Another Anchor thread :O but its simple (hopefully)

Cactus Sailing

Cactus Sailing

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I have a CQR (or what i believe to be a CQR)

for reference - our boat is 30ft

so this is just a 2 part question.

1. how do i know its a CQR if there is no paperwork... it came with the boat and inspecting it; there is the weight on the size but no other branding / marks i can obviously see on a quick look

2. the "CQR" is 16kg, so if i were to replace it with say... a Delta it recommends a 10kg which would be alot easier to hand ball up (no windlass) so this even looks attractive just to make our lives easier as an "upgrade" or if i replaced with a delta should it be weight for weight i.e. a 16kg one?

9UN9v5C.png
 
Not simple !!
After my 'Danforth' got bent I went and purchased a 10Kg galvanised Delta which seems to work well on my 9m Cat. As it looks small on the front end I'm am wondering about a 16Kg Delta or a Ronca / Vulcan. The Delta is a lot cheaper which may make my choice for me.
 
Cactus Sailing said:
I have a CQR (or what i believe to be a CQR)

for reference - our boat is 30ft

so this is just a 2 part question.

1. how do i know its a CQR if there is no paperwork... it came with the boat and inspecting it; there is the weight on the size but no other branding / marks i can obviously see on a quick look

2. the "CQR" is 16kg, so if i were to replace it with say... a Delta it recommends a 10kg which would be alot easier to hand ball up (no windlass) so this even looks attractive just to make our lives easier as an "upgrade" or if i replaced with a delta should it be weight for weight i.e. a 16kg one?

9UN9v5C.png
Click to expand...

If it is a genuine CQR, it will have Made in Scotland, CQR and the weight cast into the shank. If yours doesn't have that, it is almost certainly a copy.

We anchored our Sadler 29 securely with a 10 kg Delta on many occasions, but it was never tested in a big blow. We then upgraded to a 10 kg Rocna, which was easier to set, and seemed very secure, but again was never tested in a big blow. In conclusion, a 10 kg Delta will be fine for your boat in most conditions, but if you are anchored in a storm, you won't regret having a bigger or better holding anchor. Oh, and another thing I did, to make hand recovery easier, was to use 7 mm Grade 40 chain - this was significantly lighter than the standard 8 mm chain which came with the boat, and is as Rocna recommend for their 10 kg hook.
 
If it is a genuine CQR it will have more raised lettering than just the size. See the photo below.

I would not trust the Lewmar sizing recommendations. There is a great temptation for manufacturers to recommend very small anchors. It makes the anchor sound very efficient, and helps OEM sales.

Rocna and Mantus sizing tables are more realistic. For a cruising boat I would not choose a Delta that was smaller than the Rocna//Mantus sizing tables are recommending.

LgjSMAb.jpg
 
noelex said:
If it is a genuine CQR it will have more raised lettering than just the size. See the photo below.

I would not trust the Lewmar sizing recommendations. There is a great temptation for manufacturers to recommend very small anchors. It makes the anchor sound very efficient, and helps OEM sales.

Rocna and Mantus sizing tables are more realistic. For a cruising boat I would not choose a Delta that was smaller than the Rocna//Mantus sizing tables are recommending.

LgjSMAb.jpg
Click to expand...

Agree agree agree
 
Kwik Decision said:
If it is a genuine CQR, it will have Made in Scotland, CQR and the weight cast into the shank. If yours doesn't have that, it is almost certainly a copy.
Click to expand...

It's a wee bit more complicated. I think the early ones have a patent number, the Simpson-Lawrence ones have "Made in Scotland" and the Lewmar ones have the patent again. All have the weight, which should be whole pounds. Fractional ones (like "24 1/2lb") are authentic, but cast instead of forged.

If the OP let's us know what his says we should be able to establish whether its genuine.
 
As JD says if the weight is in kgs, which is what you imply, unless you weighed it then its not a genuine CQR.

What you do not define is why you want to change it. There is a suggestion that you are not keen on lifting 16kg by hand and the fact you are looking at a Delta suggests to me you are looking for something cheap.

Sadly, cheap, light and something that performs are, almost, mutually exclusive.

You might be able to save weight by reducing the length and size of the chain you use.

Possibly the cheapest reasonable anchor you could source would be a Kobra, a number of people on this forum use it with success (just watch its shank which is a bit whimpy). After that the price of Rocna, Supreme, Knox, Spade are similarly high (some slight differences), weight for weight). If you only anchor out in fair weather I'd ignore the advice of going for a 15kg anchor and look at something a bit lighter - and a Knox offers lighter weight and good hold. If you intend cruising to Scotland's outer isles I would cary my 'CQR' as a spare, second anchor, and still stick with the new lighter primary - as the number of times you might need the extra hold (assuming you listen to weather forecasts) will be few and far between. Hauling in the extra weight when you only anchor in fair winds will only discourage you from anchoring.

If you find a cheap Fortress on eBay - it would neatly replace the CQR as a second anchor.

And remember - anchor threads instil a huge fear factor (being based on the idea everyone anchors in Patagonia) - just think back on the number of times you have been caught out by the weather, when at anchor. Be cautious but don't succumb to the terror tactics!

Jonathan

Edit,

We used a 20lb genuine CQR, its embossed into the shank, with patent no, on our X-99 without issue in the late 80's (even before Fortress and Spade). We had to leave it for 4 weeks in San Fernando, sheltered by the offshore reef but exposed to anything the South China Sea could offer, and overnighted at either end of HK (we had to work) for some weekends.

