Antifouling!

[petem]

As Copper Coat antifouling seems to be the topic of the week, to prevent further drift on those threads I thought I'd create a new one on the more general topic of anti fouling.

Unfortunately I don't know what type of A/F is on my boat as it was applied prior to us buying the boat. What I do know is that it seems to be coping well with the harsh fouling that we get in SCM. After 3 months in the water with no use, there was nothing more than a bit of slime on the hull. However the outdrives and props were covered with growth. As we didn't know what type of A/F was on the hull and considering its clean condition we didn't jet wash it to remove the slime. I assume this slime will have minimal impact on performance?

Anyhow, reading some posts on this topic I would like to get two years out of a coating. Not necessarily because of the cost but to prevent A/F build up (A/F was stripped back a few years ago and the hull is still in great shape). For the same reason, I would prefer an eroding A/F over a hard one.

Once I find out what's on my boat I will decide whether to put another coat on this year. I will definitely need to do something with the legs as whatever is on them isn't working at all. I'll probably bag the props between visits (easy to do).

So my question to others is...

1) Is your cruising fast (planing) or slow (displacement)?
2) Where is your boat kept?
3) How many hours a year do you use the boat?
4) What A/F do you currently use on the hull (hard/soft/make/type)?
5) What A/F do you use on your outdrives / stern gear?
6) Are you in intending to change to another brand / type?
7) Have you had any bad experiences with other brands?
8) What maintenance regime do you have for the A/F (scrubs/coating frequency)?

With any luck, we'll get some interesting answers.

 

[Firefly625]

1) Is your cruising fast (planing) or slow (displacement)?

11.5knots

2) Where is your boat kept?

Hamble

3) How many hours a year do you use the boat?

40

4) What A/F do you currently use on the hull (hard/soft/make/type)?

International Cruiser Uno (eroding) hull
Hemple Hard Racing on boot top

5) What A/F do you use on your outdrives / stern gear?

Shaft / Prop - none
Trim Tabs 3 x coats of Cruiser Uno

6) Are you in intending to change to another brand / type?

No

7) Have you had any bad experiences with other brands?

No, But always used International - either Uno or Micron Extra

8) What maintenance regime do you have for the A/F (scrubs/coating frequency)?

done annually, rub old antifoul down extensively to minimise build up with Mirka Deros Sander & 40grit Abranet discs & powerful vacuum done before Christmas
2 x coats of Cruiser Uno & 2 coats of Hard Racing on Boot top done Feb. Boat launched early March

Summer scrub done by scrubbis hull cleaner (possible with round bilges) to minimise build up so I can maintain my heady 11.5 knot cruise


I would think a pretty bog standard reply... but will be interesting to see how wrong I am..

edited bit...

added some pics for those who don't like reading ;-)

just lifted - before being jet washed... minimal growth on hull, trib tabs a bit fluffy..

sanded..

Painted

 

[rubberduck]

You need coppercoat !
I'll get me coat

 

[Portofino]

Luckily the water is warm enough in the Med to be able to hand scape as and when , perhaps a shorty at the ends of the season ?

Having had a similiar sterndrive like yours - they need cleaning one way or another every trip .
So do my props on the replacement shafty -
With the Porto 35 I could raise the legs and lay on the bathing platform to get 90% clean of the props .
I have to make a distinction here , between KAD powered sterndrives and shaft dirty props ,even 0.001 ( Ok exaggeration) mm of growth with tge KAD ,s they would not spin above 2500 rpm it could not get the boat on the plane ! - yup
So I used to Hand clean the props takes about 30-40 mins in the marina before going out .

Then ( summer season ) @ the 1st anchorage fine finish and scape the legs and flaps .
Remember the Diesel engine killer is excess exhaust gas temp / overloading - burning stuff , exhaust valves and with the KAD series - loadsa prematurely worn turbo ,s on here .

There’s nowt I found over the 9 seasons that stuck to the duo props , even the so called grey VP anifoul for the legs struggled .
Last season of ownership,2014 - we did go a bit mad and after priming AF,d the dam things —- not saying do that , I fact my advice is simple
Just work on a hand cleaning regime.

