dom
Well-Known Member
A friend of mine who is a surgeon illustrates your point- she takes great care not to get silly cuts, for they take ages to heal with all that washing and sting like crazy!
Another RNLI Boat Out of Use
- Thread starter awol
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A friend of mine who is a surgeon illustrates your point- she takes great care not to get silly cuts, for they take ages to heal with all that washing and sting like crazy!
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Never use Teak Wonder brightener (acid of some sort) without wearing goves as you will discover a multitude of tiny cuts and punctures you never knew you had. Been there, done that. Ouch.
Bru
Well-Known Member
That's exactly right .... which is why I raised it.
We will never be able to agree on these matters because you thank God for the Nanny State and I say that it has gone too far and, in the event of an accident or similar, people like you should be prepared to accept personal responsibility for their own stupidity/laziness/inattentiveness/recklessness (delete as appropriate).
Some forumites will be even more Nanny State than you, and some will be even less Nanny State than me. Thus it ever was.
Richard
You make the erroneous assumption that Health and Safety legislation and procedures somehow remove personal responsibility. Quite the opposite is in fact the case. There is considerable emphasis on personal responsibility both for one's own safety and the safety of others
However, what employers etc. cannot do is abrogate their responsibilities by saying it's a personal responsibility
(This should not be confused with the "blame somebody else and sue them" culture arising from permitting "no win, no fee" legal representation)
Drat, I wasn't intending that one to be taken seriously!!!
As a guitar player, likewise. A minor cut can mean no guitar for a week or more (very awkward in the days when I was gigging for money)
RichardS
N/A
No I do not. I am professionally qualified in health and safety.
I keep telling you that we will never agree. I don't understand why you cannot accept that.
Richard
Bru
Well-Known Member
No I do not. I am professionally qualified in health and safety.
I keep telling you that we will never agree. I don't understand why you cannot accept that.
Richard
Because...
In response to the first paragraph, you astonish me because ...
In response to the second paragraph you keep posting total nonsense and exhibiting both a lack of understanding of health and safety and a cavalier attitude towards it
RichardS
N/A
I'm really sorry Bru .... you're just going to have to accept that you welcome the advance of Nanny State whereas I want to push it back. I think you are posting Nanny State total nonsense and you think that I'm posting laissez-faire total nonsense.
You'll have to grow up and learn to deal with difference. :encouragement:
Richard
Bru
Well-Known Member
So, having failed to come up with an even vaguely sensible response to, for example, my shooting down in flames your nonsense about stepladders with the cold hard facts, your to mention refuting your nonsense about lifting weights over 10kg with a real world example of the risks, you now resort to suggesting that I'm not grown up!
If anybody needs to grow up here it isn't me, it's you
Let's see some cogent reasoned argument, backed up by facts, to support your position hmmm?
RichardS
N/A
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Which is why, I am told, every aspiring Chartered Engineer is asked at their interview "Who is responsible for health and safety in your organisation?" and can expect problems for any answer other than "Everyone".
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
Are you saying it's wrong to show someone how to avoid getting cut? A strange attitude which, if nothing else, results in blood ruining a lot of documents in my experience. I was shown how to avoid paper cuts by my father in the 1960's (he was a GI in the Royal navy during WWII, served in both Arctic convoys and the Far East and had a very different concept of acceptable hazards to parents today). He also showed me how to avoid cuts when working with sheet steel, some what less successfully. I had no idea I had an over-protective parent.
Bru
Well-Known Member
How old are you exactly ..... serious question.
Ans the relevance of your question?
Still unable to come up with a cogent reasoned argument are we?
Continuing to fall back on the good old standby of "attack the messenger if you can't attack the message" then?
I am, for what it's worth, in my late fifties.