We still have the same CQR - its a dust collector and foot hazard, along with a variety of other anchors

close edit

This is not too long, yet

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/re-anchoring-just-before-dark-204345.html
 
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JumbleDuck said:
It's a wee bit more complicated. I think the early ones have a patent number, the Simpson-Lawrence ones have "Made in Scotland" and the Lewmar ones have the patent again. All have the weight, which should be whole pounds. Fractional ones (like "24 1/2lb") are authentic, but cast instead of forged.

If the OP let's us know what his says we should be able to establish whether its genuine.
Click to expand...

mine does have pounds on it but i think it also has KG (not 100% sure ill check - not at the boat until the w/e) in raised letters. i.e. like this lbs/kg

but the connecting eye also looks suspisious the more i look at CQRs i.e. genuine

attachment.php


and mine looks more like the eye on this one (which is fake or "CQR style")

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for clarity i only want to change it if its not genuine, while im at it i may aswell get a "modern" one but replacing a 16kg with a 16kg will do us no harm it seams and means i definitely will sleep at night :)
 
You don't say where you are anchoring and what sort of bottom etc.

I agree with neeves - lots of terrorist activity on anchor threads. For 30 years I had no problems with a CQR anchoring in poole Harbour and solent mud plus the odd trip to the CIs and N France to sample sandy bottoms. However once I started sailing in the Med with hard shale seabeds, weed and rocks when the CQR suddenly became useless. Changed to a 16kg Delta (37' boat) and anchoring transformed.

New boat (33') has 10kg delta (factory fit) and performs perfectly in mud and sandy seabeds and if Med experience is anything to go by in a wider range.

Remember most of the contributors to anchor threads anchor more times in a year than you will in a lifetime in conditions that you may never experience in the same lifetime. The anchors they suggest will perform well but at a cost and way above anything you will experience.

So 10kg Delta on 7mm chain would be my choice.
 
I've used a CQR cast copy, that came with the boat, for 9 years, until the shank fractured during a blow in a Spanish port.
This was a blessing, as the replacement 25lb CQR was a far superior replacement, though how well you were anchored was very dependent on technique, requiring about one boat length to set.
That anchor finally wore out (the pin joint enlarges and setting becomes dodgy). I finally replaced the anchor with a 25kg Mantus (I suspect the others such as the Spade, Rocna and Ultra are indistinguishable in performance if not in price). My kedges are a Delta, SWMF Danforth and a Fortress.
The Mantus sets in about 3m reverse, digs into any soft substrate and resets easily. Its good for 42 knots constant, on a 5:1 scope. In soft substrates it only just beats the Danforth, but resets better. The Fortress is as good as the Danforth, much lighter. The Delta is as good as the CQR was, but easier to stow.
Choice of anchor has to be down to the composition of the sea-floor, (round Bardsey a grapnel or fisherman has to be favourite, in Alvor the largest fluke area anchor is key).
Certainly the Delta is probably the world's favourite anchor - it's cheapest and thus standard on all AWBs - weight is, IMHO, a fallible guide, my F11 weighs half the Danforth and has almost the same fluke area and holds as well. The Mantus @ 25lbs has nearly twice the fluke area, but is a bugger to stow, compared to the 25lb CQR it sets and re-sets better, is less of a finger-breaker.
In the final analysis it's the cost which is the critical factor - ruling out Spade (expensive production), Rocnor (high margin), Ultra (tariff bars) and Knox.
The only anchor I find lacking in performance is the claw - but there are few genuine Bruces left around.
Boat 9.5m x 2500kg x sailboat - anchored about 100 times a season, been sailing in this boat for 28 years, Western Approaches, Biscay and Med From W to E.
 
On my previous boat I replaced a 25lb CQR copy with a 10kg Delta because the old anchor was going rusty. The Delta was fine except for one particular location with very soft mud where it dragged a couple of time. Fortunately I had a 7.5kg genuine Bruce anchor as a kedge and used that in the soft stuff very effectively.
 
Charles,

Useful summary

Can you clarify 2 points

1 You retired a 25lb CQR which you replaced with a 25kg Mantus - but later in the script you mention a Mantus @ 25lb. I'm assuming the kg are an error?? as a 25kg anchor for a 9.5m x 2500kg yacht is 'generous' - though 25kg would be supported by many.

2 This might reflect my geographic isolation but what do you mean by 'Ultra (tariff bar)' - not relevant to technical performance - so an academic question

and confirm the Danforth weight

Thanks

Jonathan
 
Are people sure that these anchors are ‘factory fit’? It’s been my experience that anchors are dealer fitted, which should in theory mean they are suited to local conditions
 
On new AWBs and being cynical the anchors are chosen on how well they fit the wallet, not the seabed. If new yachts at boat shows are in any way typical then I hope the choice of anchor, sometimes supplied by the dealer sometimes by the boat builder, is in no way a reflection of their attention to detail. If you probe the dealer will say they will change (and charge) the anchor on request of the new owner - it is indicative of the focus of the new owner that this very seldom occurs,

My same comment would be made of charter operators, who I really do NOT understand. I would have thought they would go out of their way to ensure the charter party has as carefree a week (or fortnight) holiday as possible and try to maximise the pleasure of of being at anchor. My guess is - one bad experience - and they will not come back

As, independently, mentioned by a cross section of users CQRs, Delta, Bruce can be used, are being used. with safety - but the new designs are so much more idiot proof (which is one reason I like them). Obviously each of these anchors has a seabed in which they are more secure and seabeds in which they less secure (but not necessarily insecure) - as with any anchor

Jonathan
 
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