Angels; you don't hear much about them these days.

Knowing the condition of a mooring is the clue there; I remember picking up a mooring in Bosham Channel ( not exactly a high stress area, and OK to do so if staying aboard ) - and found the chain was worn so thin I wouldn't trust it for a wristwatch, so promptly shuffled along to another one - but if it had blown a hoolie I still wouldn't know what the condition was lower down, or what the sinker consisted of...
 
NormanS said:
Well, obviously it depends on your type of sailing, and where you sail, but as you say that you were anchored off Kerrera, I assume that you sail, at least sometimes, on the West Coast. 38 knots is by no means exceptional weather there. Visitor moorings are not that plentiful, cannot be reserved in advance, are sometimes totally inappropriate in the wind direction, (think of Castlebay or Arinagour), and so you have to be able to rely on your ground tackle, and your ability to use it, and your intelligence to choose an appropriate anchorage, in whatever the weather gods throw at you.

I do find it pathetic that people would rather pay good money to use a mooring, whose condition is entirely unknown to them, rather than using their own gear, which can be checked every time it is used.

Which of the several bays of Kerrera were you anchored in, and what was the wind direction?
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The type of sailing I do is put the sails up and keep heading North until I run out of land and there's only open ocean ahead. Is there any other kind? I do almost all of my sailing on the West Coast of Scotland - just back from a 3 month trip ranging from Kircudbright to North Rona.

I was anchored here, right in the middle of the 'O' in a wind from the SW...

http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=182585&Y=730215&A=Y&Z=120

I do not choose to anchor out if a gale is forecast, wherever I am, if there are other options available. I will always choose what I think is the safest option for my boat if there's a gale coming. I find that I sleep much better when being pathetic. I expect 99% of other boaters would do the same in the same situation. You probably think that they are all pathetic too.
 
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Seajet said:
Knowing the condition of a mooring is the clue there; I remember picking up a mooring in Bosham Channel ( not exactly a high stress area, and OK to do so if staying aboard ) - and found the chain was worn so thin I wouldn't trust it for a wristwatch, so promptly shuffled along to another one - but if it had blown a hoolie I still wouldn't know what the condition was lower down, or what the sinker consisted of...
Click to expand...

In the top half of the country there's an annual freebie publication called Welcome Anchorages. It lists moorings, harbours and marinas and is updated annually. To get an appearance in it mooring owners must prove that their moorings are maintained and insured. I don't pick up random unknown moorings.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
... To get an appearance in it mooring owners must prove that their moorings are maintained and insured. ....
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I never knew that, that's good to know. Do they state this in the publication?
 
NormanS said:
Yes, I've heard people who don't trust their own ground tackle, saying, "Oh, I was alright, I was on a mooring".
Pathetic.
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Let me be the first to sign up, as a proud, card-carrying, lifelong member of the "pathetic" contingent in that case.

My "ground tackle" (anchor and chain in plain English) came with the boat and I cobbled it together as best I could, 60 metres of 10 mil and a 10kg Bruce.

What anchor should I buy for Brittany, I was thinking of a 20kg Delta?

(bearing in mind my boat has an old but sturdy manual winch with a 10 mm gyppo)
 
"I do find it pathetic that people would rather pay good money to use a mooring, whose condition is entirely unknown to them, rather than using their own gear, which can be checked every time it is used."

Whilst disliking NormanS' use of the adjective 'pathetic', I do feel there's some validity to the sentiment of his post; bearing in mind that we too are card carrying members of the pathetic squadron. If the weather's likely to cut up rough, there's no finer place to be than the very furthest/deepest corner of a well sheltered harbour - despite the fact that we don't do reverse, so it'll be a bugger to get back out of afterwards! We've spent many a night on those blue Highlands & Islands Buoys in the west of Scotland (I believe they're gone/no longer maintained now?) and we've just spent most of the last month on a buoy in Titusville, Florida - Owned, insured and checked every 3 months by the municipality; rated to 'hold a 60' motor-yacht in 100knot winds'. But it's never failed to amaze me over the years, the number of seemingly otherwise intelligent people who've chosen to use a buoy of unknown provenance rather than their own anchor. Perhaps the worst place for this insanity was at Bequia in the Grenadines, where the mooring buoys are not even of an 'unknown provenance'; when you go into the Customs/immigration Office to check-in, there are large and prominent signs, which very politely advise that 'all of the moorings in the bay are privately owned, illegal, uninsured and most are also unmaintained and unsafe', but they're still predominantly full every night and oversubscribed (their price goes up markedly) whenever stronger winds are forecast. Whilst these buoys offer no better weather protection than the adjacent anchorage, which is shallow/clean sand/good holding, they are admittedly a few hundred metres nearer to the bars and restaurants, but that's their only advantage. We've sat there through several spells of rough weather and seen more than a few yachts drag their anchors, but we've seen far (4-5x?) more get into trouble using the buoys. Most often their pick-up lines have the decency to break/let go, but on several occasions a larger yacht has drifted away taking the undersized mooring weight/anchor along with it, at which juncture, on more than one occasion we've seen the buoy's owner berate the skipper for moving his mooring and demand recompense for the cost of returning/resetting it back where it was; thankfully I've never seen a skipper daft enough to actually pay!
 
