77 - now Micron 88 (or was it 99)
The local "go to man" is an International agent so he tends to use Micron xx (or whatever it is called these days)
I know friends who have used Micron Extra (I think it is now called Micron Extra 2)
However, IMO, any antifoul works as long as you can get it to stick.
Of course, generally speaking, it will stick to the hull well - my comment about sticking is that NOTHING sticks to Props!!!!

Thanks JtB and Mike. I believe JFM uses Micron 99 and gets two season out of it. So I think my approach will be to wait until the current paint stops working then get Micron 99 painted on. I assume that after two seasons a wash with the SCM jet wash (if we're still there) will remove most of it thus preventing build up.

Thinking about it, rather then rub down and put A/f on the dive it does make sense just to lift and scrub the drives only.

Sorted!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Deleted User, do you possibly remember how did your boat fare with that during your time in CF? Pretty sure they used the same stuff.
Besides, I half remember that someone in SCM (Whiteligher?) was thinking to try some silicone-based foul release paint on the metal bits.
I'd be curious to hear about that, too.

It stuck to the props but I'm not sure it worked too well in terms of stopping fouling. This is the boat being lifted last winter in France after the paint was applied the previous winter in CF

IMHO it would be difficult to assess the performance of any kind of antifoul paint in CF because, compared to many other Med locations, the water is very clean and not polluted with agricultural fertilizers and human waste.

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks JtB and Mike. I believe JFM uses Micron 99 and gets two season out of it. So I think my approach will be to wait until the current paint stops working then get Micron 99 painted on. I assume that after two seasons a wash with the SCM jet wash (if we're still there) will remove most of it thus preventing build up.

Thinking about it, rather then rub down and put A/f on the dive it does make sense just to lift and scrub the drives only.

Sorted!

Robert (Roberto) is your man - he is the International agent as well.
However, he will push you to paint every season - best to remain assertive and make your own mind up.
But the pressure washer will wash lots off each time.
As I say, most (if not all) antifouls will well work in SC - as long as the af is there it works.
What we need is something for the props.

Regarding your props and stern drives, you will have seen previous posts of mine where I've given up trying to coat them.
I just pressure wash, then acid wash and then (if the boat is blocked off) polish them.
I've posted this before but these are the results

Polish during block off

And a mid season pressure and acid wash

 

[petem]

Thanks Mike, as per my post, if I go for a self eroding A/F for the hull then I would avoid jet washing this and just get the drives and props pressure washed.

As you know, lots of folk 'bag' the drives but that doesn't seem terribly easy to me (props would be easy to do though). I'm not sure if growth on the upper part of the drive (that is behind the stern) would have much impact on performance.

I guess it's a case of listening to advice and seeing what works best for us.

 

[MapisM]

I've posted this before but these are the results
...

M, am I alone in seeing two identical pics...

 

[MapisM]

It stuck to the props but I'm not sure it worked too well in terms of stopping fouling. This is the boat being lifted last winter in France after the paint was applied the previous winter in CF

Mmm... That's indeed weird.
IIRC, during the delivery trip from CF to PV, both the hull and the u/w gear were MUCH cleaner than that.
So, either the a/f wasn't working equally well once you reached SoF waters, or as you say the marine growth is much worse there than in CF.
What products are you using now, and do you find the boat in similar conditions after a similar timeframe spent entirely in SoF?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mmm... That's indeed weird.
IIRC, during the delivery trip from CF to PV, both the hull and the u/w gear were MUCH cleaner than that.
So, either the a/f wasn't working equally well once you reached SoF waters, or as you say the marine growth is much worse there than in CF.
What products are you using now, and do you find the boat in similar conditions after a similar timeframe spent entirely in SoF?

Your memory is better than mine then! What I do remember though was she got quite fouled whilst she was berthed in La Spezia so that is possibly where some of the fouling comes from. For sure though both hull and sterngear fouling is worse in PV than CF but nowhere I've been in the Med has been quite as bad as Palma for sterngear fouling. Sorry, again I have no idea what antifoul paint is on her now. As I say I'm far more concerned about keeping the sterngear clean than the hull

 

[Dazzajohm]

As Copper Coat antifouling seems to be the topic of the week, to prevent further drift on those threads I thought I'd create a new one on the more general topic of anti fouling.

Unfortunately I don't know what type of A/F is on my boat as it was applied prior to us buying the boat. What I do know is that it seems to be coping well with the harsh fouling that we get in SCM. After 3 months in the water with no use, there was nothing more than a bit of slime on the hull. However the outdrives and props were covered with growth. As we didn't know what type of A/F was on the hull and considering its clean condition we didn't jet wash it to remove the slime. I assume this slime will have minimal impact on performance?

Anyhow, reading some posts on this topic I would like to get two years out of a coating. Not necessarily because of the cost but to prevent A/F build up (A/F was stripped back a few years ago and the hull is still in great shape). For the same reason, I would prefer an eroding A/F over a hard one.