I bought a mini dive kit too - if you have space to store and a €4 refill facilities @ a marina dive shop then that’s a good idea - about €500 + about €60 every 2y for the bottle “mot “
I bought the dive kit to in an emergency to clear sterngear if we hit a pot and got tangled up - but ended up using it to clean the dam things !
You don,t see many “bagged “ outdrives in our marina ( 900 boats ) a lot outdrives.- good luck with that never tried it .

Moving on , the Itama I had some prep work done as a prerequisite to the purchase and a bit like Robin / Londonrascal on the other thread some PPP PPPP befor the Del trip of a new boat to me over 400 mikes in the winter up the Med .
See the pics .They Af,d the lot - did not really work on the stern gear - props just spun it off .

I’ve done 3 “ annuals “ on it and basically just copied like a lemming what rest 20 boats out do.
AF the hull and leave the sterngear bear metal — it works for this boat .
I can,t lean over and hand clean with this ,bit can just about snorkel when anchored in a nice place taking deep breaths 30-40 mins for a prop scape .
Btw - the engines have enough torque to stop the earth rotating , fouled props make no difference to planing , it’s just the speed for a given rpm is less with dirty gear .
Say 26 knots as opposed to 30 with 80% Load - yup I have access to load and tge EGT,s via tge MMDS so in a way they tell me they want a scub I use that data a lot when setting the cruising speed .
If I am lazy I will get togged up with my diving gear ( 1st day ) and later get the bottled refilled when we return to port .
About 15 mins a prop + rudders .

Re AF we currently use some black hard name begins with veniz - something ? ,
How ever I’ve not really looked into this subject and was surprised to pick up on JFM,s micron 66 - soft two year application .I think my Af spend is about €200/ tin and we use 2 tins , in the context of the total cost of the annual inc engine services it’s really a small proportion, I mean we replace 64 L of oil for eg .

As regards watching other folks ( retired now so do a lot of watching ) - most put a coat of AF on a few every Y do a complete strip back , usually by hand - gels , sanders - but 4/6 peeps working on a typical 50 fter takes a week to get every bit off .

I feel there’s other performance dulling things like excess Kg,s wind n waves to worry about a super smooth bottom .
We did 80 hrs last year

Few pics to brighten up the thread
https://imgur.com/a/mQaHt

 

[Oscar24]

1. Mixture of both. 6knts and 18knts
2 Holes Bay. Poole
3. About 100hrs on the motor
4. Hemple Hard racing
5. N/A as use an outboard.
6. Nope
7. No experience
8. A light rub down with them foam sanding blocks

 

[tico]

1) Is your cruising fast (planing) or slow (displacement)?..... fast
2) Where is your boat kept? West Wales, marina brackish / muddy , rest is seawater
3) How many hours a year do you use the boat?..... ~100
4) What A/F do you currently use on the hull (hard/soft/make/type)? Seajet Shogun 033
5) What A/F do you use on your outdrives / stern gear?...... Trilux
6) Are you in intending to change to another brand / type?... nope, it works!
7) Have you had any bad experiences with other brands?... International seemed to feed the barnacles rather than discourage them. Had good results previously with VC Offshore PTFE based a/foul
8) What maintenance regime do you have for the A/F (scrubs/coating frequency)?.... Scrub ~2-3 times each year (dive gear) or snorkel. Recoat each year, 1 coat.

 

[BruceK]

1) Is your cruising fast (planing) or slow (displacement)? - Planing cruising sub 25knt

2) Where is your boat kept? - Conwy - very heavy fouling

3) How many hours a year do you use the boat? Every weekend > 50hrs p.a.

4) What A/F do you currently use on the hull (hard/soft/make/type)? International Micron Extra 2 (self ablating > 25knts) - Absolutely flawless performance for not a single barnacle growth ANYWHERE now replaced by 350. Small amount of slime that comes off with planing speed.

5) What A/F do you use on your outdrives / stern gear? Trilux 33 on outdrives. Great for now weed or slime but the transom H etc and upper gearbox was a carpet of barnacles. Lower gearbox in moving water clean. Does have adhesion issues in fast flow. So a half job, but the half that counts I suppose


6) Are you in intending to change to another brand / type? Absolutely not. I've tried a few cheaper and got cheaper results. Frankly have better things to do than mid season scrape offs etc

7) Have you had any bad experiences with other brands? Plenty. But in fairness locale plays a role here too for other reported good results with them. On that basis I wont name. However price per tin is also closely aligned to quality of result in my experience

8) What maintenance regime do you have for the A/F (scrubs/coating frequency)? Nothing. 2 years service- replace for hull. Drives and Trilux 33, I may give up on that altogether. It doesn't seem to have any beneficial effect that a smooth epoxy coating couldn't duplicate. Very disappointed there and there doesn't seem to be a alternative worth speaking of either

EDIT

A picture speaks a 1000 words. Judge for yourself

 

[julians]

1) Is your cruising fast (planing) or slow (displacement)?

fast planing boat (Windy 25)


2) Where is your boat kept?