I've worked in heavy industry, light industry, the entertainment industry, the haulage industry and in retail at every level from apprentice through shop floor worker to managing director (I'd like say I've had an interesting career, others might describe it as "chequered" :nonchalance
and that is not bullshit, I'll put up my full CV if necesaryI have witnessed industrial accidents, I have HAD industrial accidents. I'll put up a full list with full details if necessary
Have you worked in a heavy machine shop? A press shop? A paint shop? A carpentry shop? (I have, one of the joys of a proper apprenticeship). Have you worked in an electrical test bay on live equipment with 415v 3 phase, 240v AC and 120v DC exposed conductors where one, ONE, momentary lapse of attention or wrong move will kill YOU. Dead. I have
You are wrong on this. Potentially, if you, the gods help us, are in a position of responsibility and take your attitudes posted on here into your workplace, criminally wrong
So either give up and retire from the field or put up a good case for your position. If you can which I rather doubt.
dom
Well-Known Member
RichardS
N/A
OK ... you're older than I suspected. Fair enough.
Funny you should say the above .... but have a look at this photo of my own workshop:
I collected that new lift in 5 separate pieces from the manufacturer a couple of weeks ago and assembled it in the workshop on my own. The total weight of the lift is 760kg and the vertical column alone, which is 2.5m high, weighs 380kg and I had to raise it from the horizontal to the vertical on the base and then bolt it into place, all without a crane or a lift truck.
Now that's what I call "manual handling" .... and I'm still alive to tell the tale. :encouragement:
But we're still never going to agree on Nanny State although I've given up hope that you will ever accept that.
Richard
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penberth3
Well-Known Member
OK ... you're older than I suspected. Fair enough.
Funny you should say the above .... but have a look at this photo of my own workshop:
A photo that speaks a thousand words.
RichardS
N/A
Errrr ..... no. It speaks only six:
"Greatest DIY car mechanic in Christendom"
Richard
awol
Well-Known Member
Errrr ..... no. It speaks only six:
"Greatest DIY car mechanic in Christendom"
Richard
I thought you were in the Midlands?
As the OP of this thread I have watched with interest as it turned into a wall pissing contest for H&S "experts". The garage photo shows a space which may be acceptable to a single non-commercial user but if it was a real business instead of a hobby-shop I would not want my vehicle there.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
My ignorance presumably comes from the initials after my name .... which signify my possession of one of the highest professional H & S qualifications in the UK.
That'll be a NEBOSH Diploma, then?
RichardS
N/A
RichardS
N/A
I appreciate that it's difficult to believe at times, but the teachings of Our Lord, Jesus Christ did actually make it to the Midlands.
It's certainly not been a pissing contest as far as I'm concerned as I've only ever referred to two tiny aspects of the UK H & S legislation which, almost in its entirety, is fine law-making and an excellent example to the rest of the world. I've tried several times to move the discussion away from these two tiny aspects by suggesting that not everyone will agree with me, and that's fine ... but others seem unable to accept that.
The garage is, as I thought I made clear, my own DIY garage although both I and my Son sometimes do work for family and friends on a non-profit basis. However, although I am a hobbyist, there is absolutely no job that I cannot undertake apart from welding.
The car which is on the lift today is a Mondeo, from which I have removed the entire rear end. Subframe, suspension arms, shocks, link arms, hubs, hydraulics .... all off. It's a tough job .... but someone's gotta do it.
Richard
PS With over 6000 views and climbing, it's certainly been a big hitting thread so congratulations on starting it. :encouragement:
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D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
RichardS I had a perception that your were a solicitor or some other legal thingamabob, but you are an HSE Tech! Both spawns of Satan! I am just jesting.
I actually think there is more of an agreement in the thread regarding nanny sate, lack of, than full on nanny state. It appears everyone agrees that personal responsibility is the name of the game. It's a tough call trying to change peoples way of working and making more rules and regulations is not the way to do this.
I am just jesting.I actually think there is more of an agreement in the thread regarding nanny sate, lack of, than full on nanny state. It appears everyone agrees that personal responsibility is the name of the game. It's a tough call trying to change peoples way of working and making more rules and regulations is not the way to do this.