Once I find out what's on my boat I will decide whether to put another coat on this year. I will definitely need to do something with the legs as whatever is on them isn't working at all. I'll probably bag the props between visits (easy to do).

So my question to others is...

1) Is your cruising fast (planing) or slow (displacement)? Fast...ish. Around 18knts apart from in and out the harbour obviously

2) Where is your boat kept? Dover

3) How many hours a year do you use the boat? 50ish

4) What A/F do you currently use on the hull (hard/soft/make/type)? Last year I put on hemple hard racing. This year I am going to try hempel Tigre extra self eroding after doing a bit of research. I don't want to keep putting hard on top of hard and end up eventually having to scrape it all off

5) What A/F do you use on your outdrives / stern gear? Last year it was just the Volvo stuff which was rubbish and didn't work at all. Definitely looking for recommendations this year.

6) Are you in intending to change to another brand / type? Not at the moment happy with Hempel

7) Have you had any bad experiences with other brands? No

8) What maintenance regime do you have for the A/F (scrubs/coating frequency)? I would clean the props and tabs off with a brush and jet wash a number of times during the year in the marina. Other than that I anti foul during the annual haul out and leave another year.

With any luck, we'll get some interesting answers.

Answers above ,photo attached

 

[Hurricane]

M, am I alone in seeing two identical pics...

Please try again.
It is my own server serving the images and as a shortcut, I've written a script that resizes the images "on the fly".
As a result, the process can suffer from buffering.
Press Control and F5 to force a full refresh - that might fix it.

 

[MapisM]

Please try again.

Fine now! :encouragement:

 

[MapisM]

What I do remember though was she got quite fouled whilst she was berthed in La Spezia so that is possibly where some of the fouling comes from.

Aha, yeah, I didn't consider that you stopped there for a while, before reaching PV. That pretty much explains everything, because LS is notorious for aggressive marine growth.
Allegedly, that has to see with the large Navy base nearby, but whatever the reason, there's a widespread consensus on the fact that the area is particularly problematic in this respect!

 

[Portofino]

Mike I know from a previous thread— new upholstery covers ( the Mrs 10% of what ever commission- lady ) you are short on time , but after a short ish while in the SoF , it dawned on me that there was a disparity between price / value / quality.
So basically I started to DIY the annual .
All started when the gardienne was not ,could not be bothered changing the tiny bow thruster anode in the Sun Seeker .
I had 2x BT gearboxes let go at €1k a pop .Ok ish ? That’s boating , sure does sharpen up handling skills , but the real potential imminent car crash is I purchased ( 2nd time round *) the last remaining g box part in the UK - as they were out of production.
So any more hassle = whole new unit . It a pig of a job , about 25 mins with an adaptation spanner turning about 1/8 th each time and a long bolt - if it wasn’t for my surgical experience I can see why it defeated other blokes .

It takes a week basically of yard time to book , and you need a mate , two blokes ,this inc a hull polish too . If you crack on you can get it back in by Thur Pm .

There AF was not as good as what I use ,which is this Veneziani-Raffaello-Antifouling .
It costs more , but you get what you pay for ,importantly it works in the SoF on the hull - see pics above in my other post ^^

You see these 3 rd P ,s May quote one thing on paper and bill you ,then appply somthing else crappy .

Regarding the sterngear —- theses nothing that worth chucking €€€ @ that works - so we now do nothing - as said get diving gear or pay a diver —- then again the pay back time is short with your own kit , and zero organisational ball ache .
I actually enjoy cleaning em up tbh - not in the marina @ a nice anchorage 1st day on arrival .

It’s the same with polishing the hull , they your 3p you hire will give it a once over - with sumit cheap , cos it’s quick , we use a two pack Dulon 2 , takes more than 2x time wise but lasts ( the globular water / was effect) all season .Dulon costs 2-3 x much / pack too .

The maths if you like getting your hands dirty to stack up too , you save € 1000,s literally that easily offsets any down time back home if you are still working - ,more so if you are a principle and don,t need to be there physically ?

Buts it was not the maths never was how I ended up doing the annual - it’s getting the job done properly/ better / correct .

* typically in the SoF via the VP.Fr dealer I was quoted €1600 + tax for the 1st gearbox circa 2006 , it’s a VP — Bp 350 bow thruster ,
I sourced on £800inc vat in the U.K. and posted it down for the engineer to fit .
Next time it went say 2011 - corossion of the internals due to worn anode , the U.K. dealer said I had taken the very last part , next time would need a whole new bow thruster fitted - SoF engineer quoted €5k for this via the gardienne !!
I think they had ran out of stock in Fr by then . I disappointed the Fr guys by sending them the 2nd gearbox to fit .
Since I started to change to do the annual and the change the BT anode - no problem s

You should not get growth on the stern in the SoF - like your ( Deleted User,s pic ^^ ) if the AF is a up to the job and applied correctly .