Mallorca

3) How many hours a year do you use the boat?

50 engine hours, but the boat is in the water 360 days of the year.

4) What A/F do you currently use on the hull (hard/soft/make/type)?

no idea - the chap who looks after the boat just applies it and it seems to work well, we just get a thin layer of slime and thats it

5) What A/F do you use on your outdrives / stern gear?

Again no idea, but we get a few small wormy things growing on the drive and props, but nothing bad, a combination of the growth and the hull slime knock about 4 knots off my top speed (42knots at start of season, down to 38 knots at the end - well its usuall down to 38 knots by mid summer, but then doesnt slow down any more than this)

6) Are you in intending to change to another brand / type?

No

7) Have you had any bad experiences with other brands?

Have always trusted the local people to apply what works, and have never been let down

8) What maintenance regime do you have for the A/F (scrubs/coating frequency)?

Just a new coat of antifoul every 12 months, no lifting out or scrubbing between the new coats of AF

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Pete in my experience of various parts of the Med hull fouling is not a problem, at least not anywhere near as big a problem as sterngear fouling. On at least two occasions I have gone 2yrs between repainting and just had the hull pressure washed although I do remember that this cost me a knot or 2 in the 2nd year. I couldnt even tell you what type of antifoul paint I've used because I've always gone with the recommendation of whichever yard was doing the repainting job on the basis that they will know far better than me what paint works best in their local waters. I do remember in Majorca that the yard always recommended a Titan self polishing paint and certainly that worked well on my boat

 

[petem]

Pete in my experience of various parts of the Med hull fouling is not a problem, at least not anywhere near as big a problem as sterngear fouling. On at least two occasions I have gone 2yrs between repainting and just had the hull pressure washed although I do remember that this cost me a knot or 2 in the 2nd year. I couldnt even tell you what type of antifoul paint I've used because I've always gone with the recommendation of whichever yard was doing the repainting job on the basis that they will know far better than me what paint works best in their local waters. I do remember in Majorca that the yard always recommended a Titan self polishing paint and certainly that worked well on my boat

Mike, aside from gathering other info that people might be interested in, I'm keen to establish it there's an eroding A/F that will last me for two years (I remember being told that eroding A/F was no good for fast boats when I had my old Targa). Also, whether mid season pressure washing should be avoided with a self eroding A/F as the yard guys seem to be suggesting this be avoided.

I also need a much better solution for the drives than I have at present or I accept that fact that the boat will need a £100 lift and scrub every few months of on use).

As you say, local knowledge is valuable too (although a yard may not recommend a paint that will last two seasons if it will do them out of work).

 

[BruceK]

If you find a AF for drives that works for barnacles / shellfish please scream it from the rooftops!

 

[MapisM]

If you find a AF for drives that works for barnacles / shellfish please scream it from the rooftops!

In my experience, Velox Plus from Marlin Yacht Paints does work pretty well. If you can make it stick, that is.
In fact, I believe that part or the reason why it worked very well on all the u/w gear in my previous boat (props included) is her speed - i.e. lack of.
Actually, my yard told me that it's pretty decent also on P boats, but no first have experience (yet).
Deleted User, do you possibly remember how did your boat fare with that during your time in CF? Pretty sure they used the same stuff.
Besides, I half remember that someone in SCM (Whiteligher?) was thinking to try some silicone-based foul release paint on the metal bits.
I'd be curious to hear about that, too.

 

[wellf100]

In my experience, Velox Plus from Marlin Yacht Paints does work pretty well. If you can make it stick, that is.
In fact, I believe that part or the reason why it worked very well on all the u/w gear in my previous boat (props included) is her speed - i.e. lack of.
Actually, my yard told me that it's pretty decent also on P boats, but no first have experience (yet).
Deleted User, do you possibly remember how did your boat fare with that during your time in CF? Pretty sure they used the same stuff.
Besides, I half remember that someone in SCM (Whiteligher?) was thinking to try some silicone-based foul release paint on the metal bits.
I'd be curious to hear about that, too.