lw395 said:
Can be useful with a rope rode, worth trying in shifty or sloppy conditions sometimes.
If other boats are lying to chain, a kellet can help fit in to a crowded anchorage.
If your rope rode is not very stretchy, a kellet may improve the motion at anchor, if you have a light boat that is jerked about by gusts or swell.
Also can reduce peak loads on the anchor in waves.

Not magic, but can help sometimes, IMHO and IME.
I used 10 or 20kg of scrap lead or dive weights.


Of course buying a better anchor, a windlass and 60m of chain is a good option if you can justify the weight and cost.
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My experience is different, using a rope rode. If anything the use of the angel increased the loads on the anchor in gusty winds.

As a gust hit, the line was pulled taught. As the gust eased the angel dropped to the bottom, pulling the rode vertical and pulling the boat forward.

When the next gust hit, the boat was several boat lengths further forward than it would have been without the angel. So the boat had the room to gather speed as the gust carried it back, before the anchor bit. There was no difference in angle of attack at the peak loads, and the peak loads were higher because of the angel. It was the most uncomfortable night I have ever had at anchor.

Looking back I could have done a few things differently, but that night made me conclude that angels have no benefit when using a rope rode, and potentially increase the peak loads when the gust hits. Never again.
 
If the angel was hitting the seabed, may I suggest you had set it too low ?

I usually have the angel halfway along the rode, but wouldn't want it dragging around or sitting on the bottom, where it might adversely affect the swinging circle - relative to other boats - or even snag and give one effectively a rode half the scope.

I only normally use the angel ( a folded grapnel ) if anchoring overnight, but can think of one occasion when it seemed to save us from dragging in quite severe weather.
 
Seajet said:
If the angel was hitting the seabed, may I suggest you had set it too low ?

I usually have the angel halfway along the rode, but wouldn't want it dragging around or sitting on the bottom, where it might adversely affect the swinging circle - relative to other boats - or even snag and give one effectively a rode half the scope.

I only normally use the angel ( a folded grapnel ) if anchoring overnight, but can think of one occasion when it seemed to save us from dragging in quite severe weather.
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Just because you put the angel there and you didn't drag doesn't mean that you would have dragged if you had not put it there.

The sums just don't add up for an angel to do anything useful when the gale comes in. Force in the anchor rode, let's take the maximum dynamic load as a worst case - 10 kN for a moderate sized boat in a hoolie (see ref). Force the angel is exerting on the rode to modify its angle - 50 N, or 0.5%. It's not going to make any measurable difference. The extra 5kg would be much better in the anchor.

http://mantusanchors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/anchor_load_revealed.pdf
 
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The whole point of an angel is to change the angle of the chain pull so it's pulling the anchor horizontally rather than up. A smallish weight pulling at 90 degrees on a long chain will have a huge impact. That's why you can sweat mooring lines on 300 ton boats. Incidentally (some connection) allspars have started selling these http://www.technicalmarinesupplies.co.uk/brands/anchor-buddy/
No idea whether they are any good.
 
Seajet said:
If the angel was hitting the seabed, may I suggest you had set it too low ?

I usually have the angel halfway along the rode, but wouldn't want it dragging around or sitting on the bottom, where it might adversely affect the swinging circle - relative to other boats - or even snag and give one effectively a rode half the scope.

I only normally use the angel ( a folded grapnel ) if anchoring overnight, but can think of one occasion when it seemed to save us from dragging in quite severe weather.
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You may suggest that, but I think the reverse is true. Setting it closer to the anchor would have meant it hit the seabed earlier and stopped pulling the boat forward.

But as I say, never again. The calculations showing they are effectively useless on chain just confirm that.
 
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