A lot of “clean hands “ locals pop into the yard Dailey to keep an eye on the guys they have commissioned, oversee the job etc .
I realise that’s a luxury doing long range folks don,t have ,
I,ve seen some horror s in the yard on absentee owner boats -

 

[jfm]

I'm keen to establish it there's an eroding A/F that will last me for two years (I remember being told that eroding A/F was no good for fast boats when I had my old Targa). Also, whether mid season pressure washing should be avoided with a self eroding A/F as the yard guys seem to be suggesting this be avoided.

Micron 66/77 is definitely a 2 year product. But you have to do anodes. repaint flaps, etc, every year.

I have been told many times not to use soft a/f on planning boats and I totally disagree. The m66/77 are not that soft and you want it to erode quite fast. I'm more worried about it building up too thick given that I'm keeping this boat a few years, then about it rubbing off. So I totally ignore those warnings for boat yards and just instruct them to apply m66/77

Thanks JtB and Mike. I believe JFM uses Micron 99 and gets two season out of it. So I think my approach will be to wait until the current paint stops working then get Micron 99 painted on. I assume that after two seasons a wash with the SCM jet wash (if we're still there) will remove most of it thus preventing build up.

M99 is new and I heard rumours that it isn't as strong at antifouling, but that is just chit chat and I have no hard info. I never spotted any difference when they changed from m66 to m77. Last time (March 2017) I used M99 and did a short lift (to clean props) in August 2017 and it looked fine, but I'll judge when I lift out in 2018 in maybe April

Just for ref here is my hull in March 2017 with M77 after a full year in the med. Not great pic but hull was clean as a whistle when lifted (apart from the props!). It got overpainted with one coat of m99

Below are some older pics - this is lift out March 2015 after a year with M66 or M77. Hull bottom is uber clean. There is a very thin layer of gree algae sometimes above the chine, along the sides where there is a lot of sunlight, but it's very thin and doesn't affect speed. In my book this M66/77 stuff is the best there is. It totally stops weed and barnacles, it is soft so doesn't get too thick, and after a year you can jet wash it and use it another year (after touching up rudders and other leading edges that get a lot of wear, and the trim tabs)

 

[Portofino]

Impressive pics
Reflecting I think the stuff I use Veneziani-Raffaello is a eroding type too , .
We get a WL similiar , on the sunny side too - as you say minimal effect on performance.Infact I sometimes end of season just take a scraper to it for the sake of neatness .
So important bits are fine .

As I infer sumits not quite right with Deleted User,s looking @ the transom pic .

We can,t get anything to stick our rudders given up on that .

How ever with the sterngear I have noticed if you go on a long run circa 1800 rpm with them fouled they sort of self clean .
The speed increases and the load / EGT s as the journey progress decreases .
The mid section of about 1/3 of the L of the rudders just behind the propwash clean up like new , the ends stay fouled .
It’s the hub 1/2 of the props that’s self cleans down to the metal , the blade tips stay fouled .

Anyways with the outdrives boat it would not plane ,stalled @ 2000/2500 rpm with a slightest bit of 8hit on the duoprops .

It’s this important imho detail PeteM needs a strategy to deal with , even say a 3 week gap between visits in the season .
You can,t keep realistically and ball achingly keep organising the “ free “ lift or what ever @ SCM amongst the 3 syndicate members .
You know take a flyer arrive late Fri Pm , then have to wait until Monday , if it’s not a Sp Bank hole or the lift operator is “ off “ or the lift is having “ maintenance “
Long W/E - home Tue etc ——- canning those KAD ,s with fouled props = big bills arriving any time soon !

It’s either hire a diver
Or somebody’s gotta hand clean them .

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

As I infer sumits not quite right with Deleted User,s looking @ the transom pic .
.

What like the prop is on the wrong way round?

 

[MapisM]

What a/f did you have on those props, none at all, as I understand?
And if so, how long did it take to get to those conditions?

 

[MapisM]

M, I meant to ask before but I forgot. Do you know who the builder of your props is?
They get my vote for the most advanced props posted so far in this thread - and not because they are shiny in your pics!

 

[MapisM]

It’s the hub 1/2 of the props that’s self cleans down to the metal , the blade tips stay fouled .

Beware, that's usually a symptom of some degree of cavitation. Look out for tipping in that area.

 

[Portofino]

What like the prop is on the wrong way round?

Transom which is presumably in a lot of shade should look a lot cleaner , no worm casts ( or what ever they are ? ) - just slime at the most .If it’s been parked up a few months prior to its annual lift ?

@ least JMF has a pic of the product allegedly put on which tally’s with his instructions, and presume reconcile s with any invoice —— if he wasn’t there personally to oversee the job .