Hi MapisM, the US parent company of Aquamarine who made the silicon foul release products went bust recently and took all their subsidiaries with them so you can no longer buy any of the Aquamarine products. A shame as it's one less option and the Propcote stuff looked promising.

 

[BruceK]

Thank you. I will try that. I see I will have to remove all other paint first and prime the drive. It may have to be at the end of the season when the drives next come off.

 

[rafiki_]

Mike, aside from gathering other info that people might be interested in, I'm keen to establish it there's an eroding A/F that will last me for two years (I remember being told that eroding A/F was no good for fast boats when I had my old Targa). Also, whether mid season pressure washing should be avoided with a self eroding A/F as the yard guys seem to be suggesting this be avoided.

I also need a much better solution for the drives than I have at present or I accept that fact that the boat will need a £100 lift and scrub every few months of on use).

As you say, local knowledge is valuable too (although a yard may not recommend a paint that will last two seasons if it will do them out of work).

Pete, until this season I have used Hemel Tiger Extra eroding a/f. I understand this to work up to mid 20’s kn. While Rafiki is quite capable of high 20’s, I very seldom take her there, being happy to cruise at 18-20 kn or potter at 8-10, depending on my need for speed, or tide and timing issues. Eroding means slightly less build up over time. Others have advocated 2 years between coats, but I have been more comfortable with the annual coating. This is all off now, and Rafiki has a clean pallet for the CC to be applied.
I use the TK sterngear spray on a/f. I can’t really say this has any value other than making me think I am at least trying. In the warmer months, tube worm can be a real problem, and this has to be scraped off. Can cost me 10kn in speed, and a really dirty transom!

 

[Dorset Dan]

Pete, the chap that anti-fouled your T34 whilst ashore at Hythe last summer was Nick Webb (http://nickwebb.eu/) - worth a message I'd say as chances are he might remember.

 

[petem]

Pete, the chap that anti-fouled your T34 whilst ashore at Hythe last summer was Nick Webb (http://nickwebb.eu/) - worth a message I'd say as chances are he might remember.

Hi Dan, I've actually just heard back from James Dickens and he confirms (via Nick) that it was Hempel Hard Racing. Questions is, will that last two seasons?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Hi Dan, I've actually just heard back from James Dickens and he confirms (via Nick) that it was Hempel Hard Racing. Questions is, will that last two seasons?

Given that a lift in SC is so cheap, and actually doing the antifoul is so quick - you could just not bother until it is obviously not working (ie when after a 30 knot blast round the bay, the hull is still fouled) and then you'd have your answer.

And if it is only £100 a lift at SC then for the outdrives, I'd be lifting and pressure-washing the outdrives (only) every time I was coming down to actually take the boat out somewhere.

 

[Hurricane]

Just adding to Jimmy's point - I agree.

But........

About 2 years ago, the main pressure washer at SC broke down.
They had money in the budget for a new one so the upgraded the whole system.
The result is that we have a VERY powerful pressure washer which could wash off any soft antifoul within the season (CC doesn't wash off!! )
The advantage is that it does get the barnacles off quickly ans leaves you with a very nice clean boat.

But, taking Jimmy's point, if you are happy that the a/f is still there and working, why not see how it goes this season and pay the £100 every now and then to wash off.
It is always nice to swim with a clean boat anyway.
The lift charge would be recovered in fuel alone.
Over the last 6 or 7 seasons, I've been using that concept with the props anyway.

Thats the way I look at it.

I believe that some people instruct the marina to lift and wash their boats before they arrive.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mike, aside from gathering other info that people might be interested in, I'm keen to establish it there's an eroding A/F that will last me for two years (I remember being told that eroding A/F was no good for fast boats when I had my old Targa). Also, whether mid season pressure washing should be avoided with a self eroding A/F as the yard guys seem to be suggesting this be avoided.

Pete, I did go 2 seasons in Majorca and I believe the yard used a Titan Yate eroding antifoul. Sorry can't give you the exact paint code. Surely your best bet is to ask around in SC because the locals always know what works best in their neighbourhood